Oil consumption---Need advice

[bdavis007]

I have a 2006 M45 with 71K. I just had the dealer change the oil, I do it myself once a year and have them do it once a year as well. I asked them to account for the oil that is drained and it came to 3.75 quarts. There was about 3500 miles during the interval and I even added a half quart two weeks ago. (about two quarts short)

I know this topic has been rehashed numerous times, but I would like to know what my options are. Is this covered by the powertrain warranty? If not, is there anyway Infiniti will remedy the issue?

If they do nothing are there oils that people have been using to limit the consumption? I use M1 5-30.

I am a young professional and love Infiniti and would like to continue to purchase them, but they have know this to be an issue for a long time.....

Thanks in advance!!!!

[sstroudwku]

Basic answer - No - Nissan's spec for oil consumption is up to 1qt per 1000miles driven. so only being 2qts low in 3500 miles puts you within spec.

[bdavis007]

Steve,
Thanks for the prompt reply! Should I just being adding a quart every 1000 miles?

[sstroudwku]

No, you should check the oil every 1000k just as routine. I believe the spec is crazy but I just wanted to warn you before you ask the dealer to fix it. Now if you honestly think you have an issue I would pay to have a compression test and leak down test performed on the engine. This could give you an idea of what is going on in your engine. You should have less than a 14psi variation across all cylinders. Look for blue smoke on start up, that could indicate valve seals worn and seeping a bit of oil into the cylinders. I am un able to mentally picture the dash at the moment, however, if there is an analog oil pressure gauge does it fluctuate with acceleration? Also, it could be something simple as a PCV stuck partially open. If you do some routine stuff yourself you can check these fairly easily. Just pull the PCV hoses off the valve covers and inspect them for excessive oil. Inspect the intake tube "airbox - throttlebody" for oil in the ripples. Let me know.

[bdavis007]

I have noticed the blue smoke before, but it is intermittent and seems only to happen when I extend the change interval, over 7K. Have the dealer do the consumption test? I only ask because I live about 3 hours from an Infiniti dealer.I have been going to the local Nissan dealer....and their knowledge is very limited. It is an analog gauge.

Ill try and check the PCV valve this weekend.

Also, what oil do you recommend for this engine? As mentioned I have been using M1 5-30, but I was thinkingabout trying AMS oil.

[sstroudwku]

I use BMW Performance Full Syn 5w30. It's rated at 15k intervals in BMWs, I drive an 11 370 and chance my oil every 5k. It's got Ester in it and helps reduce the chatter of the VVEL. Also it's damn cheap for it's quality. I pay 6.44/qt at the local dealer, but I get it at employee cost due to the quantities I purchase it in. If you're noticing more blue with extended oil change intervals it could be break down of the valve seals. These are not cheap repairs. An oil consumption test is simply they mark where the oil is when it's filled and then measure it at the next service. Typically they seal the drain plug with a paint or warranty seal to ensure it's not tampered with.

[myother45isalesbaer]

I have a 2006 M45 with 71K. I just had the dealer change the oil, I do it myself once a year and have them do it once a year as well. I asked them to account for the oil that is drained and it came to 3.75 quarts. There was about 3500 miles during the interval and I even added a half quart two weeks ago. (about two quarts short)

I know this topic has been rehashed numerous times, but I would like to know what my options are. Is this covered by the powertrain warranty? If not, is there anyway Infiniti will remedy the issue?

If they do nothing are there oils that people have been using to limit the consumption? I use M1 5-30.

I am a young professional and love Infiniti and would like to continue to purchase them, but they have know this to be an issue for a long time.....

Thanks in advance!!!!

I am the odd man out and probably going to take a beating for what I going to post. My M eats syn oil like it going out of style. I have tried various brands and it can gobble up 3 quarts in 1,000 miles. I went back to just plain old regular dino oil and my consumption fell to less than a quart every 3,000 miles. I now use only regular oil. I don't know why my M likes regular oil instead of syn.

