Ok, let's talk about Qualifications and Experience (McCain version

[C-Kwik]

In other words, you're more comfortable with a President who has no real experience in government or the military, or in working alongside powerful people to accomplish mutual goals?

You're more comfortable with a President who doesn't really have any more experience than millions of average people - "real" people, as you call them?

Personally, I'm most comfortable with a leader who is experienced in the right ways. Especially in regards to what this country needs. Consider that experience can be good or bad. That is, a person's experience could have been one in which they made nothing but poor decisions. Not that this is the case with either candidate, but I'd prefer to see quality and direction rather than quantity. THIS is what I would like to see discussed...within BOTH threads.

[rn79870]

In other words, you're more comfortable with a President who has no real experience in government or the military, or in working alongside powerful people to accomplish mutual goals?

You're more comfortable with a President who doesn't really have any more experience than millions of average people - "real" people, as you call them?

That's Obama.

Typically, people are hired for their experience, as in the CEO you mention. I suppose if that company needed a new CEO, they'd rather hire you or me, who have NO experience leading a multi-million employee organization.

Or ... not.

As I said in the Obama thread, it always comes down to the idea that Experience just isn't important - that's the debate. Obama supporters never argue that Obama has experience - they argue that it isn't necessary.

Seems like a losing argument, to me.

I would suggest you take a good look at McCain's military record before you tout is as the end all "experience you think it is. Hint, he didn't retire, he quit when he didn't get his way.

And, while you're at it, explain why merely having a senate seat for 22 years prepares a person for the presidency. He has faced none of the issued a President faces, nor has he had the responsibility for making decisions.

You remind me of debating with a PETA supporter. They have a way od ignoring any logic presented in favor of returning to their argument.

So, here's your challenge. Show me where any "experience" McCain has prepares him for making the difficult decisions necessary for leading the country. He hasn't made one such decision.

You might wish to leave the military out as his military qualifications are not as outstanding as you may believe.

Again, I appreciate the sacrifice he made and the suffering he went through for 5 years at the hand of the enemy. There is, however, a camp that claims that that suffering still effects his judgment and has led to his often ill-tempered outbursts. Scary thought if true.

If I felt it was fair, I could easily spin your lack of responses to the issues backwards and declare that since you haven't responded, you cant, and therefore, your position is the weaker position. I'll give you a chance before doing that.

And yes, many of us feel that no experience is better than the kind of experience the senate has created in the last 8 years. Suffice it to say that many of us would like to dump the entire senate and replace them with honest, dedicated individuals who would apply intelligence to issues rather than fulfilling obligations to contributors and other "old school" members.

Many of us believe that there is baggage attached to what your calling "experience." That baggage comes in the form of obligations to the old guard, the lobbiest and the special interest groups that infect government. We don't see that as a positive asset for a candidate and certainly not in the best interest of America.

Food for thought

Thanks.

[96Qowner]

Feel free to respond to anything from the post where I detailed McCain's experience and qualifications in my own words.

I was tempted to compare the two candidates, but I didn't want it in the Obama thread, so I don't think it's fair to go there on this thread.

Dunno, guys, I just don't know where to go from here. It's hard to reason with people who claim that 25 years in Congress, several bipartisan successes, and 21 years in the military don't qualify as suitable experience for a President.

[rn79870]

Dunno, guys, I just don't know where to go from here. It's hard to reason with people who claim that 25 years in Congress, several bipartisan successes, and 21 years in the military don't qualify as suitable experience for a President.

We've already said many of us don't attach the same value to the "experience" you claim as so valuable. We've given you many, many reasons why we believe we're correct. Yet, you never respond to those reasons. That answer to your "I just don't know where to go from here," response might be to address the issues we've raised. Otherwise it appears that you're merely cut and pasting data from the McCain web site.

[skylndrftr]

That's Obama.

Typical. The other thread is about Obama, this thread is about McCainYou still haven't answered the original question, all your doing is Obama bashing. Whats so hard? Or are you just saying that he isn't qualified?

As I said in the Obama thread, it always comes down to the idea that Experience just isn't important - that's the debate. Obama supporters never argue that Obama has experience - they argue that it isn't necessary.

Experience is vital, but most of what hes down have been EXPERIENCES, I wouldn't give him very much EXPERIENCE credit for missing 62% of the things hes supposed to do as a part of it.

[rn79870]

It just dawned on me that the only experience that would really count should be that of being the President. However, we've seen that that experience didn't guaranty a good job. Maybe experience isn't a panacea as much as it's a spin by a candidate looking for an edge.

[skylndrftr]

oh rn you silly Obama supporter your just saying that

[smockers83]

Well, it is kinda true. What position in this country could prepare someone for the presidency, give them the true necessary experience? Either a sitting president, a VP, or a governor. That's really the only way to gain the necessary experience. A CEO could work, but he/she would also have to have extensive government experience. However, being in the process for a length of time, you see and learn things, find areas to improve in, etc. Those can be used as experience. In my job, I've seen and learned things from higher ups that I could improve myself on in order to advance and areas in which I could improve the performance of the higher ups. As one of the best managers in our department, I've been a consultant to the new boss on several occasions over the past year.

