OK, Chance to Strike Back, Dispel Common Myths, Etc.

[maxnix]

Why Did The Infiniti Q45 Flop And Should They Even Bother With A New One?
Modified by maxnix at 8:34 AM 3/2/2009

[MR. Q]

I like all Q's. I think that lack of help from dealers and engineering mistakes with bad word of mouth could be another reason. There are many that love the Q and would never sell it. But maybe they don't have the money for the next Q to come. Infiniti has to out do the 425 horsepower hemi and have a automobile that appeals to the world. A car that everyone will talk about like when krispy kremes first came to washington state. Make sure parts don't go faulty because the company wanting to make money at certain mile intervals. No oil burning engines. Quadruple check the car to make sure there shouldn't be any recalls. When things have gone wrong it's easier to fix the problems. New designers. Or incorporate the first designers with all model designers in a big meeting to get on the ball with this car that so many love. As if Inifiniti owners are adopted and the other automakers have silver spoons. I believe they are working on the Q. 20th anniversary is right around the corner maybe they'll surprise us! I saw the new maxima and I though it was a Q on the road. So if Infiniti can bring in the bucks with the G series They should be able to do the same with the Q.
Modified by MR. Q at 6:08 PM 2/28/2009

[MinisterofDOOM]

Infiniti's marketing is largely reponsible. Not just with the goofy G50 ads, but all throughout the car's life. By the end of the F50's life, the company had started to catch on, but by that point they had their beloved G35 to concentrate on, so damn the unprofitable Q.

America's consumer tastes are also largely responsible. The Q fills a small niche and takes risks by being sportier than the competition. It scares the Lexus buyers away. American buyers in general want a car they can ignore, and the Q is exactly the opposite.

The thing that you have to keep in mind is that flagship cars aren't necessarily supposed to turn a profit or sell well. What they're supposed to do is remind the world what your brand is capable of. Then everyone will want those affordable G35s even more, because they were made by the same company that built that incredible Q50. A properly marketed flagship brings the entire brand's image up around it. Infiniti got the car right with the G50 and F50, but they didn't get the marketing right. The Y33 simply wasn't suitable to be a flagship. It was no herald of the brand's prowess. It just filled an empty spot.

Of course I would like to see the Q come back, but only AS A Q. If it comes back as Infiniti's Lexus LS or some watered down luxobore like that, I don't care to see it. If Infiniti is prepared to do for the current industry what the G50 did for the lux industry in the '90s, I'd love to see what they can do. But they MUST market it correctly if they want it to do well.

[BadQ45t]

You know there are lot worse cars I could have picked up 9 years ago for 22k (1997 Q45t with 42k on odo). First that was a great deal at the time. Bu overall I have had one repair job, that was the gas door popping open on its own. It was covered under warranty. I also had a few cracks on the door handle leather, also covered under warranty.

Other than that just lots of fresh fluids, one set of plugs, tires/rims (new setup), brake pads, and lowering springs and shocks (for me). In comparision my brother bought a 96' LS400 the same year (for 36k with 55k on the odo), now today he's got alot more miles but he's done his timing belt for close to a grand (he did it at the dealership) at 60 and than 120k. What did he get besides the timing belt and the 12k more he paid for a 1 year older car.....Overall he's got one more gear, which I would love to have, slightly less power (by the seat of the pants driving it) and overall my 2nd Gen Q looks way better (I think so at least).

that said for sure the 97' was a compromise, but it is one DAMN good car. Zero break-downs, really no repairs in 9 years, looks good if you keep it in shape, and is for sure comfortable to drive your friends and family around in.

What Infiniti needs to do is take a fresh slate for styling and come out with something new, take the new 390 horse FX50 motor, put a blower on it (call it a Compressor like MB or twin turbo like GTR) and get 475 to 500 horses. Than just base off the current M interior which is very nice, go back to double wishbone suspension, 19" rims stock, and try to sell 20k of them a year, call it the Q50Turbo. You need to blow away the LS460 in performance, that is a must. At least 1 second faster 0-60, that gets the performance BMW buyer looking at this as a cheap M5 instead of a comparo to the LS or base MB or BMW. A TOP OF THE LINE Q.

The 97' in 2000 did look the part of the top of the line, while not awe-inspiring it was a sweet ride and was clearly WAY better than the I30/I35 and G20's on the lot (remember no G35 yet). I loved (and still do) 1st Gens, too bad they had so many issues and had looks that didn't translate well to the American buyer (I still have tons of people who told me the think they are very ugly).

BTW, I could have bought a 1996 at the same time I got my 97' and I'm very happy I got the 97' instead. The 1996 had the less powerful engine and I think are proving FAR less bullet proof than the 97' taken care of in the same way, and lowered with my 19" rims I think looks way more MAJOR Lux cruiser than the 1st Gen.

[MinisterofDOOM]

too bad they had so many issues and had looks that didn't translate well to the American buyer (I still have tons of people who told me the think they are very ugly).