You may want to try the switch. I'm currently using 10w30 Quaker State. I do have a theory on high oil consumption and that is the manufacturers of many cars are going for the light weight oil to get better EPA mileage results. Many on this site swear by the syn oils. I do not. Back in the old days I ran 10w40 in all my cars. The big block V8's did just fine on that oil with no consumption between 3,000 mile changes. Just my opinion.

[cruzad3r]

i kinda have the same theory as you (myother45issalesbaer) dude you gotta post your name. your forum sn is way tooo dam long.

anyway back on topic. i used mobile 5/30 synthetic on this car for about 2 almost three years and at first, i didn't notice any oil consumption. but about a year ago, i start noticing the amount of oil drained was not equal the amount of oil fill. so i swap over to blended version the last oil change hoping the consumption will go away. Another way of treating this issue is to change your oil every 3k miles. so instead of wasting money on high end oil, just use normal oil and change it more often.

Jake

[myother45isalesbaer]

i kinda have the same theory as you (myother45issalesbaer) dude you gotta post your name. your forum sn is way tooo dam long.

anyway back on topic. i used mobile 5/30 synthetic on this car for about 2 almost three years and at first, i didn't notice any oil consumption. but about a year ago, i start noticing the amount of oil drained was not equal the amount of oil fill. so i swap over to blended version the last oil change hoping the consumption will go away. Another way of treating this issue is to change your oil every 3k miles. so instead of wasting money on high end oil, just use normal oil and change it more often.

Jake

Mr. Jake,

You are right about my sign in name. Its a long story, but I own several 45's and they are not all cars. How do I go about changing my sign in name? Your analysis of the oil consumption issue I think is pretty close to what many posters are complaining about. My dealer told me these cars DO NOT need syn oil. I am a firm proponent of 3,000 changes with regular oil. My OP.

[bdavis007]

Sounds like I'll move to dino oil........I have always been a synthetic guy!!!!!! It will be hard. Any Dino oil recommendations? I know it is a syn, but what about AMS?

[myother45isalesbaer]

Sounds like I'll move to dino oil........I have always been a synthetic guy!!!!!! It will be hard. Any Dino oil recommendations? I know it is a syn, but what about AMS?

If by AMS you are referring to Amsoil, that is pure junk regardless of the hype that it is getting. I'd go with any and I do mean any top quality oil with the proper filter ( the syn filters are not the same a regular oil filters) with a 10 or 5w30 weight. Personally I like Castrol, Quaker State, just about any regular oil that meets the car specs. I don't think the brand makes much of a difference as long as it certified to meet the specs of the car. Best of good luck to you!!!

[myother45isalesbaer]

Sounds like I'll move to dino oil........I have always been a synthetic guy!!!!!! It will be hard. Any Dino oil recommendations? I know it is a syn, but what about AMS?

If by AMS you are referring to Amsoil, that is pure junk regardless of the hype that it is getting. I'd go with any and I do mean any top quality oil with the proper filter ( the syn filters are not the same a regular oil filters) with a 10 or 5w30 weight. Personally I like Castrol, Quaker State, just about any regular oil that meets the car specs. I don't think the brand makes much of a difference as long as it certified to meet the specs of the car. Best of good luck to you!!!

I have to add to my last post. Many owners get all wound up and swear this and that oil is the best. I just cannot buy into that attitude. Oil is oil. Its job is to lubricate internal engine parts. That is pretty much the bottom line on oil. All the BS about this one being better than that one is just really BS advertising hype. Buy what you think is best and works best in your car and forget all the oil posts on this site. Let us know what you find is the best for your machine. I would be very interested!

[cji4130]

my 06 m35x is also consuming and unreasonable amount of oil (around 3 quarts every 2500 miles) i use full synthetic 10-30, with new filters every time...i usually top it off to get a couple more miles between oil change intervals, no smoke from the exhaust, car runs flawlessly. im used to it now and the consumption issue doesnt even bother me anymore.

