Oil Use '02-'04 M45s?

[MinnyQ]

I'm thinking of buying an '02 to '04 M 45, but I noticed on the Edmunds site a couple people complaining about 1000miles/per quart oil burning .... and their dealerships telling them this was "normal". I'm dubious. But what do you guys know? Have these things been reliable? Any specific problems to check out when shopping?

[Andrew224]

If you look back at previous posts, this topic has been visited a few times. In a nutshell... It seems that some cars have this problem, some don't. A few people have had their engine replaced under warranty due to this problem.

If you are considering an '04 M, do yourself a favor and get the Infiniti Elite Extended Warranty before the factory bumper to bumper expires. It's worth the piece of mind.

My '03 has had a few minor problems but has been very dependable. It doesn't have the oil burning problem and most importantly, I've never broke down on the road!

For what it's worth, I've had my car almost 3 years, I still love my car like I just got it!

Andrew

[myother45isalesbaer]

My 2004 M45 had the same problem with synthetic oil. Once I went back to regular oil I have not had a problem since then with oil consumption. No one seems to know why and were very baffled. I ran it 6 hard and fast hours to Canada from CT and the same back and not a drop down when I got home.

[Q45tech]

The VK45 used a different ring design to reduce friction [increase HP] and required some delicate ring break in proceedures to set them so they didn't use oil.

Unfortunately there is no world standard for oil consumption and 1 quart per 1,000 miles is used as the breakpoint by almost every manufacturer.

Many have been spoiled by extremely low previous oil use on Japanese engines ~~ 1 quart per 3,750 miles.

That is a serious rub how to determine oil usage on a used car you are thinking of buying.

From speaking to dealers around ATL it appears that much fewer than 10% have excessive oil usage................to be safe let's say a 1 in 10 chance of getting an oily used one since used cars are sold when problems are found.

Why you want to only buy those with perfect dealer records.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Thanks for the info. I will keep it in mind as a beat the snot out of my M45 that has no oil consumption issues. I really mean beat the snot out of it as every chance I get I Hammer that motor and trans to speeds over 100+ I do so. Once I went to regular oil I had no issues. That motor does not like synthetic oil. I eats it up for breakfast.

This car knocked my BMW540I into never land. Its a sleeper and I beleive some of the stories about it taking out 5 liter Mustangs, etc. My M45 gets around 80-90MPH and just starts talking to me as to why I am going so slow. Awesome Car!!!

Anyway..........I have a ton of stories I could tell about how this car can just rock. But what I really want to know is how many of the 2003 and 2004's where produced.

[MinnyQ]

The basic question here is overall reliability. As I understand it the '02-'04 M45 had been in production in Japan for what? four to six years before being shipped over here to bridge the gap to the "new" M45. According to an Infiniti shop guy, most of the usual bugs and gross deficiencies were corrected and this model is quite reliable. Does that include electrical gremlins? Solid transmission? And on gas consumption I still get 16 mpg city 21 hwy with my '95 Q45. What's the consensus on this one?

[szh]

This car knocked my BMW540I into never land. Its a sleeper and I believe some of the stories about it taking out 5 liter Mustangs, etc. My M45 gets around 80-90MPH and just starts talking to me as to why I am going so slow. Awesome Car!!!

Anyway..........I have a ton of stories I could tell about how this car can just rock.

Please do post the stories!!

But what I really want to know is how many of the 2003 and 2004's where produced.

The approximate sales figures are here in this thread: zerothread?id=191187.

Z

[szh]

The basic question here is overall reliability. As I understand it the '02-'04 M45 had been in production in Japan for what? four to six years before being shipped over here to bridge the gap to the "new" M45. According to an Infiniti shop guy, most of the usual bugs and gross deficiencies were corrected and this model is quite reliable. Does that include electrical gremlins? Solid transmission?

My car has been very reliable for the past four years now (knock on wood!), but the long-term data is still not in. You do see the occasional reports of problems with electrical (NAV system went out, etc.), but nothing that seems to be a systemic problem with them.

Too early to tell on the transmission too.

And on gas consumption I still get 16 mpg city 21 hwy with my '95 Q45. What's the consensus on this one?

