Yeah, but how do you know which pin is what number?

Do you count them down the side vertically or horizontally and cross over from side to side?

if you have the chip vertically, with the notch at the top.pin 1 is the top left corner.....numbering DOWN the LEFT hand side to the bottom right is pin 14.then top right is pin 28......bottom right is pin 15.

ie:1 282 273 26------13 1614 15e.t.c.This is exactly what I'm going to do to my ECU.....all I needed to know was which combination of pin A14 and A15 would give which map.so cheers "biosehnsucht"!!!

I'm not going to bend any pis tho, as I will be making up a small daughter board for a much more tidy way.

If you are thinking of doing this......keep in mind that pin 27 ( A14 ) is connected to the Vcc ( 5v pin 28 ) on the PCB of the ECU.and if you go to the 512kb chip, the pin 1 ( which is Vpp on the 256, is actually the A15 on the 512 ) is also connected on the PCB directly to pins 27 and 28.

so from stock, with a 256kb chip, the ECU would hold the A14 address to 5v ( bank 1 ).So if you used a 256kb chip and did not write anything in the top half of the chip, then this would be why your engine isn't going!!!And If you used a 512kb chip in a CA ECU without bending any pins....it would hold both A14 and A15 to 5v, so you would be running the setup in bank 3.

This is why it is important to completely fill the chip.

When I make my daughter board, I will use the pull-up resistor method that biosehnsucht mentioned, just to be safe.

oh yeah, and if you want to get your power and gnd from the ECU.....pin 28 on all the 128, 256, and 512 chips will give you the 5v souce ( Vcc ), and for gnd, use pin 14 on all the above chips.

Ok, well i only burned the image on there once. I pulled the chip and reset it yesterday and checked the ecu wires. Its still not firing but my spark plugs are fowled so i need some new ones. The fuel pump still doesnt stop priming though. When i turn it on, it just keeps going and going and going. Before this whole deal it would cut off after about 3 seconds... could the chip only having one map cause this at all?

ah good info, I've wondered but havne't had time to play with the multimeter on an ecu to check for those pins if they're held to anything.

any idea if pin 1 is connected to anything also?

yes, it would cause that, because as the ECU sees it at the moment.....the chip is BLANK.you could fix this by either re-writing the chip with 2 copies of the bin file on it......or simply bending up pin 27, and joining it to an earth. ( it would then look at bank 0, which is where you wrote your bin to ), so it would then work as normal.

yes....pin 1, 27, and 28 are all joined directly to each other on the PCB.which is fine for the 128, as pin 1 is a Vpp and pins 27 and 28 are both Vcc on the 128.

128:pin 1 = Vpppin 14 = Gnd ( Vss )pin 27 = Vccpin 28 = Vcc

256:pin 1 = Vpppin 14 = Gnd ( Vss )pin 27 = A14pin 28 = Vcc

512:pin 1 = A15pin 14 = Gnd ( Vss )pin 27 = A14pin 28 = Vcc

Vcc = 5v main power to EPROMVpp = 5v programming power to EPROMVss = gnd

so as you can see, without bending pins, a 256 chip would be seeing bank 1, and a 512 chip would be seeing bank 3 ( as both address pins are being held high )

perfect then I can be lazy for now and use this 512 chip that came w/ my burner w/o doing anything fancy beyond some copy /b action

btw Vpp is normally on such old chips 12.5V or more sometimes as high as 21V, to actually program. so 5V direct wouldn't do anything in particular normally, hence why they probably connected it to 5V so it would be logic high but not set to write, rather than grounding it (don't see why it would have mattered) or leaving it floating (floating = not connected to anything, floating pins consume tons of power, for whatever odd reason, some chips have internal pullups to stop this).

I'm glad my question solved someone elses problem in a roundabout way.

Thanks for the technical stuff, man. I hope thats all we need to actually apply this to the chip and PCB itsself.

Which pin would be 27? Draw up a little picture in paint if you dont mind.

google image search for teh win!

heres a page of most common ones.....make sure you look at the right chip when you read off the pin numbers!( the 28 pin chip is the one in the middle )

Well it would be impossible to **** it up. They HAVE to be 28 pin chips, and you just count down the left side and back up the right.

Thanks for the pinout diagram!

Guys are there cheaper than $180 emulators out there?

Vetal wrote:Guys are there cheaper than $180 emulators out there?

According to the guy who wrote Live Edit, the pocket romulator is the only one that works right.

Not necessary must it work with LiveEdit...

the romulator is the only one that will work with "real-time" tuning using the live edit software.

But any emulator that can emulate the 27c128 chip will work......just not in real time with live edit.

