Over the last few days I have been doing some heavy reading on eprom programming the Nissan 8-bit ECUs. So far I have come to the conclusion that it's really not as hard as it seems. Especially with programs like Live Edit that make all the global adjustments for you when you change the MAF and injector size.

For anyone who has no idea what you need to get started on something like this, here is a list of required and optional items--

28-pin ZIF socket to be soldered in place of your factory EPROM on your ECUSome EPROMS -- 27C256 will be fine to use and are readily availableEPROM Programmer -- You can pick up a simple one off ebay for about $50Editor Program -- You can use Live Edit or Romedit. Both are free and easy to use.OPTIONAL - Rom Emulator ( http://www.xtronics.com). They sell one for $180. This will allow you to make changes on the fly using a program such as Live Edit.

So anyway, on to the discussion. I was looking at a few things and noticed that the some of the ECU's don't have a table for O2 voltage. I assume this is for the non-catalyzer model cars. My question is, is it possible to copy the .BIN file from a non-catalyzer car and use it in a Japanese ecu to eliminate the O2 sensor?

Another question I have... My motorset came with an automatic ECU and harness. Some people have said this is fine and the motor will just not have a rev limiter or speed limiter. My question is, can I use the M/T .bin file on the A/T ECU without issue? If I can't it's no big deal as CA ECU's go for $50 everyday on Ebay. But if I can use it, then cool. I'd like to get into further discussion about what part of the tables to modify when upgrading the turbo, etc... But if anyone can answer my questions so far, that would be great!

Here's my collection of DIY Eprom tuning links:

http://www2.osk.3web.ne.jp/~t1....htmlh ... silent8ob/

Sorta related:http://www.users.bigpond.com/w...s.htm

-m

I'm not baggin on anybody setup, but please take into consideration that an ECU tune has it's limit. If you are looking to do anything more than a larger MAFS, 550cc (or around that) injectors, and a T28, I would consider other options besides an ECU retune. You are still dealing with computer technology that was written and designed almost 20 years ago. Not to mention the fact that an 8bit ECU is pretty slow by todays standards. Don't get me wrong, a tuned ECU is a great alternative if you have the ability to do the tuning yourself (I LOATH the idea of a pre-programmed ECU, as every motor and set up is different).

Just something to keep in mind...

float_6969 wrote:I'm not baggin on anybody setup, but please take into consideration that an ECU tune has it's limit. If you are looking to do anything more than a larger MAFS, 550cc (or around that) injectors, and a T28, I would consider other options besides an ECU retune. You are still dealing with computer technology that was written and designed almost 20 years ago. Not to mention the fact that an 8bit ECU is pretty slow by todays standards. Don't get me wrong, a tuned ECU is a great alternative if you have the ability to do the tuning yourself (I LOATH the idea of a pre-programmed ECU, as every motor and set up is different).

Just something to keep in mind...

Let's also keep in mind that maybe 2% of the people in this forum have the need to go beyond the factory engine management. What exactly are the 'limits' of changing the maps in a factory ECU? The only limit I see is using a MAF system which really isn't a limit unless you are exceeding it's capabilities and in the case of the Z32 MAF, that's closing in on 500hp.

The fact that the CA ECU is a 'simple eprom' design and only 8-bit makes it a lot easier and a LOT more cost effective to work with. And considering the price of a SAFC is $240+ and not nearly as effective as a rom tune, I consider this to be a worthwhile discussion.

good explanation of tuning, for VG but alot of things carry over (now I know what 'void blast off time' is for example: http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/id10.html

ECU tuning forums: http://www.tangentrix.com/forums/

Thanks for posting that EPROM tune forum! Now I have found some light summer reading to keep me entertained!!

Even an 8-bit system has immense processing power in regards to what we need for our engines, more than enough for tuning all of the regions on the fuel and timing maps. It can handle the functions necessary to keep the motor running many times over as it is. There are a number of basemaps you can play with on the Ztune forums, along with a number of helpful members, great site.

Sorry.. where do we find Live Edit?

Search the ztechz forums for the download. There are a bunch of other programs available that can help you as well, just dig around

nocwage wrote:Sorry.. where do we find Live Edit?

I posted it a couple threads below this one yesterday... but here is the direct link anyway... I figured I would host it because the only link I could find was down....

http://www.escic.com/240sx/live-edit.zip

And the Beta5 update... http://www.escic.com/240sx/live-edit-beta5.zip

fanta wrote:Even an 8-bit system has immense processing power in regards to what we need for our engines, more than enough for tuning all of the regions on the fuel and timing maps. It can handle the functions necessary to keep the motor running many times over as it is. There are a number of basemaps you can play with on the Ztune forums, along with a number of helpful members, great site.

Yeah, that's the forum I was on. There are many people who go off an ECU tune alone with plenty of success. You just need to know what you are doing.

float_6969 wrote:I'm not baggin on anybody setup, but please take into consideration that an ECU tune has it's limit.

You are right, but that limit is something that most people on this board will never see.

float_6969 wrote:If you are looking to do anything more than a larger MAFS, 550cc (or around that) injectors, and a T28, I would consider other options besides an ECU retune.

Where did you come up with that? I have used DIY EMS for more power and bigger injectors that you are talking about.

