Okay, engine decisions!

[Buttons06]

Noob here:

Okay, here's the thing - I just got a 1990 S13 SE, still in the process of making it run right after it sitting for a year or more. I'm not sure how long it has actually been sitting but the tags on it expired in 08 so likely quite a while. Anyway, guy who owned it didn't know the solenoid was bad and just never thought to have someone who knew fix it so I got a steal at $1000, plus a little for the basic maintenance stuff on a car that's been sitting (I jacked the starter from my '95 that's got a bad rod bearing and fried rings so at least that was free)

Anyway... I'm curious what I should do.
I'm on a little bit of a budget so i don't want to spend much, but I know boost boy knows his CA's and I'd like a boosted engine capable of about 300-350 rwhp and being pretty reliable. That's a pretty solid idea, but 2 grand for the engine, and another grand for other parts to make more power, just isn't ready for me QUITE yet. I'm still building credit with my bank, and this is the first thing I've even bought on credit. I figure after I pay this off in a few months or so I can pull another loan for the $2000 and grab his engine though :o

Option 2 is to boost the sohc KA and... well I've heard stories about 300+ hp KA's being internally weak, whereas I've heard of CA's being pretty strong. I figure it will cost about the same for the parts needed to get that high in the KA too, but maybe not all at once. Of course I'd want to rebuild it before boosting to be certain I'm not making a weak engine try to do more than it's capable of.

I'm not really sure on much of the KA besides stock specs and all, whereas I've been lurking the CA threads for a while learning what it would take to get one going good (I was planning on putting a CA into my '95 and converting to OBDI - no real enforcement of emissions, etc in my area so I'd be fine). I have an s13 chassis now, with a manual transmission so I wouldn't have to find the s13 clutch system to go in my s14 with the driveshaft and other crap. Plus I love the hatchback body style, and everything works except my driver's side window regulator's gear.

Anyway, off track there. I can't decide because my friend keeps telling me to go KA-T. Any comparisons/suggestions/anything else to help me make a good decision?

Also, pics of new s13

[Chris28]

Don't take a loan out to buy an engine. If you're on a budget you shouldn't be shooting for over 300whp, you should be shooting for reliability.

A CA is 1.8 liters...why anyone would willingly take away .6 liters is beyond me. You also have no idea in what condition the CA you will be receiving is. If it needs to be rebuilt you're looking at another $2k in parts and labor alone. Stick with the KA until you figure out what your budget is, then decide what you want to do. You already have the KA, you might as well boost it.

[Buttons06]

I'd be buying the CA from Boost boy here on nicoclub if I opt for that. He rebuilds them and sells them and helps people with their CA projects. I'm sure enough people have got help from him on their CA's and he's probably sold enough of them and/or parts for them that he can be trusted. I'm not worried about labor costs either tbh. Putting it in isn't hard, and I can handle the wiring part as well.

[Chris28]

Sounds like you're set on a CA then. You might not have issues with it while running it stock, but with power output double what stock is you're going to run into issues sooner or later. Granted you would have the same issues with a KA, but there's a lot more support out there for the KA than there is for the CA.

Plus you're still losing over a half a liter of displacement.

[Buttons06]

I'm not set really, just talked to him some and asked him about it and all. I've just done more research on the CA than boosting the KA. Curious what kind of cost boosting the sohc KA would take for my hp goal. I'd have to find a turbo setup, rebuild, tune, and maybe put some stronger internals in, but it's still an option. For the CA I wouldn't have to do a whole lot since it's already rebuilt. Find a t28 turbo that bolts onto the stock manifold, larger injectors, z32 MAF, and tune it for a pretty good boost in hp. For the KA, I'd have to do more work (excluding the swap and rewiring) but if it ends up at approximately the same, I sure wouldn't complain. I'm mainly aiming to build something to compete with my roommate's cobra in the pic, and still get me back and forth to work.

Oh and one thing going for the KA is I already have a spare engine from my '95. It's got a bad rod bearing and rings, but nothing that can't be fixed. I could set that up as a project engine and boost it and then put it in instead of ordering the CA or having my s13 on downtime while I work on the sohc engine.

