offset and handling changes?

[AnotherOne-via]

just as the title suggests, i was wondering if changing the offset will affect handling/ turn performance to any degree. For example would less offset decrease turn response but increase lateral stabibility or more offset increase turn response but decrease lateral stabibility?

yes i tried searching it but all i got was offset posts retaining to how it will fit in the wheel well (being flush or will it rub on metal) . so unless i missed it its not there. and yes i looked in this forum's stickies i didn't see it there either. all i got was "If the offset of the wheel is not correct for the car, the handling can be adversely affected." from tire rack.

car in question is a s13 coupe if that matters.

hope that was specific enough. thanks in advance.

[McRussellPants]

it will technically make for more peak G at the cost of body roll. (Track width vs. Wheel Rate)

Your steering will be heavier from no powersteering. (Scrub Radius)

Thats really it.

[AnotherOne-via]

would there be much of this change if the offset is changed from +40 to +36 or +20?

and the peak g would increase as offset is increased but also increasing body roll? did i get that right?

and how did power steering get into this? we where talking about wheels aren't we?

sorry if the questions are a bit unclear i stayed out late last night. thanks again.

[McRussellPants]

You got the first part right.

The second part I meant to say "The steering will be heavier but it will only matter if you don't have powersteering"

No sleep owns me.

I doub't you would notice a difference... but some people say they have.

[crzycav86]

lower offset will increase grip because it reduces weight transfer.

It'll increase body roll thanks to the extra grip, but body roll itself doesn't affect handling. It only affects your dynamic suspension settings(alignment), which affects handling.

[crzycav86]

oh yeah, russel:

this is allen, the guy that came and sat in your car at FD qualifier fyi.

[AnotherOne-via]

thanks guys for clarifying that. really helpful info.

[McRussellPants]

oh yeah, russel:

this is allen, the guy that came and sat in your car at FD qualifier fyi.

Lies.

I am an enigma. Seen by no one... A legend if you will.

[nismofly]

just remember other stuff that will have an effect on handling when choosing your offset, its all one system in the end, and has to all function togther, not in bunches of 1 or 2 parts

[chmercer]

also lower offset will make your car track, or tramline worse. none of the negatives really matter as long as you have power steering.

[AnotherOne-via]

just remember other stuff that will have an effect on handling when choosing your offset, its all one system in the end, and has to all function togther, not in bunches of 1 or 2 parts

i know, i'm clarifying this point before i move on to other parts. i figure tires and wheels are the best handling mod possible since its the only contact you have with the road so i start there. and i used the search button to answer my other questions thats why u don't see me posting redundant topics.

thanks for the help again

[Red coupe]

well technically as you stray from the 0 scrub radius point it should lower grip as well, since the tires begin to work against each other some of the grip from each is used to push on the other one.

Id say as long as you are staying with in a sain limit changes should be pretty negligible, especially if your and amateur and this is your street car.

[AnotherOne-via]

i read ur post u put up about the scrub radius to clarify the repies in this post, good info in there. zerothread?id=103200.

so are most factory cars not set up with 0 scrub radius?

what are the other dissadvantages besides clearence to a more positive offset that Exar-Kun hinted at?

what would be insane offsets?

[continental_drift]

you have to take it in context, the closer your offset is to stock,the less work you have to do to bring the footwork into spec.

stock being x6 +40 means that if you're running x6 0 offset, you've pushed the wheel outwards 40mm, this changes thehandling characteristics of your vehicle. with an offset closerto stock it is a smoother transition for the rest of your susp.components.

mercer is completely correct, it does change the way the car will track,but for the most part power steering covers up a lot of other issues.

chet (exar kun) has also made it quite clear that lowering the offseta great deal can put incredible strain on the wheel hubs and the restof your suspension components, which means things wear out quickerand unexpectedly.

if you want to see ridiculous offset, check out a post I created a while agocalled "another irrelevant gratuitously disproportionate fit that you can'thelp but like post". its in this (wheel/tire) forum.
Modified by continental_drift at 12:01 PM 2/27/2006