Like I said, the fact that most American buyers are lobotomized monkeys is a large part of what hurt the Q45.

Anyone who thinks the G50 is ugly needs to get out of my gene pool.

The people who think the G50 was ugly are probably the same people driving Camry Solaras. Taste is subjective, but sometimes you have to wonder if certain subjectivities are the result of mental defect.

[Trumpkin]

"I have a friend who has a very late model Q45, I honestly snicker every time I see him driving it."

I'm at a loss with his statement here? I honestly snicker when I see someone driving a hyndai!

Whats he mean?

[maxnix]

Hope all the above posts made it to Autospies!

[Haitian_King]

Hope all the above posts made it to Autospies!

Indeed.

As a first gen Q owner, I'd like to call horses*** in regards to that article. What makes the Q great?

The fact that I can consistently outperform some of these newer cars on the road and my car is 17 years old.

Another reason is that all of these new cars being touted as "fuel efficient" boasting 20-23 MPG on the highway, while my car has been doing that for ages.

For its spartan interior, the G50 setup is completely functional and practical. Not to mention comfortable. My greatest lament? Lack of cupholders. But I think that's a pretty damn good trade for all of the other perks I get.

If Nissan decides to stop being silly and seriously puts some effort into the new Q, I think it'll be a huge seller. Or at the very least, make people remember the name.

[Q45tech]

Impossible to comply with proposed new CAFE standards with anything larger than 2.2 liters in a vehicle that weights ~~ 4000 pounds and has an automatic transmission or CVT.

The era of heavy roomy lux cars is gone, a VERY small turbo diesel might work, but the $7 per CO2 Ton tax will make them impossible to drive.

[jltibbs]

BTW, I could have bought a 1996 at the same time I got my 97' and I'm very happy I got the 97' instead. The 1996 had the less powerful engine and I think are proving FAR less bullet proof than the 97' taken care of in the same way, and lowered with my 19" rims I think looks way more MAJOR Lux cruiser than the 1st Gen.

Didn't the 97's start with the 4.1 motor? A de-stroked 4.5 with LESS horsepower? That's what I recall, but I may be wrong.

[maxnix]

Didn't the 97's start with the 4.1 motor? A de-stroked 4.5 with LESS horsepower? That's what I recall, but I may be wrong.

While the US VH41DE started with the VH45DE block dimensions, very many differences that made it simpler and less expensive to build.

Still a damn fine motor.

[jltibbs]

Didn't say it was a bad motor, just referencing to BadQ45t's statement: The 1996 had the less powerful engine and I think are proving FAR less bullet proof than the 97.

That's all.

[maxnix]

Didn't say it was a bad motor, just referencing to BadQ45t's statement: The 1996 had the less powerful engine and I think are proving FAR less bullet proof than the 97.

That's all.

Haven't really seen that here. They are after all a VH45DE without the intake camshaft advance mechanism and OBD II, which will not hurt anything. Finding another one will be difficult if it does go bad through abuse since so few were sold here.

What I thought was interesting was Q45tech said the installed a JDM pull recently, whereas I was under the impression only the 1996 US model lost the intake camshaft advance mechanism while all other (primarily JDM) models retained it.

[Jesda]

The MB W124 had the heritage, prestige, and tradition.The 5-series had the sporty appeal.Cadillac's STS was the fastest (until 1998) and best looking.The Lexus LS had the agreeable dependability and comfort.

The Q45 had a lot of all the above characteristics, and still got squeezed out. There's no single reason why the Q failed, but there's a million reasons why Lexus, MB, Cadillac, and especially BMW are able to sell so many cars.

Those of us who have driven a lot of different cars know what's what. I've had a thorough mix of luxury cars and trucks including Lincoln, Cadillac, BMW, Infiniti, Lexus, Land Rover, MB and Chrysler. I can say with certainty that the Q45 wasn't Infiniti's problem. It was Infiniti itself. Is it natural luxury? Value luxury? Sport luxury? Tech luxury? No one really knows what the brand means.

Failure to communicate.

[MinisterofDOOM]

It's interesting that even though the article talks about the Q as a model line, most of the comments are G50-specific. Seems odd to me. So many comments are along the lines of "the looks were the problem" with no indication as to WHICH Q they're talking about. I wonder if everyone posting in the comments is 16 years old and doesn't remember the impact of the original Q because they were still wearing diapers?

I'm kind of annoyed that those kinds of comments are so common. Not because I like the Q and it makes me mad to hear people say it's ugly, but because no one is giving a REASON or any specifics. At least when I call a car ugly I'm prepared with an explanation. Why even bother posting a comment if you're just going to say "it was ugly, that's why." WHICH Q was ugly? WHAT was ugly? Morons. If you don't have anything meaningful to ad to the discussion, go away. The grownups are trying to talk.

No one really knows what the brand means. Failure to communicate.

