oil

[Dystopia]

ok what weight is everyone running, i was thinking 15w50 or 20/50, the guy at a local shop said a he has a 5/40 that works like a 20/40 when running.... any sugestions?

[Jezz_s13]

Mobil 1 15/50 or Castrol RS 10/60 (I prefer)is what we tend to run in the UK, both fully synth.

[biosehnsucht]

"normal" Mobil 1 isn't full synth here in the US, I don't think?

[240 Trainee]

well, per Dee's reccomendation, I will be running valvoline 50w oil in the warmer months, and castrol syntec 10w 40 in the colder months, with .5 quart replaced with lucas oil treatment all the time.

[biosehnsucht]

Dee: (even tho you haven't posted yet) I've seen you list your oil recommendations before, do you recommended out of experience only or do you have some sort of theory / facts to back up your recommendation?

Also, what are your thoughts on for example, Redline? (Crap, ok but not as good, ..?) wondering since we already have an oil thread going..

[Dystopia]

royal purple or motul are what ihavev had recomended to me. i am now a suspention guy doing motor stuff...

[f s t caz]

from Palmer's Oil sticky in the 240 Tech section

And FINALLY: a list of some of the BEST, for turbos in summertime, you may use thicker versions of these exact same ones:http://nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=6610

[pulsar gtr]

Well, I am a big fan of mobile one, I have been using it since 1995 an it has been provedn to me that it is upto the job.If youare planning to run stock engine with stock boost, go with mobile 1 full synethic 10-30, but if you want to boost it , which means the engine will run much hotter, you need to use 15W50.

Thanks,

PULSAR GTR

[PalmerWMD]

"normal" Mobil 1 isn't full synth here in the US, I don't think?

It's a full syn.PolyAlpha Olefin basestock.

A Group IV oil.

Fred...

[PalmerWMD]

1)valvoline 50w oil in the warmer months, and 2)castrol syntec 10w 40 in the colder months, 3)with .5 quart replaced with lucas oil treatment all the time.

1) Not a bad choice (assuming you arent talking about a straight weight) but a full syn in 20w-50 woiuld prtotect your cams better on start-up even in summer and still give you all the hard running thickness you need.

A good thing about straight weights is, they dont use any VII's and are therefore much more stable, BUT no modern engine is designed or a straight weight oil.

Also you can better the stability of even the best straight weight dino's with a multi-vis syn.

2) Why not a 5w-40? Plenty of good 5w-40's around, or 0w-40 for that matter.For example the M1 0w-40 is ACEA A3 rated which mean it will stand up to your turbo and its MB229.5 rated which means its <very> stable even if the large spread from 0w to 40 seems too large to some folks.3) Oil additives can ruin the careful balance in your oil formulation.Only exception I know is BG MOA and it doesnt promise much mostly just that it adds ZDDP ( which is not API permitted due to cat converter concerns in API formulations SJ, SL, SM, reason some folks lose it anyway is its a classicla components of oil and some that are starved of it due to API guidelines may benefit from extra)

Fred...

[PalmerWMD]

Also, what are your thoughts on for example, Redline? (Crap, ok but not as good, ..?) wondering since we already have an oil thread going..

Redline has an ester based lube stock, a so-called group V oil.More expensive to make than even group IV oils ( like M1 or AMSOIL)

Offers superior stablity one of teh best oils money can buy.But in the vast majority of driving situations even if you include some autoXing its essentially matched by M1.

On the other hand Redline oils are really good at low internal coeffcient of frictions and beat out other premium syns ( possibly excluding Boutique oils).

Fred...

[240 Trainee]

I said those weights because that is what was suggested by Dee, and he built my engine, and I trust his judgement on the engine he built. and yes, it is straight 50 oil, valvoline to be exact.

[Jezz_s13]

"normal" Mobil 1 isn't full synth here in the US, I don't think?

Gah, don't you just love consitency.:rolleyes

[PalmerWMD]

I said those weights because that is what was suggested by Dee, and he built my engine, and I trust his judgement on the engine he built. and yes, it is straight 50 oil, valvoline to be exact.