[myother45isalesbaer]

my 06 m35x is also consuming and unreasonable amount of oil (around 3 quarts every 2500 miles) i use full synthetic 10-30, with new filters every time...i usually top it off to get a couple more miles between oil change intervals, no smoke from the exhaust, car runs flawlessly. im used to it now and the consumption issue doesnt even bother me anymore.

What can I say. Get off that high priced over hyped synthetic junk oil and buy some real oil. That's my OP. The hype about how good the syn oil is in my OP is just that, advertising BS hype. Go ask any farmer what he is running in his high usage tractors running 24/7 and I will bet he will not tell you syn oil. What other machine gets beat up day by day, all four seasons from sun up to sun down. Think ABOUT it a little. Syn oil is a marketing scam in my OP. Run what you want. I know what works for me and it is not syn oil. Never worked in my cars or my motorcycles. I just do not think it is worth a s***. My OP.

[EniGmA1987]

I am the odd man out and probably going to take a beating for what I going to post. My M eats syn oil like it going out of style. I have tried various brands and it can gobble up 3 quarts in 1,000 miles. I went back to just plain old regular dino oil and my consumption fell to less than a quart every 3,000 miles. I now use only regular oil. I don't know why my M likes regular oil instead of syn.

You may want to try the switch. I'm currently using 10w30 Quaker State. I do have a theory on high oil consumption and that is the manufacturers of many cars are going for the light weight oil to get better EPA mileage results. Many on this site swear by the syn oils. I do not. Back in the old days I ran 10w40 in all my cars. The big block V8's did just fine on that oil with no consumption between 3,000 mile changes. Just my opinion.

The car is supposed to be used with dino oil anyway, not synthetic. People run synthetic perfectly fine but as you said the oil consumption by the engine is crazy with synthetic. Mine isnt that bad but I definitely saw the change when I went from dino to synthetic a little while ago. My car does eat up 1 quart every 1000 miles now.

My father had an interesting theory on it. The synthetic oil is better because it has a perfect molecular structure compared to dino oil, it is also designed to better leave behind a thin film to help protect engine parts. He had the theory that this more even molecular structure might let the oil compress itself a bit more to give the appearance of being not as much and also that because it is better able to leave this thin film behind that it could simply be better coating the engine internals and there is less left in the pan because of it.

[bdavis007]

A lot of good info in this thread! I will update you on the consumption after my next change (I went with the dealer synthetic)

Keep the content coming!

Thanks

[sstroudwku]

There is some good info in this. However, "oil is the same" is not true. I've had to tear apart way to many engines that have excellent service records that are filled with sludge and build up. The common denominator is always these cars are serviced at quick lanes using bulk oils. The 3 most common are Valvoline, Pennzoil, and Havoline. If you want to use a middle of the road oil use Motorcraft, it's a syn blend.

Synthetics are not junk. There is a reason exotic and luxury manufacturers use them exclusively. They do provide a better wear protection over conventional oil, this has been proven time and again in bearing wear simulation tests and real world engine tests. You WILL see consumption when using a synthetic, the oil is very thin and has a way to find the smallest of holes. I've seen engines start leaking with synthetics where as if you ran a conventional it was fine.

The oil debate could go one for a long time. With the rising costs of oil these days people are always looking for a bargain. Which is why I suggested the BMW performance oil. As for 3000mile intervals, that's long been proven as a sales gimmick. Reason is to get you into a service center every 3 months to try and sell you something.

[myother45isalesbaer]

I am the odd man out and probably going to take a beating for what I going to post. My M eats syn oil like it going out of style. I have tried various brands and it can gobble up 3 quarts in 1,000 miles. I went back to just plain old regular dino oil and my consumption fell to less than a quart every 3,000 miles. I now use only regular oil. I don't know why my M likes regular oil instead of syn.

You may want to try the switch. I'm currently using 10w30 Quaker State. I do have a theory on high oil consumption and that is the manufacturers of many cars are going for the light weight oil to get better EPA mileage results. Many on this site swear by the syn oils. I do not. Back in the old days I ran 10w40 in all my cars. The big block V8's did just fine on that oil with no consumption between 3,000 mile changes. Just my opinion.

