Octane rating of alky

[keepingthe240]

What is the formula code for alky? ch4, <-cng or lng orc2h50h I listed in this forum due to you guys knowing more then general chat section.

[keepingthe240]

While i have this thread... A coworker of mine has a '85 buick regal t-type with a t3. Bone stock it runs @ 15psi and can be pushed to 17-19psi. The '89 trans am runs @19.5 psi (ceramic wheel) bone stock. What gives?? I never knew a t3 on a 231ci can run that much boost!! Also, My '71 nova was rated at 180hp with a 250ci, 235hp with a 307ci, and 285hp with a 350ci. I'm looking for the conversion rate for after '72. I throw out my chiltons book a few years ago and can only remember the 250ci rating!

[NateDogg]

Methanol has an octane rating of 105-115 according to a book I have here. An engine burning straight alky will burn more than twice as much fuel due to the lower BTU rating than gasoline.

[keepingthe240]

Is methanal (c30h) and alky the same thing?? I was thinking alky and ch4 was the same. Meth has an a/f ratio of 6.5 and research octane# of 112 with a motor octane# of 91

[DRIFTEADOR]

this may not deserve its own thread so i'll post it here. Do any of you guys use "rocket fuel"? xylene and toluene have high octane ratings (114/118 respectively) so a fill up of lets say 96 octane fuel wouldn't cost an arm/leg. and another ?, does anyone run different maps, for example a pump gas/low boost, and a high octane/high boost on the same fuel system? i know this wouldn't work if you want to switch on the fly but what about running on either map for an event?
Modified by wtb240 at 8:22 AM 12/23/2004

[WDRacing]

Just a little info I keep around...

http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html

Formula #1 - Toluene R+M/2.........114Cost...........$2.50/gal Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium10%...........94.2 Octane20%...........96.4 Octane30%...........98.6 Octane Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, i.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.

Formula #2 - XyleneR+M/2.........117Cost...........$2.75/gal Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium10%...........94.5 Octane20%...........97.0 Octane30%...........99.5 Octane Notes: Similar to Toluene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, i.e. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toluene and advertised as *race formula*.

Formula #3 - Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE)R+M/2.........118Cost...........$3.50/gal Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium10%...........94.6 Octane20%...........97.2 Octane30%...........99.8 Octane Notes: Oxygenate. Very common in octane booster products. Has lower BTU content than toluene or xylene, but oxygenate effect makes the gasoline burn better and produce more energy.

Formula #4 - Methanol or EthanolR+M/2.........101Cost...........$0.60 - $1.75/gal Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium10%...........94.3 Octane (Methanol)10%...........94.7 Octane (Ethanol)20%...........Not Recommended Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combine with water.

Formula #5 - Isopropyl Alcohol and Tertiary Butyl AlcoholR+M/2.........101Cost...........$0.60-$1.50/gal Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium10%...........94.5 Octane20%...........Not Recommended30%...........Not Recommended

Notes: Similar to Methanol/Ethanol. Isopropyl Alcohol is simply rubbing alcohol.

Sample Mixture To make your own octane booster, it is easiest to make up a large batch, and then bottle it up in "dosage-size" uses. Below is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products. To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):

100 oz of toluene for octane boost 25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent) 3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent) This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid. Color can be added with petroleum dyes.

[DRIFTEADOR]

^ good stuff. prices may be a little outdated though. last time i was at sherwin williams prices were more like $10/gal and the price didnt drop until a 55gal drum

[WDRacing]

Thats true, I was buying Toluene from ACE and it was 10 bucks a gallon. Which makes it fairly pricey. Thats why Methonal is the best bang for the buck nowadays. Straight methonal injection works wonders and is cheaper then pretty much every other source of knock reduction aside from water that I know of.

WD

[WDRacing]

On a side note, there is always propane injection as well. 110 to 115 octane and usually lasts about 2.5 months depending. So about 3 bucks a month is the average cost.

[keepingthe240]

As far as propane injection. Are you talking about c3h8( pure propane)? Or the hd5 (90% propane-10% what not)? I read that you could build a convertion kit to run propane full time for under $200. What about the computer sending out codes?? I emailed the only guy i know of thats running "pure propane" and he's running a '68 chevy, which was useless for us.

[WDRacing]

I'm talking about good old stop by Walmart and buy a tank of propane that you'd hook up to your grill. Turn it on by a hobbs switch and use a cold start injector from a Saab as the on/off valve. Or buy a kit from IPO.

[hannibal]

The list WD posted is about mixing the 'octane booster' in with your fuel. Do they work the same way when injected (like alcohol, water, etc)?

I assume all these can either be injected or mixed with gasoline.

[keepingthe240]

Turn it on by a hobbs switch and use a cold start injector from a Saab as the on/off valve.

Is that your injection kit or your convertion kit? The walmart is c3h8. hd5 is whats used mostly as a full time fuel in cars

[hannibal]

Ethanol is C2H5OHMethanol is CH3OHPropane is C3H8...

That's an injection kit. A Hobbs switch is activate by pressure, so the propane injection starts at a certain boost level.

[WDRacing]

That is correct, I don't ever plan on a full conversion. But I'll be running a two stage propane setup. All made by yourstruly. If it works I'll be selling them.

[DRIFTEADOR]

^i'd definitely be interested. if the hobbs is only an off/on switch, what regulates the propane injection? does it just flow the max flow of the driver/injector? and with that in mind how do you figure how much propane to inject?

[WDRacing]

Propane is different then gas, it doesn't bog down the motor until your running really rich. And you don't get any color in the exhaust. SO basically you adjust the tank output pressure, Set the psi you want the propane to come on at, lets say 5 psi, then turn up the volume till the motor bogs or begins to hesitate. Slightly reduce pressure and go to the second injector. Say 10 psi turn on. Repeat procedure...

I have a MSD Knock meter, so I use it along with a wide band to regulate how much boost I can run. I simply add propane or alky until knock goes away. Within reason of course. I don't know of any progressive propane kits on the market right now. They are all just on/off.

The only real reason I'm using alky or propane is to run max timing with the same amount of boost. I don't want to retard the NA timing map at all. That way I'll be able to make a decent amount of power without going for a standalone.

You can also use Propane with N2O. Rather then using a fuel line, you use a line to your propane tank. Same principle accept your injecting 110 octane and don't need to retard timing.

WD

[DRIFTEADOR]

ah ok. so where is the propane injected? would i need to tap the manifold or can it be injected before the tb?when you say, "set the psi you want the propane to come on...5psi...", youre talking about the boost level right? and then turn up the propane regulator until the motor starts bogging. so 10psi propane pressure is a good starting point? and also how many injectors are used? a pic says a thousand words do you have any?

[WDRacing]

The propane pressure will be more like 100psi, the first injector is set to come on at 5 psi boost pressure, the seconf one will come on at 10 psi boost pressure. The injectors are almost always prior to the throttle body.

[DRIFTEADOR]

well let me know if you decide to make some. an estimated price would be nice too