[Chris28]

You'd be able to reach your power goal with the KA for much less than it would cost to make it with a CA. Depending on the state of your KA, $2000 will get you a practically bulletproof setup that will make 300whp easily. It can be done for much cheaper than that, but for reliability's sake you don't want to cheap out on anything. No matter how you go about it, sticking with the KA is the cheaper way to your power goals.

Now at the power levels you're looking at you're going to need to have a rebuild plan in the back of your mind no matter which motor you choose. You could use the money being spent on the CA to build your spare KA with forged internals and then boost that, then it'd be more reliable than a stock CA and make a lot more power.

Clean car btw, it looks like a great start to any build.

[Buttons06]

I guess I should figure out which KA I'd boost. If I decided to build my DOHC engine, I'd probably just want to take the wiring harness ECU and everything else from the s14 and convert my s13 to OBDII along with it, and I'm not sure how meticulous a task that would be. Guess then I could sell the sohc engine or something once I get that one in. idk if the SOHC is any worse or better than the DOHC boosted. I read that the SOHC doesn't breathe as well, but that's not really an issue so... they seem pretty even.

And thanks! I'm surprised the guy sold it at all without trying to fix it, let alone for $1000. If he hadn't let it sit for so long I wouldn't have had to do anything but replace the starter when I bought it lol

[Chris28]

Your 95 would still be OBDI, which is good because it's easier to not even mess with OBD while boosting a KA.

[Buttons06]

Thought there were OBDI and OBDII 95's. IIRC I have an OBDI car, but I'm not sure since I used the OBD II port to pull a code once for my o2. I moved and it's still sitting at my old house, but it hasn't been messed with so I can go take a look. I'd just need to know how to determine which OBD it is, and what I'd have to do putting it into my S13 if it's OBDII.
I read somewhere that OBDI 95s have a 1 wire o2 sensor before the pre cat and a 3 wire o2 sensor after, whereas OBDIIs have a fat 3 wire sensor before and a skinny 3 wire sensor after. Any other way to tell them apart?
I believe I'd definitely need the wiring harness because of the conversion from a sohc to dohc though.

Did some reasearch more, and... From what I can tell, I'd only need to change a few sensors if it's an OBDII engine. I'd still probably need the dohc ecu and harness though from another s13.
Anyway, Suggestions for a place to build or find a turbo kit for the KADE or KAE and other parts to meet my goal? I found one on CXracing for 1399 for the KAE, and says it's capable of meeting my goals, I'd just need to find larger injectors, a tune, rebuild, and internals. How about the KADE?

[playero_loko]

how about you put a LSx in it!!! i've got a LS2 waiting to be received for today! anyways just saying.

[DaniMike]

Do the 1UZ-FE V8! Around $5K usually if you can do most of the work. XATRacing.com is the route I'll be taking.

GL with which ever direction you choose to go!

[240sxAli4Life]

Lmao guys at the LSX swap and the 1uz... He has a budget of $2000... I think you should defedently keep it a KA... You would probobly get more power out of your DOHC KA... plus there are alot more parts out there for the DOHC than the SOHC... I love the sohc KA but at the same time if you have a DOHC... use it... it will be easier to make more power! If i were you i would fully build/rebuild your DOHC KA while your driving around your sohc 240sx... that way during your engine build you will not only have a car to drive but it gives you time to take your time and build it right! Im not a fan of the CA18... and like Chris28 said idk why you would want to loose .6 liters of displacement! If your gonna do any engine swap thats not the KA go SR20 or RB! But in my opinion you should build up your DOHC KA and boost it with a disco potato (gt2871r), z32 maf, upgrade fuel pump and injectors, and a tune... You should have a nearly bullet proof KA-T with around 300-350rwhp! No problem! Not only that the CA18 is not as popular as you may think... its old technology... the engine is cast iron not aluminum... and even with a T28 turbo and up the boost you still will not beat a stock VW Jetta with a 1.8T 5spd... trust me i drove one the other day and it was quicker than a stock s13 SR20 swap... And the stock sr20 on paper should be faster! 205hp vs. 180hp that the jetta has...