[Red coupe]

QUOTE=AnotherOne-via]so are most factory cars not set up with 0 scrub radius?[/quote]No, I don't know what the standard is but not 0...the wheels are designed through scrub radius and toe to pull against each other a little bit to pre-load your suspension bushings and proved stability in a tire blowout situation, IIRC miata's have 0 scrub radius, but I don't think Ive hard that about anything other cars......(im no expert just read a few books )

what are the other disadvantages besides Clarence to a more positive offset that Exar-Kun hinted at?

well as continental drift mentioned as the offset become more negative the wheel is sitting farther outboard of the car. the wheel now acts as more of a lever then it used to slightly lowering spring rate, and putting more load on the wheel bearings. More extreme cases would have the tires pushing against each other much harder, which I would imagine would lower grip to some level, as well as cause some extra tire wear.

what would be insane offsets?

you got me there, Like I said I am no expert just read a few books on the subject.People do go 10-15mm lower in offset all the time, and never really seem to notice much. But I personally would imagine that more then an inch (25.4mm)would have to start making SOME difference.I would just do what you want, while keeping in the back of you mind that it would be better to be closer to stock offset then not if you are really worried about it.

[McRussellPants]

1) People say "handling changes" but never clarify. Scrub radius = steering effort and tracking differences Nothing else.

2) Low offset wheels will not kill wheel bearings. shut up. NO. I know more people with 8 +35 or 7.5 +40 with dead bearings that people with 9 +0.

3) There is no downside to a low offset wheel sans tracking problems (which probably has more to do with the alingment you need to run to clear the wheels and not get camber wear) and body roll. the body roll is from being a lever arm on the suspension.

[InsanityInc]

ehh.. the way you're saying some of the body roll stuff is a little odd.

Going to a lower offset will TECHNICALLY improve handling. Going from 35-40mm? I seriously doubt you'll notice a difference. Go from 40-0 and you could probably notice something, but not a while lot.

And going to a lower offset won't increase body roll or weight transfer (body roll IS weight transfer). You'll just get more roll at the edge of your greater handling limit because more force is being applied to your car. It's not really an increase in body roll per-se. You'll have less body roll at any given G figure actually, due to the wider track.

[AnotherOne-via]

once again you people come through with the info. some new points brought up here i didn't see in other offset posts. this was a good read .

I would just do what you want, while keeping in the back of you mind that it would be better to be closer to stock offset then not if you are really worried about it.

i'll stick with that as the bottome line. although i'm more curious than worried by this point. the offsets i plan on getting are under 5mm difference from stock. well within the limits.

Quote, originally posted by AnotherOne-via » what are the other disadvantages besides Clarence to a more positive offset that Exar-Kun hinted at?

who is this Clarence, how did he get in there, and why are you making it seem that i think he is a dissadvantage? i'v never even meet him before.

Modified by AnotherOne-via at 5:08 PM 2/27/2006
Modified by AnotherOne-via at 5:09 PM 2/27/2006

[Red coupe]

who is this Clarence, how did he get in there, and why are you making it seem that i think he is a dissadvantage? i'v never even meet him before.

Yeah I ran a spell check with out paying alot of attention...

[McRussellPants]

ehh.. the way you're saying some of the body roll stuff is a little odd.

Going to a lower offset will TECHNICALLY improve handling. Going from 35-40mm? I seriously doubt you'll notice a difference. Go from 40-0 and you could probably notice something, but not a while lot.

And going to a lower offset won't increase body roll or weight transfer (body roll IS weight transfer). You'll just get more roll at the edge of your greater handling limit because more force is being applied to your car. It's not really an increase in body roll per-se. You'll have less body roll at any given G figure actually, due to the wider track.

It is a dilema. The track increase changes wheel rate for more roll and the wider track will lower weight transfer.

But what I've heard coming from people who added a 20mm and changed nothing else is that roll increases and grip increases.