[rn79870]

What position in this country could prepare someone for the presidency, give them the true necessary experience? Either a sitting president, a VP, or a governor.

And that's a valid point, one I agree with completely.

[skylndrftr]

So Smockers your saying experience isn't important?

Why coudln't all the McCain supporters just say that in the first place...

[OriginalWheelman]

So Smockers your saying experience isn't important?

Why coudln't all the McCain supporters just say that in the first place...

That's not what he said that's what you wanted to read. Experience is important. The biggest thing the president does is work with Congress. Congressional experience is a very good preparation for President.

The reason military experience is a big factor is that the president is in charge of our military. McCain knows what it's like to be out there, guns a blazing. Unless you've actually been in combat it is not something you can inderstand. This man put his life on the line for our country, and you can sure bet he'll give it good thought before asking our troops to do the same.

[C-Kwik]

That's not what he said that's what you wanted to read. Experience is important. The biggest thing the president does is work with Congress. Congressional experience is a very good preparation for President.

The reason military experience is a big factor is that the president is in charge of our military. McCain knows what it's like to be out there, guns a blazing. Unless you've actually been in combat it is not something you can inderstand. This man put his life on the line for our country, and you can sure bet he'll give it good thought before asking our troops to do the same.

I don't discount experience, but putting something under a blanket of experience means little to me. I want to know the specific things hes done that would bring positive benefits to our country should he be elected.

As for military experience, the same is true as well. Keep in mind that being a soldier and having been captured, etc. does not necessarily mean he will be a good military leader/strategist. One could argue that if he were that good, he would not have been captured.

Keep in mind the issues our country faces and how his "experience" would directly impact these issues...

[OriginalWheelman]

I think you're overstating the president's job a CIC. I have never heard o president devising a war strategy. The president only has power to send troops in for 90 days. The point is a person who does not know what it is like to be in that situation can't understand it. If McCain is thinking about sending troops in, he's going to be thinking about the time he spent in war, the things that happened to him when he was there, and he is going to stop and think at least one more time than someone who hasn't been there. He has to decide to put Americans in harms way, and he knows just what that feels like. It's the same reason that in order to carry Mace, you have to be Maced. Why? So you know what you are about to do to someone. You have to ask, do I really want to do this to another human? It makes you much less likely to do it casually.

[C-Kwik]

My argument here is that we've really only scratched the surface in regards to what we know about the candidates. Think of it this way. If you were a manager interviewing a potential employee and they handed you a very impressive resume, would you automatically assume, they would make a great employee? Of course not. They could have 20 years of experience doing the job, but been a lazy worker who barely did the minimum amount of work necessary to keep his job.

[skylndrftr]

That's not what he said that's what you wanted to read. Experience is important.

Iapologize for the hurt feelings, guys ... just trying to get people to respond. There's an entire page of posts that have nothing to do with the thread topic. I asserted that McCain fans don;t like to talk about his qualifications. More than one poster seems angry that he's been called to task. That's ok with me as long as y'all acknowledge that you just don't care whether he's qualified or not.

[96Qowner]

Mocking people becomes less charming when you pass the age of 14 or so.

[skylndrftr]

its not mocking when it proves my point :p

[smockers83]

So Smockers your saying experience isn't important?

Why coudln't all the McCain supporters just say that in the first place...

Umm, que? Where did you get that from? I'm not angry that I've been called to task. I listed experience and you immediately shot it down as not experience/qualifications. What's the point of continuing only to have it shot down without consideration?

[skylndrftr]

John McCain today referenced Czechoslovakia which hasn't existed in several decades.

I thought he was the foreign policy expert?

[smockers83]

John McCain today referenced Czechoslovakia which hasn't existed in several decades.

I thought he was the foreign policy expert?

You've got to be kidding me. I'm glad he's more of an expert than you.Czechoslovakia existed until 92 or 93 (it existed as Czechoslovakia for much of the 20th century), which it is now the Czech Republic and Slovakia. References of Czechoslovakia = Czech Republic.

[WDRacing]

You've got to be kidding me. I'm glad he's more of an expert than you.Czechoslovakia existed until 92 or 93 (it existed as Czechoslovakia for much of the 20th century), which it is now the Czech Republic and Slovakia. References of Czechoslovakia = Czech Republic.

They don't if you're trying to bash a person simply because you blindly follow party politics

[skylndrftr]

You've got to be kidding me. I'm glad he's more of an expert than you.Czechoslovakia existed until 92 or 93 (it existed as Czechoslovakia for much of the 20th century), which it is now the Czech Republic and Slovakia. References of Czechoslovakia = Czech Republic.

thats more than a decade hence the decades comment, pardon the slight exageration. I never claimed to be a foreign policy expert but I know enough to say the country doesnt exist anymore. John McCain claims to be one, you'd think he would get it right.

