Oil burning in new Q

[pdl1]

My 2002 Q (one of the earliest built) burns about a quart every 1500 miles. No evident leaks. The dealer refuses to investigate the problem. What can I do?

[Q451990]

That's no good! I'd have a competent tech. do a leak-down and compression test to see what's going on. Have you tried calling Infiniti Consumer affairs? They've always been useless in my tries, but with an almost new car, you may get more attention.

You might have to buy a service manual to get the specs. but I'm sure something is out to see that much consumption. I assume you don't see any leaks, etc.?

I'm sure Q45Tech will have some advice for you too.

Heath

[Q45tech]

Some of the 2002 motors had problems with the rings seating [sealing] correctly [hearsay no direct experience]...........but like most companies Nissan said that was in the normal range.

Yet my 1990 engine with 244k burns less than a quarter of that amount, about a pint in 3,000 miles with Mobil 1. But the engine design is different so you cannot compare them!

You didn't tell us what your current mileage is?

The STS caddy and other versions were burning a quart at less than 1,000 miles and GM said that was ok.

No spec for oil consumption just the warranty that the engine will last 70k.........there is a spec for compression in service manual but it probably meets the minimum ..........pay to find out because this is your only hope to get a new engine! THAT it fails the test.....video tape the proceedure and hire an outside expert to observe! Scare them enough with facts and they might bend.

I have heard of 4 or 5 others!

[Mayhem_J30]

Wow Paul, that's disturbing on such a new vehicle, especially on the almight 4.5

Q45tech, How can GM say that burning a quart at under a 1000 miles is OK? That's crazy. I understand that vehicle owner's "should" check they're oil everytime they drive, but that doesn't happen in the world as people are accustomed to oil always remaining in the motor unless an apparent leek is noted. If the vehicle is new, I can NOT justify having to put oil in it once every 1-2 weeks after spending $XX,XXX.

[Q451990]

I have a written statement on Ford letterhead saying that one quart every 900 miles is normal after break-in, with 500 miles during the break-in period!

Can't imagine how these ever got on the windshields of dealership cars late on a Saturday night for the Sunday crowd at the dealership that screwed me on that Mercury Cougar I had.

Heath

[Q451990]

No spec for oil consumption just the warranty that the engine will last 70k

I think I'd make sure somehow that it didn't make it out of the warranty if they don't resolve the problem. Of course, I'd get the compression and leak-down tests completed first and try all of the other options...

Heath

[Q45tech]

The new design light duty [floating cylinder liners] designed to save money/weight as used on 3.5 and 4.5 ......only time will tell when these babies get beyond 100k whether they have the longevity. But the older ones were tooooooooooo well designed they could last to 250k.

[VimyJ]

Interesting what with Q45tech's 5/20 oil thread and now the floating cylinder liners that engine life is being purposely decreased. Has the theory of planned obsolescence finally come to Japan? I know I heard a few years ago that Toyota dealerships were getting into financial trouble because they were performing so little maintenance work. This lead some of the more unscrupulous dealers to rip off customers and end up in court.

[pdl1]

Thanks guys. The car has 30,000 miles. I called Consumer affairs but they were little help. Florida has a "lemon law" and I may have to invole it!

[Q451990]

I'd go ahead with it immediately before you loose options!

Heath

[autotech43]

There ARE a few of the new Q engines using a small amount of engine oil, and Q45 tech hit the nail on the head with this one. The problem is the rings are taking longer to seat, and Infiniti will be concerned when addressing the problem of the mileage on the vehicle with this concern. Infiniti will require an oil consumption test from a dealer before taking any action on the matter. From Infiniti, an engine with 10,000 miles or more still using engine oil, they will look at that issue seriously, compared to an engine with just a couple thousand miles. It reminds you of the older days when overhauls were quite frequent, (what type of rings to use)? I remember some techs trying to get the chrome style piston ring to seat, and if the cylinder wall and bore wasnt perfect, they may never seat. The Hastings steel ring use to be one of my favorite, regarding accelerated ring seating!But that is then and this is now. I know one of our Q customers is a traveling salesman, and he also has mentioned and oil usage a period of the first two oil changes, but remember, an engine that runs a CONSTANT rpm wil require more miles to seat piston rings, as to an engine that gets some stop and go runs during break in. There was a good thread posted regarding engine break in which has some useful information for folks.I will be going to the FX35-45 new model training next week, I will ask a few questions regarding the Q engine and also see if other techs from other states and dealers are running into that concern as well.I would recommend letting the engine sit for a short period, or say check the oil the first thing in the morning to let all the oil drain back to the pan, you would be surprised on how much oil that particular engine holds on the top side!I am currently performing a consumtion test on one of our customers new Q's, we will see how things go.Good thread, and I also would be concerned!!!

