Old vs New Congress...PayGo vs CutGo

[HashiriyaS14]

CutGo is great until they have to start seriously looking at Medicare/aid and Social Security.

Republicans are, in reality, far more averse to cutting these programs than the average Democrat is because a higher percentage of their electorate is dependent upon them.


Personally, I'm ALL ABOUT IT, but I don't think that they have the stones.

[audtatious]

Someone has to have some stones at some point because we simply can't keep growing Gov and entitlements this way. What happens when 60% of the US population is no longer paying taxes? Will $40k/yr be the new 5% range? How's that going to work?

[bigbadberry3]

Stop trying, thats how, we have moved beyond the layman nation of manufacturing, but we have yet to care about continuing education for the next generation enough to grasp our new role, we dont need to compete for those jobs, let em go, our citizens need to produce more marketability for themselves and acquire a higher up rung on the ladder

So how do you go about this? Everyone says public education sucks (I'd argue that, I'd say parents suck) and if people cry over paying taxes for a school try paying for a private schooling K-12. NCLB is a joke and so is Race to the Top.

[audtatious]

Stop trying, thats how, we have moved beyond the layman nation of manufacturing, but we have yet to care about continuing education for the next generation enough to grasp our new role, we dont need to compete for those jobs, let em go, our citizens need to produce more marketability for themselves and acquire a higher up rung on the ladder

I disagree because I don't think it's possible to successfully shift our whole economy that way. We have done it thus far at the expense of the lower wage earner who used to work manufacturing and is now a non-tax payer or on Gov assistance. I'm all for free trade but not at the point that the scales are tipped FAR away from our favor like it is today. China and other countries have a huge unfair advantage and it needs to end. Tariff the crap out of their products until we can get manufacturing jobs back here in the US. Tell the enviro-whacko's to STFU as well.

[HashiriyaS14]

Someone has to have some stones at some point because we simply can't keep growing Gov and entitlements this way. What happens when 60% of the US population is no longer paying taxes? Will $40k/yr be the new 5% range? How's that going to work?

Ok, peachy. I agree with you 100%. That's not the question though, here's the question:

You really think Boehner and McConnell are going to hack away at these programs?



The problem isn't that Party A or Party B is in charge, the problem is that people like to get things and not pay for it. So long as the majority of the US population isn't feeling any pain from the deficit, they'll ignore it.

The tax/unemployment compromise was a HUGE hit with the American people in aggregate (within certain distance of center-spectrum) because everyone won, we spent ALL the money, and everyone got what they wanted whether we had the cheese to pay for it or not. Whooda thunk it? Give people handouts and they respond positively?

So long as that sort of thinking still wins, as a cause, deficit reduction loses. I don't like it any more than you do. People are idiots.


EDIT: I missed the Protectionism post, that's even better. I'm sure that'll work out great, always did before.

[bigbadberry3]

Someone has to have some stones at some point because we simply can't keep growing Gov and entitlements this way. What happens when 60% of the US population is no longer paying taxes? Will $40k/yr be the new 5% range? How's that going to work?

New Congress should-

Remove troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. They were crappy before, they'll be crappy whether we are there or not.
Cut 11% across the board in all government departments.
Address Social Security cause the baby boomer bomb is about to go off.

If they address one of these in the next 2 years I'll be surprised because we still have career politicians. Set up term limits for Congress.

[audtatious]

So how do you go about this? Everyone says public education sucks (I'd argue that, I'd say parents suck) and if people cry over paying taxes for a school try paying for a private schooling K-12. NCLB is a joke and so is Race to the Top.

Public education does suck. People are too busy trying to make things fair across the board and making children "feel better" about themselves than they care about them learning to read and write. From having to deal with 5 kids going through the public school system it was all about not upsetting the child by holding them back or forcing them to learn. Teachers spend way too much time socializing and pushing homework off on parents who then have to struggle teaching their kids something they have not touched in 20+ years.

You can't blame everything on the parents.

[audtatious]

New Congress should-

Remove troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. They were crappy before, they'll be crappy whether we are there or not.
Cut 11% across the board in all government departments.
Address Social Security cause the baby boomer b0mb is about to go off.

If they address one of these in the next 2 years I'll be surprised because we still have career politicians. Set up term limits for Congress.

I'm fine with that. Not gonna happen tho.

If the GOP really does wade in and attempt to balance the budget and cut the deficit down, yet to be seen, they will meet untold resistance from the progressives as shrinking Gov is totally against their belief system. Screams of racism and "party of the rich" will be in the press and papers daily.

[HashiriyaS14]

If the GOP really does wade in and attempt to balance the budget and cut the deficit down

Let's quantify for a minute exactly what that means.

The ONLY way to accomplish this in any material measure would be to make significant cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. You can only cut military spending so far and there just isn't that much discretionary spending to cut, can't cut interest, etc.