[240sxAli4Life]

Oh and if you wanna run with your roommate's cobra in the backround... then you defedently dont want a CA18... the dude you buy it from my rebuild them oem parts but your gonna need a built CA with BOOST to run with that cobra! What does it have 400HP??? You fully build a S14 KA and swap it in then turbo and tune it im sure you will be a lot closer if not dead on your power goals... as with the CA you wouldnt! With a $2k budget!

[Buttons06]

Well you guys have definitely got me researching more on the kadet. I just pulled my starter off my de and using it for my sohc since I didn't wanna buy a new one at 130 bucks. Aside from the thermostat being seized up it's working perfect. No oil burning and good power considering its stock anyway. Gonna remove my clutch damper sometime soon and I get my new thermostat in a couple days. Then I guess daily the hell Outta that engine lol

[Buttons06]

Also, can anyone point me in a good direction for a rebuild kit for the KADE and some internals? Any other parts or places to find them would be awesome too. I haven't really had much time to look up things or even really work on my engine atm thanks to my job wanting me to work like 4325876 hours a week the past 2 weeks >.>

Any my budget isn't really just $2000, but I don't want to spend a lot more than that. Maybe like $3000 max. Of course if I build the DE while I daily my sohc, my budget will actually be a bit larger since I'll be waiting and doing everything right as opposed to feeling rushed and having a half built engine in my car, and having to put it on downtime later to finish it up.

Well, I think I've decided I'll just go with the KA24DET build. I'll definitely need to rebuild the engine since the rings and one rod bearing are shot atm, but should I just use the stock internals for my goals or do you think I should get forged? Just kinda iffy on that part since I've heard of people's KA-T's dying at 300-400 hp, but other people say it's likely due to improper tuning. I'd probably just get something like SAFCII though and I'm sure other people have done that high with SAFCII.
Anyway, yeah, gonna tear down the DE and get it ready when I get some time lol

[float_6969]

You guys talking about the power capabilities of the CA really need to make sure speaking from experience and not from your azz's.

You're not going to make 300whp reliably from a stock KA. It's easily possible to do it, IF you can find a good condition CA. But honestly, they're hard to find. So now you're building a motor regardless, unless you go with a late model SR.

And not to turn this into a CA vs. (fill in the blank) debate, the the "old technology" idea about the CA is REDICULOUS. It has all of the same head and block technology as the RB and the VG. I've said this a million times, but I will bet that most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a CA, RB, and VG head if they were all laid side by side, and had the length of the head hidden.

You can make the same power with a CA that you can make with an SR, or a KA. This is coming from a guy who's owned a CA in various forms for almost 10 years, has owned a KA-T, and helped build multiple SR's. If you put an SR, a KA, and a CA in front of any competent engine tuner, with the same turbo, he can make the same power with all of them.

[Buttons06]

Yeah. I know the ca can do well. I've seen one in action before. Id definitely have to build my KA. The good about the ca is the pistons and rods aren't as bad as the KA ones right? I could probably get my goal on stock internals and since it's a freshly rebuilt engine I wouldn't have to do much. I have heard I'd people getting the numbers I want off stock ca internals. I wouldn't mind getting a pretty much fresh engine for $2000 and then having to spend more on parts for it. I don't have yo worry much about the legality of the swap and I wouldn't mind running stock for a bit while I get more cash for the other mods to boost the power from the stock 175ish. But I have a dohc KA that needs rebuilt but idk how much I could get out of it before killing it. Its an old engine and been used a lot.

Damn phone and it's autocorrect idiocy.

[Elsie93]

Don't take a loan out to buy an engine.

[Buttons06]

Honestly hadn't planned on it. I can probably get the money together before I pay off my $1000 for my s13 if I make minimum payments of $100 a month lol

[playero_loko]

Don't take a loan out to buy an engine.

YAH what she said!!! don t do that, ever!