The car is supposed to be used with dino oil anyway, not synthetic. People run synthetic perfectly fine but as you said the oil consumption by the engine is crazy with synthetic. Mine isnt that bad but I definitely saw the change when I went from dino to synthetic a little while ago. My car does eat up 1 quart every 1000 miles now.

My father had an interesting theory on it. The synthetic oil is better because it has a perfect molecular structure compared to dino oil, it is also designed to better leave behind a thin film to help protect engine parts. He had the theory that this more even molecular structure might let the oil compress itself a bit more to give the appearance of being not as much and also that because it is better able to leave this thin film behind that it could simply be better coating the engine internals and there is less left in the pan because of it.

Your father's theory is interesting. Leaving a thin coating behind is supposed to be one of the big benefits of synthetic oil. As to the molecular structure of the oil that may be true too. I'm no chemist so what do I know? I am just not buying into that synthetic oil is better than regular old dino oil. All oil companies make claims that theirs is better than someone else's. That they have "special" additives that do wonderful things. I'm old enough to remember when "detergent" oil was all the rave. The big deal today is you pay more for synthetic oil put you can go longer between oil changes and save money. Well, I am going by what I know. I'll use regular oil and change it every 3,000 miles. I consume less and prefer to dump it more often to get rid of the "dirt" in the oil and collected in the filter. My brother-in-law has a 1993 Taurus SHO with the Yamaha motor. I recommended he stay away from the synthetic oils and stay with a top quality dino oil. The motor now has close to 180,000 miles on it. Recent compression check was up to original specs. His consumption is at most a quarter of a quart per every 3,000 mile change. I swear that motor will hit 300,000 miles if not more before it dies.

My personal experience with synthetic oil and my brother-in-law's has convinced me to stick with regular oil. My OP.

[myother45isalesbaer]

There is some good info in this. However, "oil is the same" is not true. I've had to tear apart way to many engines that have excellent service records that are filled with sludge and build up. The common denominator is always these cars are serviced at quick lanes using bulk oils. The 3 most common are Valvoline, Pennzoil, and Havoline. If you want to use a middle of the road oil use Motorcraft, it's a syn blend.

Synthetics are not junk. There is a reason exotic and luxury manufacturers use them exclusively. They do provide a better wear protection over conventional oil, this has been proven time and again in bearing wear simulation tests and real world engine tests. You WILL see consumption when using a synthetic, the oil is very thin and has a way to find the smallest of holes. I've seen engines start leaking with synthetics where as if you ran a conventional it was fine.

The oil debate could go one for a long time. With the rising costs of oil these days people are always looking for a bargain. Which is why I suggested the BMW performance oil. As for 3000mile intervals, that's long been proven as a sales gimmick. Reason is to get you into a service center every 3 months to try and sell you something.

All I can say is we all have our OP's. I can argue this matter to hell freezes over. I have torn down a few motors in my time and found sludge build up due to not changing oil at regular intervals. I would never go to a quick change oil place as you don't know what they are using and if they are changing the filter. So I will stay with my OP on regular oil.

[atlM35]

It's common in the 35 and 45.
The smoke at startup is actually by design with pooling in the PCV system. When your oil gets low enough, you'll hear valve noise and I wouldn't wait until then to check it out. Check it every so often in between oil changes to make sure that you have a good oil level to keep everything lubricated. If not, then draining 3.5 to 3.75qts sounds about right.
As for the conventional vs. synthetic debate, it's your personal preference.

[myother45isalesbaer]

It's common in the 35 and 45.
The smoke at startup is actually by design with pooling in the PCV system. When your oil gets low enough, you'll hear valve noise and I wouldn't wait until then to check it out. Check it every so often in between oil changes to make sure that you have a good oil level to keep everything lubricated. If not, then draining 3.5 to 3.75qts sounds about right.
As for the conventional vs. synthetic debate, it's your personal preference.

