one more time on the BG quick clean routine.....

[3Q Jay]

this is planned for Monday afternoon.

existing symptoms: VH45DE with 1147xx miles. owned since 101k, continuous diet of M1 0W40 every 4 to 5.5 mos and 3000 miles since purchase. had ds valve cover off in late feb, and it looks like this (the M1 had been in service for 41 days and 762 miles when photo taken):



problem is that i have what believe to be lifter (okay HLA) tick when engine is cold. now, i don't idle it for 5 minutes before putting in gear, but i'm more conservative than most: at least 15 seconds in park idling for oilpress stability often 30sec if ambient is below 65°F, low manifold pressure and usually manual shifting until 10 minute mark. never more than 3500 until 10 minutes.the tick is loudest at about 1700-2000, and after about 5 minutes (sometimes a bit more) it is gone.Have done 2 recent UOAs, and all wear metals, insolubles, viscosity and flashpoint are 'good' (i can post spearate if anyone is really curious). so i don't think it's a rod bearing or the engine on it's way to the grave.

Here's my plan: engine has some clean, cheapo walmart supertech 5/30 dino in it and 1 can of BG MOA, with a 55Y00 (usually run the M1-208 to go with the 0w40). Driven about 40 miles with this just to circulate the MOA, no heavy loading. I plan to bring engine to operating temp and then dump in the BG quik clean while idling. bring revs to 2000 in park for 30 minutes and then drain and replace the filter.

some questions: during the 2000 rpm park 'flushing', is it better to 'walk' the revs in slow fashion form 1500-2000-1500-2000, etc?After draining the gook, i'm tentatively planning on another batch of the supertech/MOA just to see how the cold ticking is doing, and to either a)use that for 50 or so miles as a 'rinse' before going to my usual M1 0W40 fill, or b) doing a second quick clean run.

ok, fire away: comments? improvements?

[maxnix]

5-10 min. at below 1500rpm, my opinion. Drain immediately within 3 -5 min. BGQuick Clean is highly volatile. Varnish will redeposit quickly if allowed to cool much. MOA is really more of an oil base extender.

I am a believer in envirolution if a couple of these don't do it. Also look at the high detergent diesel oils for short term use. ATF is pretty much disabused now.
Modified by maxnix at 7:44 AM 5/21/2007

[Q45tech]

Don't be discouraged if the QC doesn't work totally the first time. I have had to do it 3 times in a row before it finally worked.

Sometimes I actually drive with QC in just avoiding above 4,000 rpm ever!!!

11oz in 192oz of oil is only 1/2% dilution of oil............kind of like gasoline in oil from a leaky injector or a bad MAF.

[elwesso]

The thing you want to be sure you do is get the car HOT HOT HOT before you put the quick clean in there.... I didnt do this and I dont think it was as effective had I driven the car for 10-20 mins prior...

Honestly Im not sure why you'd be ticking its probably not due to varnish, that motor is pretty dang clean!

I mirror Tech's comments.. Ross did it on his Q and he did it 3-4 times within a month. I think it might be good way to do it vs doing it once and hoping it does something...

I would do an oil change every week for a month and use quick clean each time. I dont know if you'd have to change the filter each time?

[szh]

I dont know if you'd have to change the filter each time?

Probably a good idea to do this. The filter retains near a quart of oil in there ...

This is relatively inexpensive to do ... could use a cheap filter for a while, since it is getting changed out quickly.

Z

[elwesso]

No way a filter on a G50 holds a quart, maybe 1/2 or 1/3, but your point is valid regardless of the semantics. you could probably pick up a few supertech filters for a couple bucks a piece...

[Q45tech]

If the varnish is in suspension in the oil it's molecules will go right thru the filter media.

Be sure to drain oil hot or it will just coat the oil pan and get back into oil when it heats up.

[szh]

No way a filter on a G50 holds a quart, maybe 1/2 or 1/3, but your point is valid regardless of the semantics. you could probably pick up a few supertech filters for a couple bucks a piece...

You are correct - I should have looked rather than relying on my memory .

It is just over 1/2 quart on my M45 according to the manual (says 5 7/8 qts for oil change with oil filter change and 5 1/4 qt without oil filter change).

Now, the older (larger) G50 filters probably had a bit more than that though.

Regardless, I'd still do the multiple filter changes ...

Z

[elwesso]

I just like getting you whenever I can Z...

[3Q Jay]

thanks guys for the replies and the reminder to drain hot. i had the jack partially under the subframe, so from shutdown to drain plug out was 30 sec.

ran for 25 minutes with the QC in park, consult water temp hovered b/n 181 and 185 the whole time.

still seems to be a bit of a tick, but won't really know until morning when its cold again. more supertech and 55y00, would likely do again next weekend, tech--did you mean 3 immediate back-to-back cycles, or can we do it again in a few days just as effectively?i only have 1 more can of QC for now until Joe ships my backordered stuff.