[float_6969]

The CA can easily make 300hp on stock internals. Many people have made more than that on stock internals. Something to keep in mind is that the CA was the ONLY engine available in ALL of the S13's in Europe. Europe didn't get the SR until the S14. This means they have A LOT of tuning experience with the CA18 over there. And in Australia, they LOVE the CA18 and some of the highest HP, and fastest CA18's in the world are there.

Don't let .2L and lower cost sway you away from a CA, especially if you're only looking at 300HP. You can make that with the exact same mods you'd need on an SR.

[Buttons06]

Eh, I've already discounted the idea of an SR swap. Really just gotta figure out if I want to boost my KA or get a CA.
The thing with the CA is, I know they can reach my hp goal on stock internals and just upgrading a few things, and I've talked to Dee (boost boy) who I can get one from freshly rebuilt for $2000 (and either pay shipping or drive a couple states over and pick it up) with an upgraded clutch, transmission, ecu, and all the other basic stuff. Find a used t28 turbo and I can probably get my goal for about $1000 or so added to the $2000 for the stock setup. I'd also have a spare transmission if I ever needed one lol, just have to swap the bellhousings around.
The thing about the KA it may be cheaper with stock internals but idk if it could handle it. I'd have to rebuild my DOHC KA for sure because of what's wrong with it right now - super low compression + rod bearing. There's also the fact I'd have to find a turbo kit or piece one together, and most complete kits are out of budget or ebay kits, which I really don't want to rely on. I've kind of priced things out and a kit from CXracing is like $1400+, then I'd need to tune it, etc, and I hear I'd want forged pistons at that point, but the stock rods are fine til ~400 hp. For swapping my DOHC KA with all those parts in, I'd still need to find a dohc ecu and harness, because my S13 has a sohc engine. I honestly haven't priced out building a kit, but I've been trying to find parts here and there on the classifieds section.
It looks to me like in the end, either route will cost the same, maybe a little more or a little less, depending on if I can find parts in the classifieds section and how much those parts run me.

[SX APPEAL]

Basic rule of thumb for project cars OF ANY KIND: take whatever you plan to spend on it, and double that figure. That should get you fairly close to what you're actually going to spend to get it running the way you want. Talk to just about anyone on here with a build thread lol.

[Buttons06]

Yeah lol figured as much. I guess I'm looking at about 6k then, but hey, if it ends up how I want it, then why not. I'd enjoy working on it for sure. The question becomes, how much should I be looking at for a 300-350 hp CA or KA? I don't know if my figures are correct or even close really, as I've never actually taken an engine and built it before. I mean I've torn them down, rebuilt them, swapped them, worked on them and done lots of electrical work, but never actually boosted or did any major performance mods. I'm just hoping I don't have to take my money and just set it on fire to get there, and have a fairly reliable setup. I plan on having a fun, decently powerful daily that can hang with the (most of them stock) v8's that make this area their turf lol.

[mechanicalmoron]

Honestly hadn't planned on it. I can probably get the money together before I pay off my $1000 for my s13 if I make minimum payments of $100 a month lol

You seem to agree with whatever the popular opinion of the moment is.....

You also seem to have SERIOUS monetary responsibility problems. Better pay that car off fast, you seem like the type who might end up living in it. And not in an intentional, bohemian way.

[Buttons06]

Just because I haven't committed to one plan or the other? Im still researching which I should do. As for the money, I CAN make that money. Just because I said should instead of can doesn't mean I can't or have a low chance of it.
I just need to reach a decision which is what this thread was about. Give me a reason to go one way or the other. Both are good I know. But which offers good reliability for a low cost. And offers those at 300 hp.

[mechanicalmoron]

Just because I haven't committed to one plan or the other? Im still researching which I should do. As for the money, I CAN make that money. Just because I said should instead of can doesn't mean I can't or have a low chance of it.
I just need to reach a decision which is what this thread was about. Give me a reason to go one way or the other. Both are good I know. But which offers good reliability for a low cost. And offers those at 300 hp.

You're in debt for the car, and considering going into more debt for horsepower, when the car runs fine now.