[PalmerWMD]

For what it's worth:

I have found that at least the VH45DE's are <very> sensitive to time spent waiting and eveness of terrain when checking oil.

At times drivers think they are using oil when an overnight wait on even surface gives more accurate results and higher oil level readings.I wonder if the Vk45DE's are similiar in that respect..Fred...

[crubio]

I have a 90 Q (bone stock) with 107k and runs strong with all current maintenance. My Q uses about a quart of oil about every 3k - 5k. It does not leak a drop of anything. I get regular oil changes every 3k. Also lately I only get about 10 miles to the gallon. What's up with this?

crubio

[PalmerWMD]

Also lately I only get about 10 miles to the gallon. What's up with this?

crubio

Other causes are possible but(short of bad plugs and or terribly clogged TB) I'd bet money on MAF and/or MAF connector.

Fred...

[greg_atlanta]

My '92 Q burned about half a quart of conventional 5W-30 between oil changes but burns NO oil using 10W-30 full synthetic.

[Q45tech]

All oil have an evaporation spec and many conventional oils will loose 20% [1 quart in 3,750 miles] in summer heat.The ligher portion of the base stock just goes up in smoke and burns via the PCV system..........much of the plenum/tb goop is from conventional oils.

Add what ever gets by the rings and valve stem seals to the above.

One must understnd the various grades of base stock used in oil [any lubricants including ATF and diff/ps].......non hydrocracked is the worst [most cheap oils].....those under a buck specials.........even under $1.50 per quart is iffy.

If a barrel of crude cost $35/42gallons= 0.83 or 0.208 per quart............plus transport...........by the time the base stock gets out of the refinery 37 cents a quart for the Base I, and 42 cents for the Base II [hydrogenated]................BOY does than extra nickel help your engine.

As we all know material cost get multiplied by 5-7 times in the retail price........$1.00 vs $1.50-$1.70 oil

Synthetics HAVE HALF or less the evaporation of conventional hydrocracked oils and 2/3 less than cheapo base stocks!

[Q45tech]

After a few years on the boards I am dissapointed that members cannot draw a complete refinery and describe in detail all the steps [from the well head to the pump/can] and chemical reactions and Cost.

Not doing your mandated 4 hours per day of studies how will you ever hope to graduate to engine design!

[natsoundup]

My 90Q doesn't burn a drop between 3k mile oil changes.

The oil didn't even change much in color until about 120k...now at 150k....

On the other hand my wife's Ford Expedition always burns a quart in between 3k oil changes...it has 82k. Never had a lick of trouble with it.

[pdl1]

Thanks for all the interesting Posts. I am undergoing a 1000 mile factory supervisied oil consumption check. I'll let you know the result and action taken next week.Paul D.

[juiceman]

Has the theory of planned obsolescence finally come to Japan?

Always been there!

I personally knew a Japanese design engineer from Nissan in 1990, his wife gave me japanese lessons while he was studying for his MBA in NYC

He said, off the record, that nissan designs a 60K life expectancy in all their cars. That is before things start going wrong. of course the bell shape curve applies and there will always be initial fallout with alot of problems. He told me that the average engine life expectancy was 100K without using too much oil and having major engine problems. As long as it was maintiained well

They wanted the car to become too troublesome to keep so you would buy another one.

I asked him why would I buy another one when I had so many problems? He just grumbled in Japanese

[VimyJ]

He told me that the average engine life expectancy was 100K without using too much oil and having major engine problems. As long as it was maintiained well

That statement certainly makes the factory recommended maintenance schedule look a little suspect, eh?, which is a topic that has appeared here from time to time.