You can find DIY emulators on the internet for free.....all you gotta buy is the parts.....and get someone to make a PCB for you.then build it up yourself

i just finished getting my car running chipped w/ some DSM injectors. have a RB20 MAF to install also but since i'm still stock turbo and boost no need yet, and I've near-broken it once already so enough for now

I ran into some problems because of the vagueness of many of the sites on the adjustments necessary.. I hadn't adjuted the 'boost' tables so it would start and then die after a second of running fine (probably as soon as it switched from dumb-fire starting mode to running from the MAF input)

here's what I did just to go from 370 to 450 cc injectors

using rom editor:- figure out the old/new ratio, i.e. 370/450 = 0.822(... )- take the K value (stock was 00b7 hex, or 183 decimal) and multiply it by the ratio (183 * 0.8222.. = 150.466(...), or 0096 hex (rounding down) or 0097 hex (rounding up), I used 0096 btw)- set the K value to the new one determined above (i.e. 0096)- now you need to correct the 'Boost' field under the hi octane fuel and ignition maps, again take each value and multiply by the old/new ratio (I ended up with 6, 8, 13, 17, 21, 25, 30, 35, 39, 43, 47, 49, 52, 56, 60, 68 for fuel, and 8, 13, 17, 19, 21, 24, 25, 30, 35, 39, 43, 47, 52, 56, 60, 68 for the ignition map); keep in mind these values are listed by rom editor as decimal not hex- you amy notice that the #'s listed above those that you changed (i.e. -0.xx) have changed as you edited those values, if you go to setup > engine specification setup menu and change the cc from 370 to 450 you'll see the #'s go back to being the same as before (the #'s on the columns at the top, not the #s you changed)- you may want to adjust the void blast off time, which is the open delay on the injectors from when they turn on to when they start spraying, stock was 37 (hex), I changed it to 3c (hex) after some searching around.. might play with it more at a later date, mostly this is important for idle smoothness as it helps the ECU make sure it holds hte injectors open long enough to spray the intended amount of fuel. I actually couldn't find a value listed anywhere for DSM 450s so I tried a wacky formula from the VG tuning site earlier in this thread

now you've done all you need to do just for the injectors

- you might also want to raise the speed limiter (I've set mine to 240kph as thats more than I'll ever need, and where my speedo would peg out; you could set it as high as 510 IIRC to 'remove' it but whats the point) and play with the rev limiters, I believe on the rev limiters you'll need to set 1=3 and 2=4 whenever you change them (as they are stock 7700 and 7400 for 1/3 and 2/4)

The K value, void blast-off time (inj open time), rev and speed limits are all located in the 'General' tab.

I only adjusted the K value, void blast-off, speed limit, and 'Boost' ign/fuel tables, and nothing else so far, and it runs fine, if a bit rich (I do have the FPR set to ~1.5 psi too high ATM assuming the gauge reads right, since it has markings only every 2 psi), but its not really any richer than it was before at the same FPR setting; so it's really down to tuning it at this point.

there's mroe involved if you change the MAF (another K value recalculation, to be done before the old/new inj ratio calc is applied to it, the various sites do explain this part well enough)

rememberif using a bigger than 128kbit chip, to 'copy /b romfile+romfile.. newfile' so that it fills the whole chip, I forgot that at one point and sent the ecu into endless reboot (at first I'd feared I'd put in the rom backwards since the fuel pump wouldn't shut off but I looked at the red/green lights and they were flickering on and off so I realized it was just rebooting because there was no valid code to execute where it was reading from)

Guys, what value do you have at the last column of VQ map for CA18DET AFM? In maps I have it is ~59000 and thus ECU would never read last column of fuel/ignition maps... Do you have the same?

I have been trying to burn a ROM for my car to no success. The bin files I have are 16KB and I would think they should be 128KB. I have a 256KB chip and I tried to write the data to the lower bank and then I wrote the file to the ROM again but to the second bank. (i wrote it to the address location of the first 128KB and the the second 128KB bank).

My question is, are the bin files supposed to be 16KB or 128KB.

Thank you

ohhhh, i see they are 256Kb

Ok, that makes sense now.

I used the copy /b file.bin + file.bin newbin.bin method and it worked out great.

Thi slink provided me with a dowload and all that but when i try to change AFM to Z32 it says runtime error 11 and closes down the program....whats this all about...also I downlaoded rom editor and and when trying to load a bin file it says something about being crowded..:S I'm a total newb when it comes to this so can someone dummy it down for me...the info on that boostcruising link seemed real good for calculating values for bigger injectors and afm as well but I'm kinda cofused about it all.

Also what are your guys takes on Willem EPROM Programmers??
Modified by craz4240 at 12:33 PM 9/8/2007

Hello I know this is an old post but did anything come of the ecu EPROM download with the adaptor?

In the last 15 years, EPROM programming as pretty much gone by the wayside. It's so cheap and easy to put a standalone in now. Plus all the stock wiring is so old that unless you're installing a new harness and all new sensors, the car is going to have issues all the time.