My Lord, help me here. I could swear a few months ago I wrote the almost exact post you did. You are so right in my opinion about everything you stated. I'll add another tidbit in favor of regular oil although it is not completely relevant to our cars. A few years back we lost power for nine days due to a freak snow storm. I fired up my 20hp Kohler generator and ran it 9 days straight. I basically beat the snot out of it. I had more trouble getting gasoline for it than anything else. It has a low oil automatic shut down feature so you don't burn the engine out. After 9 days, 24 hours per day it was never shut down. It was born and raised on regular oil. Its over 20 years old. I took the head off the other day to see the kind of wear it had. Its a flat head so looking at the internals was pretty easy. End analysis was no carbon, no sludge, no wear to speak of. This engine sits for months before it gets pounded like I did. It does not even have an oil filter. I abuse this machine and it does smoke a little on start up. I think I did an oil change around 5+ years ago. I need to do another one. No synthetic for this bad boy. Top of the line regular oil all the way. And I am sticking with top of the line regular oil for my M45 too. I fully support top of the line regular oil and synthetic is just a marketing rip off. That's my OP. All you synthetic advocates can bring on the wonders of syn oil and I will debate point by point that regular oil still rules.

[Larz]

My 2-pence about motor oil.

Synthetic oil and regular oil have a major difference, chemically speaking. Synthetic motor oil is NOT petroleum based - it's created in a lab and is a higher quality lubricant than regular motor oil. It's molecularly equal in shape and size making it more slippery and more stable than regular oil (petroleum consists of naturally irregular molecdules, lest it would not burn so readily). It has been proven scientifically over and over to maintian viscosity at higher temps than regular oil with no measurable breakdown and it also has been proven to flow more freely though the oil filter at cold start-ups (regular motor oil gets thicker in the cold). That is pure proven science, not an advert or an opinion and that is the ONLY difference, chemically, between reg and synthetic oil. However, that does NOT mean that regular oil is no good, or even less good for the life of your engine.
Synthetic oil will allow you to go 2-3 times longer between oil changes but it also costs 2-3 times more, so no difference over time financially. I don't race my car on a track, nor do I like in Alaska, so it's cold start and high temp properties are great, but not relevant to my car. Although synthetic oils are not petroleum based, they do contain chemicals just as harmful to the environment, so synthetic is NOT a 'green' alternative. Also, there are detergent-based ingredients in BOTH regular and synthetic motor oils so I don't believe either type actually 'cleans' your engine any better. For every person who swears that synthetic oil has given them 300k miles on their car, there is a person who has the same results with regular oil.

So why do I personally use synthetic oil?
1) Synthetic oil, because of its composition, cannot bond with moisture. It cannot form sludge-like molecules inside the engine that are burned off and expelled as higher CO emissions and increased air pollutants. Synthetic oil is, if you will, a higher evolution of the species. There are no 100% biodegradeable lubricants suitable for engines, but when one becomes available, I will switch from synthetic to that one.
2) I do not expect my engine to out-live or out-perform engines using regular motor oil and I firmly believe that with regular changes, either oil is "fine" for your engine. I do not expect higher mpg or increased horsepower. I do not expect to save money using synthetic oil. I just want the best lubricant for my engine and synthetic is the only non-petroleum dependant, least polluting, and most stable lubricant available. I don't mind paying a little extra to lubricate my engine while reducing my pollution and petroleum dependence at the same time.

[merlinq2]

good bit of writing there Larz, it makes sense and at the bottom line of this is one fact- preference and your pocketbook provide you with the best oil for your car. No one solution will fit everyone!

[axefire]

Nice Larz.

I used synth strictly except my last 2 oil changes because people here saying dino doesn't burn as much and no difference in performance.

I change my oil every 3 to 4k, if I get lazy I may go to 5k. I burn a quart every 1 to 2K easy. Thought it was just me, but learned our Ms are oil eaters.

Based on Larz's post I'm going back to synth, and will not mind paying extra if it means no yuck deposits or yuck build up. That alone to me is huge.