I average 16 to 17mpg with mixed city-highway driving (about 60% highway). You might find my tests from a while back, reported in this thread: zerothread?id=59766 an interesting read!

Z

[myother45isalesbaer]

Ok....you wanted some stories about my M45. One of these happened not to soon after I got my M. For various reasons my wife and I were in a hurry to get to NJ for business reasons. So I was pushing the speed limit all the way. I was trying to hold the car under 80mph, but was having trouble doing so. A 540 Series Beemer was tailing me and then started playing with me. He would push up to 90mph. I would match it. He would back off and so would I. This little game went on for about 10 minutes. We then had a clear highway, no traffic, and he flew by me going at least 100mph. That's all I needed. I gave the juice to the M, it downshifted once and then went nuts. At 120mph I pulled along side the beemer. The look on his face said it all. It was like what in God's name are you driving?? I stayed a few seconds with him so he could get at good look at the car. I then proceeded to let the M go and do what it does best. He tried to keep up but as I was hitting 130 and still going he just could not catch me. We both had to back down as too much traffic was in front of us. I never hit the rev limiter and never have to this day. One day I will take it out and see what the top end really is.

Needless to say at the end of this game, my wife went ballistic on me. But knocking off the 5 Series V8 beemer gave me a lot of satisfaction as I had just traded my BMW for the M. Maybe he was pushing his driving abilities or his car needed a good tune-up. Either way.......he was one shocked cowboy. I am 54 years old and don't normally do this, but I could not resist. I let the M settle down to 70mph and it got us where we needed to go on time as if nothing happened.

More stories to come if you want them. Let me know.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Edmunds is a comic book. The M45 in 2003 AND 2004 was based on the Q to be a Sport Version. Did not sell well but kicked butt very nicely. It was made to take on the Germany sport sedans and did well.

Why are all you M owners whining and crying about oil consumption? Not running right? Minor flaws here and there?

Go home to your mommies and buy a Chevy, Ford or something like that.

I will see you on the street.

[GJEMD]

Edmunds is a comic book. The M45 in 2003 AND 2004 was based on the Q to be a Sport Version. Did not sell well but kicked butt very nicely. It was made to take on the Germany sport sedans and did well.

Why are all you M owners whining and crying about oil consumption? Not running right? Minor flaws here and there?

Go home to your mommies and buy a Chevy, Ford or something like that.

I will see you on the street.

Aside from the rare case of extreme oil consumption that results in engine replacement, I would suggest that most high performance engines that are consistently pushed will require adding oil over a 3-5000 mile interval. Just ask any one that has owned a Corvette ,Porsche,BMW M3 or a Ferrari. Its just part of a high performance experience

[MinnyQ]

As much as I enjoy delivering a good fright roaring down an entrance ramp, I seriously doubt I'd ever be pushing the needle past 90 mph. It'd be just my luck the car I blew by would be a Wisconsin sheriff, and the fine for 70-over-the-limit is, I think, five years in stocks. I'm just curious if this oil-burning business is endemic, a la the infamous plastic timing chain guides on the early Qs. No offense to M45 owners here, but the '02 to '04 ain't exactly a beauty, style-wise. But the depreciation factor, plus the motor, plus my very favorable experience with Infiniti build integrity (272k on my '95 Q) puts me in a mood to buy one. The other option is an '02 or newer Audi A6 4.2 ... but God help me, with Audis you get waaay too familiar with the shop managers.

[myother45isalesbaer]

I would buy the M. My only hesitation is your winters, but if you have done OK with the Q the M should not be a problem. I think the oil usage issue is really a none issue. Mine came new with regular oil. No problems. Switched to synthetic at first oil change and it ate two quarts in 7,000 miles. Went back to dino oil and no problems.

As much as I love the German cars they do spend way too much time in the shop. Thats why I got rid of mine. The Germans really need to go to Japan and find out how they make their cars more reliable. Especially with the electronics.

Good luck and my vote is for the M.

[GJEMD]

I would buy the M. My only hesitation is your winters, but if you have done OK with the Q the M should not be a problem. I think the oil usage issue is really a none issue. Mine came new with regular oil. No problems. Switched to synthetic at first oil change and it ate two quarts in 7,000 miles. Went back to dino oil and no problems.