People talk about DIY EMS with a blind taste, then they see what you can do with a low price, and all of a sudden they are believers. Try to keep a open mind to it. The systems are not for everyone, but they are hardly crappy EMS.

c-rad wrote:I was looking at a few things and noticed that the some of the ECU's don't have a table for O2 voltage. I assume this is for the non-catalyzer model cars. My question is, is it possible to copy the .BIN file from a non-catalyzer car and use it in a Japanese ecu to eliminate the O2 sensor?

Another question I have... My motorset came with an automatic ECU and harness. Some people have said this is fine and the motor will just not have a rev limiter or speed limiter. My question is, can I use the M/T .bin file on the A/T ECU without issue? If I can't it's no big deal as CA ECU's go for $50 everyday on Ebay. But if I can use it, then cool. I'd like to get into further discussion about what part of the tables to modify when upgrading the turbo, etc... But if anyone can answer my questions so far, that would be great!

Anyone? Bueller?

where can you get the socket and eproms??

As far as the O2 thing.. I'm not sure what would happen. Flashing a non O2 bin on a O2 model might work ok, I remember it being discussed on SXOC at least, but it may have been unsuccesful.

As for getting parts, you can try places like DigiKey and Jameco, in addition to Rat Shack and Fry's and Altex or other generic places.

Just did a quick search and found the category on Jameco here and DigiKey here.

originalsin wrote:where can you get the socket and eproms??

You can do it Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-bay!

Well, you kids convinced me. Ya'll better be ready to deal with my stupid questions, because this Friday (Payday) I hope to finally buy my EPROM setup.

Turbogixxer wrote:
You are right, but that limit is something that most people on this board will never see.

Where did you come up with that? I have used DIY EMS for more power and bigger injectors that you are talking about.

People talk about DIY EMS with a blind taste, then they see what you can do with a low price, and all of a sudden they are believers. Try to keep a open mind to it. The systems are not for everyone, but they are hardly crappy EMS.

I thought that I made it VERY clear that I wasn't looking down on anybodys setup or tuning an ECU. And in actually, it's really not so much the ECU that I am lacking faith in, but in Nissans superflous solenoids and valves. I have been personally fighting with them for years now and I finally gave up on them. I also reached a point in my building that wouldn't cover the capabilites of what the ECU could do. I also greatly wish to simplifiy things too. I am sure that you could tune a stock Nissan 8-bit ECU to run a Q45 MAFS, AND 880cc injectors, but do you really think that is the best way to go about it? I have also seen the maps in the stock ecu (as I've contemplated ECU tuning before) and they have limits that, to my knowledge, can't be exceeded. EX: tuning the motor accuratly past 6800rpm. Unless you have a different software than what I have, you can't really do it. Just about any decent upgrade in cams will render the capabilites of the stock ecu lacking. I'm not saying it can't do it, but I don't think it can do it well.

I also want to re-iderate; I'M NOT BAGGIN ON ECU TUNING!!! I just want people to recognize that it's not the end-all, and that it does have it's limits. Granted they are somewhat high (in regards to the ECU anyway), but they are limited nonetheless. Something else to remember is that, (and I know that YOU would agree with me on this, as you've made this same statement yourself) the best way to tune an ECU is to take it to the dyno and tune it just like you would a standalone. I know with the use of live-edit, this become much more simple, but if you really want to do it right, you need to get the car to the dyno. This can be a little harder to do when burning roms.

you can adjust the centerpoints of each RPM 'row' in the ecu, but you are still limited to 16 RPM bands; you can tune it properly above 6800 but not without sacrificing tuning someplace else.

The maps can be expanded, and given proper inputs it'll run fine. Dyno time is invaluble.

Does anyone know if Live Edit has a real-time map trace feature?

I read about map expansion on the VG tuning site and wondered if it was possible to do on the CA. I haven't really looked at the 'space' around the existing maps to see what room there is for it myself, yet..

I was wondering where you tell it how many rows there are to use, however.

so i would want thishttp://www.jameco.com/webapp/w...02744

i just bought a 28pin one from radioshack for 99cents, not a fancy ZIF just a plain old socket, also for chips check out Moates.net i think he has the chips we can use.

float_6969 wrote: You are still dealing with computer technology that was written and designed almost 20 years ago. Not to mention the fact that an 8bit ECU is pretty slow by todays standards.

I would say that CA18DET motor also was designed almost 20 years ago... And since our motors still run those 7000rpm (+/- 500), and not 15000, it's processing power is absolutely sufficient

Guys someone please enlighten me...In badbiki's (I think) famous ECU tuning instructions it is said that:we take voltage of MAF, take appropriate value in VQ map, then divide it by 65536, multiple it by 16 and so we get column where to look for correction values.BUT.When my MAF reads let's say 4.3V, I calculate that ECU should read column 38687/65536*16 = 10th.In reality I'm sure it reads 14-15th column (cause when I change AFR there, I can see the difference).So obviously calculations are wrong...Does anybody know where is the problem?

this might help you out.

http://www.boostcruising.com/silvia/eprom.asp

originalsin wrote:so i would want thishttp://www.jameco.com/webapp/w...02744

Thats actually what I'm going to order properly, not sure if it'll really fit in there (the specs say its x height but it doesn't look it, and that # is a bit big..)

You can use one of these too....

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/w...40301

Pumaking wrote:this might help you out.

http://www.boostcruising.com/silvia/eprom.asp

I can't see anything regarding my question in there

anyone?