Not wanting to start and arguement and just trying to help out, your man Dee has probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about building engines, but just because I know how to assemble an M16 doesnt mean I know small unit tactics.

The reasons why many mechanics still prefer straight weights is cuz in the old days in performance engines that was the only way to get VII free highly stable oils.

But VII free oils are now available in in 20w-50 in group III, IV and V base stocks.

Even some blends are nearly VII's free in 20w-50 weights.

And the start-up protection of having a multiviscosity oil simply cant be compared to a straight weight.Even in Summer a straight weight 50 is not the right choice.

A 50 weight-yes but not straight, when so many truly stable multivis xw-50 weights are avalable.

There really arent any applications for a straight weight oil anymore, now that multi vis has come such a long way.

Even most racing teams dont use straight weights anymore.

Just like you shouldnt run a race oil in any street applications.A race oil will have lots of extra anti foaming and anti wear additives (which is good), but be short of anti rust additives or detergents (or lack them altogether).

Does Valvoline make a straight 50 in a street oil or is it a race oil you are using?

You are clearly free to use what you wish, but the the original poster asked us for advice.

Fred...

[PalmerWMD]

"normal" Mobil 1 isn't full synth here in the US, I don't think?

Just to make sure, you are asking about <Mobil 1> like you wrote in which case my answer posted above applies, not "Mobil Drive Clean"?

Mobil DriveClean is a group I lube stock, like oils in the 50's ,which has no place in modern performance engines.

Fred...

[240 Trainee]

The valvoline product is sr1 preformance oil, another "division" of valvoline oils. I wonder if/ when Dee will chime in on this...

[PalmerWMD]

the guy at a local shop said a he has a 5/40 that works like a 20/40 when running.... any sugestions?

When runnign they both behave like 40 weights.The only advantage a 20w-40 would have is less or no VII's ( if the innate viscosity index before improvers of the base stock is high enough).

You man is right in that nowadays there are some real good 5w-40s that are real low on polymeric thickeners ( viscosity index Improvers aka VII's).

Also check out one of the links provided in this thread for a list of great oils that meet specs (ACAE) much more demanding than API specs.

Fred...

[Doogz]

Isn't it bad to run oils that are so far spread apart in their viscocities? Like 5w40s for example, don't they have to add a bunch of extra crap or something to make the oil perform like that? I always heard it would be better to run an oil with less of a range.

[PalmerWMD]

-Isn't it bad to run oils that are so far spread apart in their viscocities? -Like 5w40s for example, don't they have to add a bunch of extra crap or something to make the oil perform like that? -I always heard it would be better to run an oil with less of a range.

Everything you heard is correct, but nowadays with so many oils out tehre whose innate viscosity index is high and less VII's are used its not quite that simple anymore:

if all other things are equal, the answer is yes, its generally "bad".

Back in the day, almost every oil was a group I base oil, with little innate ability to display a multiviscosity spread ( this is called viscosity index)This was improved upon with polymeric thickeners which brought multiviscosity oils into widespread use in the late 40's early 50's.

For example, to achieve a 5w-30, you took a 5 weight oil and added polymeric thickeners ( so called viscosity index improvers, VII's), which uncoil under raising temp and grab other molecules exerting a thickening effect.

Multiviscosaity oils were a big advance.

The disadavantege was, that these VII's break down themselves, thinning out the oil in the process and turning into varnish in your engine after a while ( in turbo engiens quicker than in others).

Also these extra VII's have to find "room" in your oil formulation and will therefore reduce the %age of other important additives in your oil.

Within the same quality base stock used: The less range the less VII's used, which mean a more stable and cleaner running oil.

It then follows, when using multivis, to use a smaller spread like 10w-30, 15-w40 or 20w-50, rather than say 5w-30 ( a horrible grade in a dino oils it makes no sense why manufacturers are recommednignit as a year around oil, I guess they dont trust folks to change by the seasons)

Nowadays some of the better Dino oils use group II base stock or even group II+ ( like Chevrons "isosyn" or Pennzoils "purebase"), those have much better innate multivis behaviour and so need less VII's to achieve multi vis.

Synthetic oils which run from group III oils (hydroisomerized, examples Syntec, Kendall Syn, Valvoline SynPower) to group IV (PAO 's more expensive a bit better, example Mobil1 + AMSOIL) to group V (most stable Redline, MOTUL).