[maxnix]

thanks guys for the replies and the reminder to drain hot. i had the jack partially under the subframe, so from shutdown to drain plug out was 30 sec.

ran for 25 minutes with the QC in park, consult water temp hovered b/n 181 and 185 the whole time.

still seems to be a bit of a tick, but won't really know until morning when its cold again. more supertech and 55y00, would likely do again next weekend, tech--did you mean 3 immediate back-to-back cycles, or can we do it again in a few days just as effectively?i only have 1 more can of QC for now until Joe ships my backordered stuff.

Yeah, just do it in series and heed Wes' admonition to add Quick Clean to a fully warmed engine. Maybe you can jack it up first? Running a little high detergent in between won't hurt it and may even help.

The one thing that envirolution seems to address that this procedure doesn't is sludge at the bottom of the oil pan.

[3Q Jay]

well guys, let's turn this up a notch.....

status: have done 2 QC cycles 2 weeks apart on warm clean oil. drained the volitile mixture immediately after 25 minute circulation. after second batch ran a 3rd fill of ST 5w30 for 10 miles just to circulate, and then immediately drained and have refilled with R-T-S 5w40. filter changed every time, M1-208 now on to go with the rotella.

noise is still there.

here's some additional data: on cold start-up, very little if any engine noise, even as oil pressure comesup. at 1250 in park, it sounds fine. as it comes down to 1100 in park, still fine, then if i place in gear at that point, i start hearing the tick/soft knock. this is very repeatable: 1000 park, no noise--drop in gear, ~850 noise. back in 'N' noise stops. so, there appears to be some 'load' relation, which doesn't jive in my mind with an HLA (tell me i'm wrong, please).

if it were something wrong on the bottom end though i would think that it would show up in oil analysis. lead and copper are verry low. only nickel seem anomalous at 3ppm on 2 different UOAs.

this is on silver, black is not as noticeable, but maybe in my hyperperceptive state i'm starting to hear something there too.

[maxnix]

Well, dumb question time.

Are you sure it is not the injectors?

[purplesignal]

Have you tried autorx? Many have reported success with it. Just google it. Also the guys on bobistheoilguy.com and other car forums rave over it. I have used it for my sister's camry, and it stopped an oil seal leak as well as oil consumption.

[3Q Jay]

Brian, I'm considering that. certainly the VH45DE does have loud injectors that make some noise. only relation i see to load would be the duty cycle (not a huge change though)--maybe. would certainly be a 'no worries' if it is.one other data point: if i'm in gear at say 950 rpm and i open the door a crack i can hear 'a rhythmic clunk not super loud coming from under the car.my best description would be like a cracked/warped/loose flexplate. i have never hear of this on our cars, however.

[elwesso]

have you ruled out a tiny exhaust leak? I knwo that on older maximas the exhaust manifold gaskets sometimes leak and it would cause something that sounds exactly like lifter tapping. The thing is with your motor as clean as it is I doubt you have clogged HLAs.

[Q45tech]

I wish you would read oil pressure under these conditions so we could see correlations.

13 years of use cannot be fixed in a few weeks without replacing everything.

New HLA will be a nightmare to install easier to just swap heads but then the newish one might be noisey,

Try some 10w40 Valvoline, as a 1 week test...............save 1000 mile Mobil 1 to reinstall if the noise doesn't improve.

[3Q Jay]

thanks Wes and Dennis- good suggestions.i know, i know-- i NEED an oil press gauge. will start a separate thread on that (A-pillar mounts?)also, the exhaust thing did trigger a thought--my EGR tube is a little loose at the lower fitting--i remeber this from when i rootered out the pipe. couldn't get my 15/16 crowfoot on there, will have to buy a stubby wrench, or??? to tighten that nut.

[ceningolmo]

I mirror Tech's comments.. Ross did it on his Q and he did it 3-4 times within a month. I think it might be good way to do it vs doing it once and hoping it does something...

I noticed the biggest difference the oil change following the initial Quick Clean process. My engine was and is noticeably smoother running after the oil changes since doing the Quick Clean process.

[3Q Jay]

Update: I did 2 of these in May/June 2007, and then two more in May 2008. the noise really hasn't changed much. my oil stays quite clean so i do believe all the varnish is gone.in retrospect, when i had the ds vc off in Feb 2007, I wish i had re-ringed and pumped up the hla's. but I'm not really sure that it's HLA. my latest theory is a sticky intake valve. I have run a few cans of 44k, but not for a year or so, and not back to back. why do i think intake valve? i have a small amount of intake vacuum oscillation on a sensitve gauge. (is very flat and stable at 18.5 inch with i suspect a damped cheapo gauge). also, fuel pressure at idle has a needle flutter (only about 1 psi, but noticeable, centered around 38 psig).any opinions on intake valve causing the tick?

[Infinitiguy19]

Do you have any videos of the problem?

Does it sound anything like this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug72wbOq ... eyBEMxROsE

[maxnix]

I will say this. If you have nto looked into the envirolution crankcase flush, you might want to as it will get rid of a lot of slucge in your oil pan.

May not cure your problem immediately, but then the BG Quick Clean and high detergent oils won't have to conted with the sludge, so they make work better 2 or 3 changes down the road.