As much as I love the German cars they do spend way too much time in the shop. Thats why I got rid of mine. The Germans really need to go to Japan and find out how they make their cars more reliable. Especially with the electronics.

Good luck and my vote is for the M.

Now, I've heard it both ways. Going from Dino to Synthetic reduced oil consumptionand now from synthetic to dino. If viscosity is a matter of physics then whats your best guess on this phenomena???

[myother45isalesbaer]

Thats a very good question. In my case maybe I went to Amsoil too early in the break-in process. It was 5-30W. I have often pondered that vicscosity issue myself. Dino oil is supposed to not hold its viscosity rating as well as the synthetics do. It is also supposed to "perc" off easier at higher temps. I am using Dino 5-30W now. Logically if the motor was not fully broken in than the Dino oil would have been the problem. I used the same viscocity in both oils to try to make a fair evuation. The one unknown that I could not factor in, and don't understand why it would a difference anyway, it that the two different oils require two different types of filters. Dino filters don't work well with synthetics. Could there be a pressure difference or filtering rate that caused the synthetic to be burned off or "perc'd". I am not sure. But I did have the proper filter for each type of oil.

After talking to my mechanic who loves Infiniti's and drives a Q himself told me other makes like SAAB for one had the same issues with synthetic oil.

I am sticking with the Dino oil for now. Between oil changes I have absolutely no loss of oil. I only have 14,000 miles on my M. Maybe after a few more Dino changes I will try the syntheic's again.

If you can figure out why this happens please let me know.

[GJEMD]

I've driven high performance cars for 40 yrs. My experience is 2 quarts/7000 of vigorous driving is only expected. I also wonder if your "new car" thrill had you in the throttle a lot more than you realized in the beginning, resulting in the oil consumption.

[myother45isalesbaer]

You know.........I think you may be right about that new car "thrill". I was pounding it pretty hard sometimes, manual shifts, many revs trying to see if it felt as quick as my beemer did. I forgot about that.

Its getting an oil change this week. I think I will try Amsoil again and see what happens.

Thanks for reminding me. Last 6-7K miles I don't remember downshifting by hand or putting a lot of rev's on the tach. Only a few heavy times on the pedal.

I think you are right. Its me and the oil consumption has to do with how hard you drive this car. That makes a ton of sense.

[telcoman]

I'm thinking of buying an '02 to '04 M 45, but I noticed on the Edmunds site a couple people complaining about 1000miles/per quart oil burning .... and their dealerships telling them this was "normal". I'm dubious. But what do you guys know? Have these things been reliable? Any specific problems to check out when shopping?

My G35 used a qt per 1000 miles when new. At almost 45k miles it now uses 1/2 qt per 2000 miles. I use Pennzoil 5w-30 & would never use synthetic. I change my own oil every 3k to 3.5k miles.

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

Telcoman

[myother45isalesbaer]

I don't beleive the dealers at all. My M45 is not using a drop between oil changes and I in no way baby it. Also, no problems at all with anything from day one. I am doing well with regular old 5-30W oil. That's want Infiniti recommends so I am sticking with it.

I think one of the reasons the dealers are BS'ing everyone is this car was only made in 2003 and 2004. Sales were poor. They probably want everyone to trade into one of their newer M models. My opinion, but the newer M's are no way the same car. Its on a different frame making it smaller. Although there are a ton of versions available.........look at the price of the M45 Sport and tell me if the 2003-2004's are not a way better deal for the money.

I am keeping my old M. I think it has potential to be a classic.

[GJEMD]

Quote »I am keeping my old M. I think it has potential to be a classic.[/quote]Yes my friend a Japanese GTO

[myother45isalesbaer]

Yes. But so much better in so many ways. I loved the muscle cars but would not give up my M for anyone of them today.

I just wish I could get the actually production numbers for each year.

This car has to be one of the biggest "sleepers" on the road today. Very few know what it is and what it can do. Some of those that are into cars often ask...........what is that car? I just love it. Several have asked if they minded if they could take some pics. I of course told them to take all they wanted. My wife was shocked. She thought like many its just an any "ole" car with a V8 with heated seats.