All synthetic oils are safe to run in bigger spreads, whether its 5w-40 Valvoline SYnPower or 5w-40 Kendall Synthetich both good oils.

With a group IV oil Mobil1 can make a 0w-40 which is equally stable as the 5w-40 SynPower which is a group III.

Redline now has a 10w-40 that is VII's free which is amazing for such a wide spread and wouldnt be possible VII-less, w/o using a polyolester base group.

Other factors though apply too.There are VII's of different quality, while its easy for us to find out the base lubestock of a given oil (from the MSDS) its harder to find out about those.

So not every group IV is automatically superior to every group III.And not every group III is automatically superior to every group II+.

the rest of the additive package has a significant effect too, so the above isnt always a clear cut guide to whats "better".

Fred...

[Myetball]

If you're up for a $150 oil conversion CLICK HERE. Never have to change your oil again, just change the filter every 20,000 miles and top it off. Well, it is only warranted for 10yrs or 150,000 miles so if you keep your car long enough you may need to do an oil change.

[Notchbackca]

that lucas treatment is crap, makes it so bubles cannot escape suspension and you get frothing, and frothing is really bad... I can even froth the oil in those little displays by turning the little metal handle

[slw240sx]

yeah me too . did you see the online review where the guy did all those tests on it and how bad id caused foaming.

ill be running mobil1 15w50 again or amsoil not sure which yet

[s13sr20chris]

fred knows his stuff about oil. just in case you dont take his word for it, i will vouche that everything he said is inline with the information i have. he knows way more than me, i just want to second his opinion.

[PalmerWMD]

Chris:

Thank you for the kind words!

Fred...

[float_6969]

When it comes to oils, we all need to :bowdown to Fred.

[boost_boy]

Well, after 3 years of 8000+rpm clutch dumps, over 7 years of researching products with the CA18DET and using the same oil products in all my cars to include: 1991-1993 Ford Taurus SHOs, High compressioned mitsubishi 4G63 motors x 2, Toyota Camry, Toyota Corolla, CA18DET powered Nissan Sentras in excess of 300 daily whp and also to include multiple customers cars, I can say that they work for me. First of all, I live in an extremely hot climate. Second, most of the performance engines are already used, so 5-10weights are out of the question. I drive hard and need an oil that not only lubricate, but reduce shock from excessive abuse.

I can't sit here and decipher the technical terms used in this post, but I can tell you that there's no teacher better than experience and I would like to think that my experiences qualify as "Valid" .

I recommended valvoline straight oils for racing. I know theres different categories of racing, but with this oil you can do either as I've experienced it as the more flexible of the buch because of it's formulation.

I personally used to use Castrol 20w50 syntec blend and use Lucas oil Stabilizer. Then I had been using greased lightning oil because it was teflon based and was very good on protecting my camshafts. They discontinued it at allthe auto parts stores in vicinity, so I revert back to the 20W50 syntec blend and the lucas oil stabilzer. It works for me and I have never lost a bottom end whilst using these combinations. I have seen engines that knock with the full synthetic stuff and even the Royal purple brand.

I'm not trying to bad mouth either brand, so please use whatever you want. I gave 240trainee my recommendation because I built his engine and since it's the same one as I own and I have had a few, I know it works.

And if proof is needed:

After thrashing it for 3 years and with rod bearing so pretty and grey, why should I switch to anything else. But the beauty of it is, you guys can use whatever oils you want. It's your motor and your money and I do believe that all oils are pretty competent, but I am not too quick to choose the lighter 5 and 10 weights.

Dee

[boost_boy]

And to Fred,

That's some show of technical knowledge about oils and I commend you. My knowledge on oils extends only to viscosity breakdowns and personal experiences. I can only add that none of my customers ever had knocking issues, oil pump failures and oil sneaking through seals and things of that nature. These guys will ultimately have to decide what they think is right for their car/motor as I can only speak of what I know that works for the CA18 and cars that I've wrenched on

Dee

[s13sr20chris]

your testimony of what works is a darn powerfull statement. if it works it works.