There is a lot that goes into building a line of cars. Not merely the engineering but also figuring how how to make a return on the fantastic amount of capital that must be laid down to build factories, arrange marketing, transporatation, etc. Must be some kind of weird mathematical formulas they use to calculate margins. Unfirtunately for he J30 owner, they were making a mistake somewhere in the marketing department in the 80's that forced them to discontinue the J. I hope they come back with a new J sometime. A 6 banger with more luxury than the G35.

[Q45tech]

Inflation and yen vs dollar: A $33,000 car today has to be a stripped down version of its former self, a $33,000 car of yesterday!A 1990 Q produced today [after 13 years of inflation] at the levels of fit and finish [leather quality] would have to sell for $75,000.........instead of the $38k introductory price.

It was one thing when you could sell 15,000 Q per year now with the market at only 4,000?

"hope they come back with a new J sometime. A 6 banger with more luxury than the G35."They tried that in the 97Q [it had a smaller V8 that acted like a bigger V6] and they ran specials at around $45,000.

I would think the M45 if you could move it with the 3.5 V6 would be a sweet spot.........the bigger seller in Japan.

Maybe if gasoline goes to $3.00 a gallon the displacement wars will start to come to an end!

[greg_atlanta]

Maybe if gasoline goes to $3.00 a gallon the displacement wars will start to come to an end!

But then Nissan couldn't use the same engine for every car!! (3.5 V-6)

I'd love to see an M35 or a G25... sure, I love my big engine, but I can't say that I get a chance to use it for everything it's worth every day... or even every month.

Sometimes smaller engines make the car FEEL faster because the engine works harder and makes more noise.

With the Q45 all your hear is a "thhhmmppppttt" and you're going 80 mph!

[BadQ45t]

Interesting thread, I'm curious to see what happens to our poster with the new 2002 Q. Also, my comment on the 100k life expectancy of a Nissan engine, hummmm, I have an 1985 Maxima with 280k on the original engine (transmission rebuild), just oil changes and tuneups with regular timing belt changes. Recently had to replace manifolds (very costly) but engine just goes and goes. My 84' Z car has 159k on it and is as strong today as it was in 1984 when I bought it. Now I'm wondering how long my 92' and 97' Q's will go....

[nisstek]

I would like to no how the Q's life stated. What happened those first 500-1000 miles. I think if we did a survey of people who have oil consumption problems and people without and ask them how they drove their car that critical first 1000 miles, we would see an interesting trend. At work, we are putting a short block in a V-spec for oil consumption Monday. The kid bought the car and took off to Michigan. When he got nearly home on the return trip his oil light came on. No oil. It has used 2 quarts per 3000 miles ever since. The owners manual gives a "break in" procedure. And it surprises me that they (NISSAN) are going to warranty the engine. I have always said, "If you wanna keep a secret, put it in the owner's manual. Nobody will ever find it in there." If scream loud enough and keep the phone lines hot, you'll get what you want. NISSAN really wants your business. Good luck. While I'm on the soap box. Let me say the biult in service life is complete BS. If after 60,000 miles I started haveing failures and my NISSAN turned into a piece of crap why the hell would I buy another one. If ANY engine, even a Yugo, is properly maintained it will last for several 100,000's of miles. Well, maybe not a Yugo but a FORD would.

[vanmeter]

it was a problem on early q's due to rings not seating your car is well beyond seating;i believe there was a tsb about this and if acn get my hands on it i will foward it to this site

[vanmeter]

early new body style q's that is

[autotech43]

Follow up regarding the oil consumption test on an earlier post of mine. We are installing a long block in the vehicle we performed the oil consumption test on. As far as requested info from Vanmeter regarding the TSB on this issue ( the TSB has two areas of concern ). Infiniti changes the dipstick style from the round design to the flat blade, and check the ECM to see if it requires an update.Changing the dipstick ONLY allows an easier reading when checking the engine oil.Updating the ECM to a newer number ONLY helps cut back on a possible slight engine smoke (they claim)when the engine is started from a cold soak condition. Personally the TSB does not have much of anything to do with the oil consumption. Therefore if I owned a new Q with the stated oil consumption, I would be visiting the dealership.Infiniti does have (in certain instances), procedures we technicians have to follow to get approvals when it come to high dollar claims paid as in engines and transmissions.I have been a tech for many years and I will say, I DONT always agree with the manufactures procedures on some items, but that is there rules, definitely not mine!Visit the dealer and go through the motions, if your situation is within there guidelines, they will take care of that concern.