In my opinion the car reminds me of a Crown Vic in size, but on a lot of Steroids.

[GJEMD]

Quote »In my opinion the car reminds me of a Crown Vic in size, but on a lot of Steroids.[/quote]The dimensions of the 2003-2004 M45 are precisely that of a 1966-67 GTO.The Crown is bigger by 15-20%. I agree that the M45 is way past a GTO.I bought my M45 instead of a cherry 67 GTO. Same price

[myother45isalesbaer]

Interesting. I did not know that. Too bad you couldn't have gotten both. The GTO was always one of my favorites. Hurst Olds, any Corvette, Camaro SS to name a few come to mind. No money back then so I had to deal with a stock 2 speed 283 Nova.

Wish I had more money today so I could collect a few of those muscle cars. Oh well............Jay Leno I am not. Very happy with my M.......any issues with yours? I have a few minor complaints about mine, but nothing related to the overall performance of the car. Little picky things I think Infiniti could have done a little better job when they designed/built the car.

But I'm the type of "jerk" that no matter how great a car I will find one or two things that annoy me a little.

[GJEMD]

The 03-04 M45 is a Nissan Gloria(asian market). This model evolved at Nissan from 1974-2004. M45 was the only V8 version. Our M45 was clearly the end of 30 yrs of refinement which generally means few bugs but dated styling. But then you're back to the 67 GTO. I think you'll find the 2006-2007 have had more issues than the 03-04 M45.The numbers are elsewhere in the forum, Z has them, but approximate build #s were 5000 03 and 1800 04s

[myother45isalesbaer]

Thanks again for some excellent info. I wish I could get a hard confirmation on those production numbers. That just confirms my thoughts that this car has classic potential written all over it.

I was toying with the idea of trading it in for a new M45 AWD. Now I am definately putting that thought out of my head.

Thanks.

[CakeDaddy]

I thought the rule was once you go synthetic there is no turning back to regular oil. I thought once the rings/gaskettes(sp) are saturated with synthetic… it’s a done deal from there on out. I’m using syn Mobil1 and so far so good at 32,xxx miles

[myother45isalesbaer]

I had heard that too. I think that was true, but is no longer the case. I had no problems going from regular to syn and back to regular. Maybe its the type of syn? I used Amsoil.

I am going to have to defer to someone who knows oil chemistry better than me. My mechanic is an Infiniti lover. I need to stop by his place tomorrow and will ask him too.

I guess bottom line whatever works best in your car keep with it. Maybe mine just did not like Amsoil and Mobil 1 would have worked. Not sure. The only thing I do know is there are different types/mixes/bases of both syn and regular oil from a chemistry standpoint, but I am no expert on that topic. Maybe somebody at there could help us out.

[Mark Linkous]

Hello,I have used synthetic oil for the past 10,000 miles with no ill effects from going from dino. Check fluids regularly and have had no issues. MinnyQ, if you do not like the styling of the M, why not a 02-06 Q? Though biased, I truly like the way the Y34 looks. Especially with tint. I just could not imagine spending 20k+ on a car and not liking the car. Q's of the same vintage go for almost the same. Aside from a rattle that almost drove me insane(fixed), no issues whatsoever. Take that back, had one of the TPMS sensors replaced. Tire pressure sensors are pretty notorious for being cranky especially in cold weather.Cheers,Mark

[GJEMD]

Quote »I guess bottom line whatever works best in your car keep with it. Maybe mine just did not like Amsoil and Mobil 1 would have worked. Not sure. The only thing I do know is there are different types/mixes/bases of both syn and regular oil from a chemistry standpoint, but I am no expert on that topic. Maybe somebody at there could help us out.[/quote]I use Amsoil and Amsoil filter. The bottom line is if you keep it in drive and use it like a luxury car there will be insensible oil consumption. Drive it like you stole it and you'll need a quart ever 3000-5000/miles. I believe this is the intrinsic nature of the VK 45.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Makes sense to me. Think I should stop trying to break the rev limiter?