That's a great point, but I think it goes beyond even communication. Infiniti needed a direction in the first place. The original Infiniti line was all over the place. A small 1980s sport coupe, a rev-happy econocar, and a big V8 sport sedan. No coherency. The M30, much as I like it, wasn't exactly 90s-luxury caliber inside. And the G20 should never have worn the Infiniti badge in the first place...$20k for a compact in 1991!!!The J30 was better suited for the brand and it's purpose, definitely.

It wasn't until 2003 that Infiniti found their direction and established themselves with buyers and the media as the number-1 BMW alternative. That should have been their first move. Not rocks. I have a video comparing the 1994 Q with the contemporary 7-series, LS, and Seville. Where was that back in 1990 when it would have made a difference?

[maxnix]

I can say with certainty that the Q45 wasn't Infiniti's problem. It was Infiniti itself. Is it natural luxury? Value luxury? Sport luxury? Tech luxury? No one really knows what the brand means.

Failure to communicate.

True, and this all occurred across a background of failing economics and regime change. Under Ghosn, no Q45 has ever been produced. The F50 was slated before he arrived.

[northt]

"It's coming..."

"It's coming..."

[maxnix]

"It's coming..."

"It's coming..."

Kind of like the new Acura V10 NSX, the Acura V8 RL and Lexus LFA?

Oh, that's right, they were cancelled.

[elwesso]

agreed with MOD. That article sets out to prove why the Q45 "flopped", and never really gave a reason that it did, just a bunch of biased opinions on why it did...

IMO calling the car a sales flop might be OK, but calling the vehicle a flop isnt really fair. I think that most people that bought the Q new were the small group of people that were car guys but could afford an expensive car...

I bet you could take 2 people from 1990, one who bought a Q45 and one who bought a lexus and the Q guy would say "my car is faster", and the lexus guy would say "yeah, but my car has wood trim"

Different strokes for different folks. Im glad it was a flop so I can pick up Q's dirt cheap and know im driving a better car!

[maxnix]

Yeah, it's just that most G50 are now mostly dirt besides being cheap.

Think it's time to go Bimmer and MB hunting! Hell, I even played with an 6 cylinder M3 in the FGY33 the other day. Had me on the straights, but not the curves!

I always like the "WTF is that" expression on their faces.

[Haitian_King]

It's interesting that even though the article talks about the Q as a model line, most of the comments are G50-specific. Seems odd to me. So many comments are along the lines of "the looks were the problem" with no indication as to WHICH Q they're talking about. I wonder if everyone posting in the comments is 16 years old and doesn't remember the impact of the original Q because they were still wearing diapers?

I'm kind of annoyed that those kinds of comments are so common. Not because I like the Q and it makes me mad to hear people say it's ugly, but because no one is giving a REASON or any specifics. At least when I call a car ugly I'm prepared with an explanation. Why even bother posting a comment if you're just going to say "it was ugly, that's why." WHICH Q was ugly? WHAT was ugly? Morons. If you don't have anything meaningful to ad to the discussion, go away. The grownups are trying to talk.

That's a great point, but I think it goes beyond even communication. Infiniti needed a direction in the first place. The original Infiniti line was all over the place. A small 1980s sport coupe, a rev-happy econocar, and a big V8 sport sedan. No coherency. The M30, much as I like it, wasn't exactly 90s-luxury caliber inside. And the G20 should never have worn the Infiniti badge in the first place...$20k for a compact in 1991!!!The J30 was better suited for the brand and it's purpose, definitely.

It wasn't until 2003 that Infiniti found their direction and established themselves with buyers and the media as the number-1 BMW alternative. That should have been their first move. Not rocks. I have a video comparing the 1994 Q with the contemporary 7-series, LS, and Seville. Where was that back in 1990 when it would have made a difference?

I think the F50 is hideous. Sorry. I should have been clearer. I love the G50. I started liking the FY33 because I can see the G50 in the styling.

[elwesso]

Yeah, it's just that most G50 are now mostly dirt besides being cheap.

Think it's time to go Bimmer and MB hunting! Hell, I even played with an 6 cylinder M3 in the FGY33 the other day. Had me on the straights, but not the curves!

I always like the "WTF is that" expression on their faces.

still if you can find a rust free example the rest of the car is cheap to replace.. I'll deal with suspenison, engine and transmission stuff all day if I can find one with a nice interior and paint.

If I ever bought a used Q I'd just drop the whole drivetrain and suspension out and replace what needed to be replaced

[qship96]

Wes, has your Q developed the rust bubbles around the rear wheel openings and rear door dog legs/rockers yet? Seems all the G50 in salt areas rust in those 2 places, including mine.

[elwesso]

Wes, has your Q developed the rust bubbles around the rear wheel openings and rear door dog legs/rockers yet? Seems all the G50 in salt areas rust in those 2 places, including mine.

Yeah this spring Im going to try and fix it... Right where the bottom corner of the door meets the rocker panel its starting to bubble up, i noticed it starting about 3 years ago and subsequent attempts to <half-azz> fix it didnt really work.. It really hasnt gotten that much worse though.

No rust around the wheel wells on the rear quarter panel though which is nice and a lot more visible than the area behind the rocker panel.