OK, Obama gets my vote now

[Kalypso]

dear god, I hope these are not real tatoos,

[dusred]

Ish, why'd you shave your leg?

Just kidding. . . I hope those aren't real.

[Dieselman]

I want to preface everything here by saying I'm hammered.

I'm sick and ****ing tired of the god damned Obama ads on TV. Hell I'm sick of all of them, McCain included. I want to gouge out my eyes everytime they come on.

There, vent over. More vodka to come!

[Urabus GodofTraction]

North Korea is the first place that came to my mind. "Dear Leader".

I was actually thinking Sunday School, but we can't get into that.

[audtatious]

I want to preface everything here by saying I'm hammered.

I'm sick and ****ing tired of the god damned Obama ads on TV. Hell I'm sick of all of them, McCain included. I want to gouge out my eyes everytime they come on.

There, vent over. More vodka to come!

STFU!!!!!!

Oh, how's married life?

[Dieselman]

STFU!!!!!!

Oh, how's married life?

Freakin love it man!

Way drunker now, **** Obama!!!!!!!!!!

[audtatious]

Now, Now....Don't make me give you a vacation.

BTW, talking about vacations, the wife wants to hit Colo Springs again next year

[Cold_Zero]

I was actually thinking Sunday School, but we can't get into that.

Wow, you honestly can equate that video to Sunday school? Wow.. Seriously?

I guess the first thing that ran through my mind was Military "Basic Training." Soldiers sing songs when they run and they except everything they are told. My father always said dealing with Privates/PFC in the Army is a lot like dealing with Kindergarteners. bud

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Wow, you honestly can equate that video to Sunday school? Wow.. Seriously?

I guess the first thing that ran through my mind was Military "Basic Training." Soldiers sing songs when they run and they except everything they are told. My father always said dealing with Privates/PFC in the Army is a lot like dealing with Kindergarteners. bud

Yes. Though I'll admit to being able to stomach only half the video, so if the last bit is something different from the first...

Those kids were brainwashed into singing about something an adult wants them to. They can't form political or religious opinions at that age.

Children singing "Obama's the best" and "Jesus loves me" are thinking the exact same thing: this is what an adult figure wants me to do. Again, unable to form opinions on higher-order concepts like politics or God.

I mean, ****, I would have voted for Dukakis if 1 year olds could vote, because he was in a tank. 0 concept of politics or religion.

[audtatious]

Although religion, via Sunday School, tries to teach kids understanding, ethics, morals, compassion for others and that they are loved by powers greater than themselves based upon stories in the bible. Singing songs to a "spirit" is far different than singing songs to a political candidate as if he himself were greater than all or "god like".

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Although religion, via Sunday School, tries to teach kids understanding, ethics, morals, compassion for others and that they are loved by powers greater than themselves based upon stories in the bible. Singing songs to a "spirit" is far different than singing songs to a political candidate as if he himself were greater than all or "god like".

Young children don't understand understanding, ethics, morals, compassion, OR powers great than themselves. They're parrots. The good that comes from early teachings of understanding, ethics, etc is a form of mental conditioning that will follow them throughout their lives.

Like I said, children don't know the difference between singing songs to God, or Jesus, or Allah, or Obama. We know, we're adults.

You could easily tell a kid that Obama is the second coming of Jesus, or that God was running for president. They'll believe you, too. And sing about it, if that's what gets them approval.

*Note: I'm in no way attempting to justify what's going on in either situation.*

[Cold_Zero]

Yes. Though I'll admit to being able to stomach only half the video, so if the last bit is something different from the first...

Those kids were brainwashed into singing about something an adult wants them to. They can't form political or religious opinions at that age.

Children singing "Obama's the best" and "Jesus loves me" are thinking the exact same thing: this is what an adult figure wants me to do. Again, unable to form opinions on higher-order concepts like politics or God.

I mean, ****, I would have voted for Dukakis if 1 year olds could vote, because he was in a tank. 0 concept of politics or religion.

I guess I don't follow your view that religion affiliation must be predicated on some type of adult human rational decision. But then again my tradition doesn't fit into this and other humanistic egalitarian notions that were put forth during the enlightenment.