If, over the next two years, your PARTY LEADERS don't throw their weight behind DEEP cuts to these three programs, then they did not "wade in". I'm not talking about Rand Paul, and I'm not talking about whomever your elected rep happens to be. I'm talking about Boehner, Cantor, McConnell, et al.

If this "wading" (as defined in my sentence above) does not occur, then the ONLY reasonable conclusion is that the GOP base electorate doesn't care about the deficit enough to do anything about it. Those "bosses" will act if polls show they have widespread support to make deep cuts to those three programs, but if the polls DON'T show that, then they won't do a thing. This is up to the voters, ultimately.

So, if in two years they haven't filleted these three programs, blame the guys next to you in the GOP primary voting queue.

[bigbadberry3]

Public education does suck. People are too busy trying to make things fair across the board and making children "feel better" about themselves than they care about them learning to read and write. From having to deal with 5 kids going through the public school system it was all about not upsetting the child by holding them back or forcing them to learn. Teachers spend way too much time socializing and pushing homework off on parents who then have to struggle teaching their kids something they have not touched in 20+ years.

You can't blame everything on the parents.

True not everything can be blamed but more frequently than not it is.

Here's a common scenario:

Johnny is failing math.
Teacher is available an hour after school (unpaid) to help struggling students.
Johnny doesn't want to come in because he's busy with football, Xbox, Facebook.
Parents see the grade yell at the teacher for not doing their job.
Teacher gives them options, parents would rather Johnny be happy with his friends and football and do not make Johnny come in for help.
Semester ends, Johnny fails, and is told he will be held back.
Parents call principal/super intendant threatening a lawsuit if Johnny isn't advanced.
Johnny is advanced despite the teachers objections.
All is well until Johnny can't figure out how long it will take to pay off his credit card with interest.

If you think teachers have time to socialize, you are very naive (well maybe gym teachers). As I've stated in other threads, the average teacher works about 6 hours a day in front of the students. By that I mean lecturing, running a lab, interacting with students. The other 2 hours of a teachers day may include attending IEP meetings, tutoring students during off hours, creating worksheets, setting up labs, grading, conversing with parents about students, and more and more.

Teachers will work to the best of their abilities to teach students and not just babysit 150 students but we aren't miracle workers. We can't create each lesson plan to fit every student's individualized needs, but we'll do our best.We can't control if the students have other outside influences affecting their learning mood for the day. We can control our actions towards the students to try and encourage them to learn something, to show them the value of some set of information, but hey, that kid is hungry and all he can think about is Bosco sticks.

Teachers know that somethings are difficult to learn and hope that when your son or daughter does not understand something that they ask a question because that shows they care. I don't care if they ask me, a peer, post on a forum, or ask a parent as long as they do so in the effort to learn something. Why do we have the "I have a question" forum here? Is it because we all understand how a car works 110% the first time we read the FSM's?

/semi-sensible rant

[bigbadberry3]

The Repubs ran hard on cutting down government size and spending, are they now going to choke on those words since they are now the party with the power, hence, the accountable party for the next election?

[HashiriyaS14]

The Repubs ran hard on cutting down government size and spending, are they now going to choke on those words since they are now the party with the power, hence, the accountable party for the next election?

They've been running on those words since the 1980's and they've yet to "choke on them".

[telcoman]

And our a$$h0le governor is after the teachers, other public workers, snow plow drivers.
He couldn't get any of his wealthy friends to man the snow plows. F him

Telcoman

[audtatious]

Let's quantify for a minute exactly what that means.

The ONLY way to accomplish this in any material measure would be to make significant cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. You can only cut military spending so far and there just isn't that much discretionary spending to cut, can't cut interest, etc.

If, over the next two years, your PARTY LEADERS don't throw their weight behind DEEP cuts to these three programs, then they did not "wade in". I'm not talking about Rand Paul, and I'm not talking about whomever your elected rep happens to be. I'm talking about Boehner, Cantor, McConnell, et al.

If this "wading" (as defined in my sentence above) does not occur, then the ONLY reasonable conclusion is that the GOP base electorate doesn't care about the deficit enough to do anything about it. Those "bosses" will act if polls show they have widespread support to make deep cuts to those three programs, but if the polls DON'T show that, then they won't do a thing. This is up to the voters, ultimately.

So, if in two years they haven't filleted these three programs, blame the guys next to you in the GOP primary voting queue.

There is more than those programs but I do agree, something has to happen besides just cuts to military and those are the primary/largest choices.

We both know the "DEEP" cuts you are talking about are not going to come in the next two years. I doubt the GOP will be able to stop most of Obamacare either. Hell, they probably can't even stop the EPA, under Obama, from implementing a little bit of Cap and Trade.

At this point I simply hope the deficit is not any bigger than today.

[audtatious]

And our a$$h0le governor is after the teachers, other public workers, snow plow drivers.
He couldn't get any of his wealthy friends to man the snow plows. F him

Telcoman

I'm about to start removing your posts if you don't keep your comments in tune with the thread.