Drive the thing until you can afford what you want to do.

If 300 hp was your be-all end-all goal, you coulda bought a cheap mustang or something that does that stock, for less than building this will cost. I don't see why you'd get a 240 to try to push numbers and look cool next to V8's.... Pretty sure that's normally a secondary concern, or a loooong term goal, unless you're already rolling in the dough.

People with american V8's won't appreciate your 240 anyways, even if you can out-and-out beat them. You'll just be some annoying ricer

[Buttons06]

Just because I haven't committed to one plan or the other? Im still researching which I should do. As for the money, I CAN make that money. Just because I said should instead of can doesn't mean I can't or have a low chance of it.
I just need to reach a decision which is what this thread was about. Give me a reason to go one way or the other. Both are good I know. But which offers good reliability for a low cost. And offers those at 300 hp.

You're in debt for the car, and considering going into more debt for horsepower, when the car runs fine now.

Drive the thing until you can afford what you want to do.

If 300 hp was your be-all end-all goal, you coulda bought a cheap mustang or something that does that stock, for less than building this will cost. I don't see why you'd get a 240 to try to push numbers and look cool next to V8's.... Pretty sure that's normally a secondary concern, or a loooong term goal, unless you're already rolling in the dough.

People with american V8's won't appreciate your 240 anyways, even if you can out-and-out beat them. You'll just be some annoying ricer

I wouldn't go for the horsepower debt at all until I pay off the $1000 for the car itself, which I intended, and still do intend to pay more than minimum payments, so as to get that over with fast. Then I'll modify it, but not sure what engine I want to use yet. Til then it's all deciding and researching what I want to do, and getting opinions and ideas from people.
I mainly got it because I like the S chassis cars, especially the s13 hatchbacks. I loved my s14, but my brother wrecked it one day when I let him drive it, I assume trying to drift. Plus, if I wanted to drive a mustang I could get one of the ones my friend has/had.
I don't plan on stopping at 300 hp though, just staying there for a bit unless I decide to keep DD'ing the s13 and work on something else.

Also my logic behind even thinking about a loan for the CA was that it's got a fresh rebuild from a reputable guy on these forums who sells the engines, and he places it under warranty. That combined with me wanting to help build my credit after paying the car off was a thought. I know buying an engine on credit isn't good, but Dee has a lot of good said about him in the CA section, and it'd still be warrantied. I think the risk is minimal that I'd have a bad engine.

[mechanicalmoron]

I'm beyond noob, but can tell you that going for a number on the reliable edge of stock internals, but just for a little while, in retarded. Do it at once, why do you want to buy a rebuilt motor, put it in, get it tuned, then pull it out, rebuild it, and retune it, over and over? Common sense dictates that you decide what you want the car to do, and make it do it, at one time, when you have the money. It would probably literally be cheaper, and much easier, to buy a second shell and motor than take it out again, not have your car, and dump time and money into it.....

To me, putting in a temporary motor that you want to totally change up later is like going into debt, you're going the long way and losing out, the whole while screwing yourself because you're trying to take the easy way to get something you would have to wait for.

The motor you have in it now runs fine, surely much better than mine, which is a daily at 200k+, going hundreds of miles a week. It's fun to drive, gets you around, is an s13. Drive it while you save for whatever you're going to do, and then really do it, and do it right.

[Fenris]

+1 Vote for the CA.

You can swap some internals from RB's even. Also the main reason i swapped out a freshly rebuilt KA-E for my SR is redline. I dont dorifto or drag, but i auto-x and circuit race. I want to have more revs per gear so i can stay in a gear longer in corners rather than bounce off a red line at the wrong time or get stuck shifting early. CA18 has an even higher red line than the SR. Why u think F1 engines have 10k+ red lines? Gear changes cost time. KA has only a half weighted crank iirc and they are known to shake themselves apart if you keep them in the higher rev limits (above stock?) torque numbers can hit nice and hard early on, but its still a "truck motor." It sacrifices top end for low end. Then again, finding a totaled titan and swapping a VK56 might be fun.