FYI The "Obama the Change" song and the hym "Jesus Loves Me" have two different points. I guess I have no problem with my daughter (3) singing Jesus Loves Me. But I would have a problem with her singing "Obama Loves Me."

[Urabus GodofTraction]

I guess I don't follow your view that religion affiliation must be predicated on some type of adult human rational decision. But then again my tradition doesn't fit into this and other humanistic egalitarian notions that were put forth during the enlightenment.

FYI The "Obama the Change" song and the hym "Jesus Loves Me" have two different points. I guess I have no problem with my daughter (3) singing Jesus Loves Me. But I would have a problem with her singing "Obama Loves Me."

I can't view the youtube at work, but from what I remember, the Obama song does have religious undertones. "Obama's gonna bring change" or something of the sort.

She might as well be singing:"Obama loves me, this I know, for the constitution/media tells me so.."

If you were a Jew, would you be ok with your daughter singing "Jesus Loves Me"? I'm not stating your down with "We're All Just a Raisin' McCain" because you're clearly a fellow with high moral standards who understands that kids don't atleast understand politics, but would you be ok with you daughter singing so passionatly about, say, Joseph Smith?

I guess until someone does a study on if children form religion on their own, we'll be at odds.

[Cold_Zero]

I guess if that is the case then all education (regardless of the focus) is mind washing and there for even Adults are incapable of deciding what is right, wrong, ethics, morals, compassion, OR powers great than themselves and they are all just 'Parrots.'

My question to you Charlieo would be this, what is the moment in a humans life does a child switch over to an adult and is able to 'comprehend' such things?

[audtatious]

Young children don't understand understanding, ethics, morals, compassion, OR powers great than themselves. They're parrots. The good that comes from early teachings of understanding, ethics, etc is a form of mental conditioning that will follow them throughout their lives.

Like I said, children don't know the difference between singing songs to God, or Jesus, or Allah, or Obama. We know, we're adults.

I disagree. Children do have an understanding and the teachings can give a basis for future development. This understanding is the building blocks of who they are or can be. I'm not saying you need church itself to instill this in children but since schools do not teach individual responsibility anymore then it can help. While I personally don't remember much of my Sunday School days I do know for a fact that the teachings helped strengthen my judgment. The rest IS learning from parents, teachers (tho not much if any anymore) and peers. If children simply parrot everything then what's the point of early childcare development in regards to preschool and grammar school?

[Urabus GodofTraction]

I guess if that is the case then all education (regardless of the focus) is mind washing and there for even Adults are incapable of deciding what is right, wrong, ethics, morals, compassion, OR powers great than themselves and they are all just 'Parrots.'

For the most part, yes. Ever meet the old man who's not really racist, but still calls black people inferior? Or the diehard Chevy fan, who's stuck in a Caviler he's convinced is the best thing ever because it's what his dad had? The 40 year old woman who's terrified of guns because that's all she's ever been taught about them?

My question to you Charlieo would be this, what is the moment in a humans life does a child switch over to an adult and is able to 'comprehend' such things?

I'm no child psychologist, so I can't give you an answer. I can tell you that for me it was around 5th grade, when I was sitting in Sunday School reading their little textbook talk about how God placed the hands and numbers of a watch just so so that it could tell time. I thought "that's wrong," and it was the beginning of the end of Charlieo's religious beliefs.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

I disagree. Children do have an understanding and the teachings can give a basis for future development. This understanding is the building blocks of who they are or can be. I'm not saying you need church itself to instill this in children but since schools do not teach individual responsibility anymore then it can help. While I personally don't remember much of my Sunday School days I do know for a fact that the teachings helped strengthen my judgment. The rest IS learning from parents, teachers (tho not much if any anymore) and peers. If children simply parrot everything then what's the point of early childcare development in regards to preschool and grammar school?

The good that comes from early teachings of understanding, ethics, etc is a form of mental conditioning that will follow them throughout their lives.

[Cold_Zero]

I can't view the youtube at work, but from what I remember, the Obama song does have religious undertones. "Obama's gonna bring change" or something of the sort.