I asked about slick 50 before, and thought I'd bring it up again, see what people think? Every car I've owned since the 80s, I've slick 50ed every 50k. Haven't done my M but think I will considering the positive track record I've had with it...

[merlinq2]

is that stuff still around? I thought that went away, but do what makes you have peace of mind.

[axefire]

Yup...

http://www.slick50.com/ourProducts/synt ... ment.shtml

[merlinq2]

wow

[myother45isalesbaer]

My 2-pence about motor oil.

Synthetic oil and regular oil have a major difference, chemically speaking. Synthetic motor oil is NOT petroleum based - it's created in a lab and is a higher quality lubricant than regular motor oil. It's molecularly equal in shape and size making it more slippery and more stable than regular oil (petroleum consists of naturally irregular molecdules, lest it would not burn so readily). It has been proven scientifically over and over to maintian viscosity at higher temps than regular oil with no measurable breakdown and it also has been proven to flow more freely though the oil filter at cold start-ups (regular motor oil gets thicker in the cold). That is pure proven science, not an advert or an opinion and that is the ONLY difference, chemically, between reg and synthetic oil. However, that does NOT mean that regular oil is no good, or even less good for the life of your engine.
Synthetic oil will allow you to go 2-3 times longer between oil changes but it also costs 2-3 times more, so no difference over time financially. I don't race my car on a track, nor do I like in Alaska, so it's cold start and high temp properties are great, but not relevant to my car. Although synthetic oils are not petroleum based, they do contain chemicals just as harmful to the environment, so synthetic is NOT a 'green' alternative. Also, there are detergent-based ingredients in BOTH regular and synthetic motor oils so I don't believe either type actually 'cleans' your engine any better. For every person who swears that synthetic oil has given them 300k miles on their car, there is a person who has the same results with regular oil.

So why do I personally use synthetic oil?
1) Synthetic oil, because of its composition, cannot bond with moisture. It cannot form sludge-like molecules inside the engine that are burned off and expelled as higher CO emissions and increased air pollutants. Synthetic oil is, if you will, a higher evolution of the species. There are no 100% biodegradeable lubricants suitable for engines, but when one becomes available, I will switch from synthetic to that one.
2) I do not expect my engine to out-live or out-perform engines using regular motor oil and I firmly believe that with regular changes, either oil is "fine" for your engine. I do not expect higher mpg or increased horsepower. I do not expect to save money using synthetic oil. I just want the best lubricant for my engine and synthetic is the only non-petroleum dependant, least polluting, and most stable lubricant available. I don't mind paying a little extra to lubricate my engine while reducing my pollution and petroleum dependence at the same time.

Larz,

That is by far the most intelligent post I've seen in a long time. From doing my own research on synthetic oil I happen to agree with all the points you made. However I am still going to stick with my regular oil. Synthetic oil for some reason I do not completely understand, maybe its just too thin, does not work in my cars or any of my other power equipment. They all eat it big time. My only theory is a lot of engines just are not designed with tight enough tolerances to handle synthetic oil. Excellent post by you. Personally I am sticking with regular oil.

[cruzad3r]

so much about oil - let's me add more gasoline to the fire


MOBIL 1 SYNTHETIC IS THE WAY TO GOOOOOO

that's all - have a nice day all!

[Larz]

Larz,

That is by far the most intelligent post I've seen in a long time. From doing my own research on synthetic oil I happen to agree with all the points you made. However I am still going to stick with my regular oil. Synthetic oil for some reason I do not completely understand, maybe its just too thin, does not work in my cars or any of my other power equipment. They all eat it big time. My only theory is a lot of engines just are not designed with tight enough tolerances to handle synthetic oil. Excellent post by you. Personally I am sticking with regular oil.

Thank you! I have no clue why, but my M does not eat oil - at least not enough to show a noticeable drop on the dip stick. I can't say it has anything to do with the type of oil I use, so I won't. I guess I've just been lucky so far. Now that I see how many of you are adding oil, I will continue to keep a close eyeball on it.