[96Qowner]

McCain actually visited the Czech Republic in 1993 when it was formed, and again in 2001. He visited Slovakia in 2002 and has been endorsed by a former U.S. ambassador to Slovakia, Ronald Weiser.

To me, that's useful experience for a future President, even if for most of McCain's life it was a combined country called Czechoslovakia. Sometimes people still refer to the Soviet Union, which no longer exists either. Sometimes people even refer to the 57 States in the USA. It's more important to have been there and met the people and their leaders.

[rn79870]

They don't if you're trying to bash a person simply because you blindly follow party politics

Pot meet kettle...

[WDRacing]

Pot meet kettle...

I definitely don't subscribe to party politics...

IMO both candidates aren't even close to who I'd pick. I'm not blindly arguing things just because they are coming from a Liberal. If I agree with them then I say so.

Independent

[rn79870]

McCain actually visited the Czech Republic in 1993 when it was formed, and again in 2001. He visited Slovakia in 2002 and has been endorsed by a former U.S. ambassador to Slovakia, Ronald Weiser.

To me, that's useful experience for a future President, even if for most of McCain's life it was a combined country called Czechoslovakia. Sometimes people still refer to the Soviet Union, which no longer exists either. Sometimes people even refer to the 57 States in the USA. It's more important to have been there and met the people and their leaders.

Really 96, a 15+ year old junket to a former iron block country is wonderful experience, but seriously, it really doesn't add anything to a resume for a potential president.

But, this is the first specific that you've given as far as experience goes so I'll give you some credit for that. Now, can you provide any other examples of experience that will make him the better choice for the office he seeks?

[96Qowner]

Really 96, a 15+ year old junket to a former iron block country is wonderful experience, but seriously, it really doesn't add anything to a resume for a potential president.

We could do this all day long, Bob. I bring up experience relating directly to the duties of the leader of the strongest nation on earth and you dismiss it as not adding anything to the resume. Ok. I think your position is quite clear, I'm just not sure why you bother to ask for info you don't care to hear.

But, this is the first specific that you've given as far as experience goes so I'll give you some credit for that. Now, can you provide any other examples of experience that will make him the better choice for the office he seeks?

Uh oh, you want to compare the choices we have? Are you sure?

In 1993, when McCain had been a Senator for 7 years, twice as long as Obama has, and visited the newly formed Czech Republic and its leader, Obama was lecturing at the Chicago School of law. Since then, Obama has not visited foreign countries or their leaders - he's been busy running a political campaign every two years for the post 12 years. Obama has never spoken with the leader of the Czech Republic OR Czechoslovakia.

McCain has visited over 70 countries and spoken with their leaders and even those in line to be leaders.

He has visited every region of the world, including Antarctica and the Arctic Circle, and frequently meets with leaders of the countries to which he's traveled, both when he visits their countries and when they visit the United States.

Mr. McCain has been across the world so many times that aides named off the tops of their heads some 69 countries he's visited — including Azerbaijan, Estonia, Laos, and Palau — and warned the list was far from exhaustive.

He makes it a point to meet with up-and-comers, too. Aides say he met Angela Merkel at a Munich conference several years ago before she became German chancellor. In summer 2004, Mr. McCain met at a restaurant with Viktor Yushchenko before the Orange Revolution when he was elected Ukrainian president.

Next week, Mr. McCain is expected to meet with Prime Minister Brown of Britain for the first time, and President Sarkozy of France for the third time. He met and corresponded with Mr. Sarkozy both before and after he was elected. The two last saw each other last summer.

http://www.nysun.com/national/...72988/

McCain FTW, hmm?

But of, course, these examples don't count anymore than anything would, right?

[rn79870]

We could do this all day long, Bob. I bring up experience relating directly to the duties of the leader of the strongest nation on earth and you dismiss it as not adding anything to the resume. Ok. I think your position is quite clear, I'm just not sure why you bother to ask for info you don't care to hear.

Not the case 96. I do care to hear what you have to say. I thought we already settled the experience question though, by pointing out that the 3 best "experience" arguments for President would be previous experience being 1. President, 2. Vice President, or 3. Governor. However, if you feel that visiting other countries and talking to leaders is a viable experience for the office of President, then you're on the right track.

Do you see any irony in everyone's criticism of Obama for wanting to visit the Islamic countries and talk to their leaders? You've pointed out that visiting and talking = good right?

Seriously, when that phone rings at 3AM in the Whitehouse bedroom, what will having visited 69 other countries bring to the table in the form of experience to answer that call? See my point?

As a side note; It appears that hillary is the only one of the three with and clue about presidential experience, albeit as first lady, and that just may become part of the Obama package. That may or may not scare you.

[smockers83]

While those three things are all true Bob, not everyone comes from those backgrounds. So for both candidates we must go to what they've done in their careers previously. Not all head honchos have previous top-level leadership positions coming into the job.

[rn79870]

Which is my point Smocky, that is, none of the candidates have the real experience we would like to see in the next president. But we have what we have.