No doubt that the Obama Campaign has a heavy Messianic image that they portray. From the start of his campaign, I have been denouncing such imagery. The other (sickening) imagery that I have seen is this 'revolutionary' image that his campaign has seized upon. Something, that in American Civil Religious circles is very popular within their special brand of deism. Quote »She might as well be singing:"Obama loves me, this I know, for the constitution/media tells me so.."If you were a Jew, would you be ok with your daughter singing "Jesus Loves Me"? I'm not stating your down with "We're All Just a Raisin' McCain" because you're clearly a fellow with high moral standards who understands that kids don't atleast understand politics, but would you be ok with you daughter singing so passionatly about, say, Joseph Smith?[/quote]Again, I don't see the correlation between my daughter confessing the Historical Ecumenical Creeds (Nicene, Apostles, Athanasian) or heck 'Jesus Loves Me' and these kids singing the 'Obama Change Song'. I don't believe that religious instruction is 'brain washing.' But would I have a problem with her singing passionately about Joseph Smith? Of course I would, because the issue at heart would be one little word, 'truth' and not be about her mental capacity to comprehend divine revealed truth.Quote »I guess until someone does a study on if children form religion on their own, we'll be at odds.[/quote]And that is merely what I wanted to point out. I admit I have taken the long way around the block. I personally don't think that I am mind washing my daughter (no matter what Modernist thinking puts forth to say the contrary) by sending her to Pre-school or Sunday school.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

No doubt that the Obama Campaign has a heavy Messianic image that they portray. From the start of his campaign, I have been denouncing such imagery. The other (sickening) imagery that I have seen is this 'revolutionary' image that his campaign has seized upon. Something, that in American Civil Religious circles is very popular within their special brand of deism.

Agreed.

Again, I don't see the correlation between my daughter confessing the Historical Ecumenical Creeds (Nicene, Apostles, Athanasian) or heck 'Jesus Loves Me' and these kids singing the 'Obama Change Song'. I don't believe that religious instruction is 'brain washing.' But would I have a problem with her singing passionately about Joseph Smith? Of course I would, because the issue at heart would 'truth' and not be about her mental capacity to comprehend divine revealed truth.

And there's where our paths diverge. To me, religion is the squelcher of truth and learning. So you can see my connection with Obama Song and worship songs. If the word "divine" carries no weight, then they are identical.

Modernist? If I'm to be classified, I'd much prefer the term Bright

[Cold_Zero]

For the most part, yes. Ever meet the old man who's not really racist, but still calls black people inferior? Or the diehard Chevy fan, who's stuck in a Caviler he's convinced is the best thing ever because it's what his dad had? The 40 year old woman who's terrified of guns because that's all she's ever been taught about them?

And that is really my point. According to your viewpoint even adult humans and their 'intellect' are in a no better situtation than little children learning. And that even you would have to cast suspicion on your own intellect. No offence charlieo, that view is pretty depressing for humans then.

Quote »I'm no child psychologist, so I can't give you an answer. I can tell you that for me it was around 5th grade, when I was sitting in Sunday School reading their little textbook talk about how God placed the hands and numbers of a watch just so so that it could tell time. I thought "that's wrong," and it was the beginning of the end of Charlieo's religious beliefs.[/quote]I don't even understand the point of that lesson either.bud

[96Qowner]

I was actually thinking Sunday School, but we can't get into that.

But, alas, somehow we did. Tsk tsk.

Out of all the possible analogies one might have picked, this was not well chosen. Let's stick to "Dear Leader" and its ilk.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

But, alas, somehow we did. Tsk tsk.

Out of all the possible analogies one might have picked, this was not well chosen. Let's stick to "Dear Leader" and its ilk.

Now, now, a mod made me!

And that is really my point. According to your viewpoint even adult humans and their 'intellect' are in a no better situtation than little children learning. And that even you would have to cast suspicion on your own intellect. No offence charlieo, that view is pretty depressing for humans then.

Strong people can overcome their conditioning. Good parents condition their children well. But yes, it's depressing how many people do no thinking of their own. However, the joy of personally learning, adapting, and changing and seeing others (especially children) is made all the sweeter by it's difficulty.

Now, by mod request, I'll bow out of the subject.

ZOMG OBAMA IS BRAINWASHING THE CHILDREN !!1!1!!

[audtatious]