Hi folk, Just wondering if anyone has the OBX crank pulley... are inferior in any way to the UR or greddy brands?(in terms of quality, weight, etc). They are on ebay for $70...it boasts 6061 T06 billet alum. material, but doesn't mention weight.
Thanks!
OBX crank pulley
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FSUDrifter
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Re: OBX crank pulley (slipnfall)
yeah i was wondering the same thing about the ebay crank pulleys for my sohc. I've been reading around on the board and it kind of looks like a cheap crank pulley might be a bad idea because it can cause possible problems with bearings and/or accessories. I'm definitely no expert so correct me if I'm wrong. I've just been reading around a bit.
Here are a couple links on ebay if anyone knows anything about these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem
One says it is made by "ESR Racing"... Anyone ever heard of them?
Here are a couple links on ebay if anyone knows anything about these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem
One says it is made by "ESR Racing"... Anyone ever heard of them?
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FSUDrifter
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Re: OBX crank pulley (FSUDrifter)
Does anyone know anything about this?
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Ni2s4s0aSnX
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Re: OBX crank pulley (slipnfall)
I thought that they had discontinued it.
Re: (sidewards)
Ok, so whats the main difference between the $199 Unorthodox pulley and the $119 ASP pulley? Is the Unorthodox pulley that much better? Im considering a pulley, now that i have the Fidanza flywheel, but would really like to hear some differences between pulleys.
Re: (JNM240)
the weights were posted on here awhile back, just a couple of oz. Slight weight and looks are about the biggest difference. I bought the ASP, I have yet to install it yet because the engine is sitting on the engine stand. But $80 difference for a few ounces, well thats your call.JNM240 wrote:Ok, so whats the main difference between the $199 Unorthodox pulley and the $119 ASP pulley? Is the Unorthodox pulley that much better? Im considering a pulley, now that i have the Fidanza flywheel, but would really like to hear some differences between pulleys.
My friend had an Ebay lightweight pulley on his turbo gsr hatch. He punched it one day and *BOOM* blew up the oil pump. Puts another pump in and 2 weeks later I stopped by his house. Took my for a ride and as soon as he gets on it in 2nd gear going into the merge ramp *BOOM* again, oil pressure drops...tugged her home. LOL
Re: (hnugen)
Ok, but the KA oil pump doesnt run off the crank pulley, rather an internal worm gear from the crank, which wont be replaced in the swap. My question is, did he see a difference between the stock pulley and the lightweight pulley? Is it even worth doing performance wise? Ill live with any risk factors involved, i just want to know if they actually do anything worthwile.
Re: OBX crank pulley (slipnfall)
i thought a lighter pulley was suppose to give you better throttle response... and the reduction in weight puts a little more power to you wheels that was loss before trying to turn the heavier pulleys...but i could be wrong. i aint no mech so correct me if im wrong.
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daconkiftador
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mmm240
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Re: (sidewards)
3 hp for a hundred bucks really doesn't sound bad, better revs too.sidewards wrote:Get an ASP, they're only a little bit more. really for the money a crank pulley isn't worth it. I have a UR and it revs a little faster, but there is only like a 3hp difference. import tuner dyno'd a s14 before and after a UR install, 3hp max.
i just spent 600 on a header and catback and will probably be lucky to get 10whp
i am now thinking about a crank pulley
Re: (sunnys14)
Ok, how did it mess with your power steering at all? Im under the impression that, since it is an underdrive pulley, underdriving the power steering pump will make the power steering a little harder. Same with the alternator (less amperage output due to underdrive). Any difference??
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MikeMurphy
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Re: (JNM240)
For me, it had no negative effects on anything. The ONLY side effect that I can even think of is that the engine has to rev IF I am sitting still and turning my (wide) front tires. Keep in mind though that my idle sits between 500 and 600rpm and turning your wheels when stationary is just dumb.JNM240 wrote:Ok, how did it mess with your power steering at all? Im under the impression that, since it is an underdrive pulley, underdriving the power steering pump will make the power steering a little harder. Same with the alternator (less amperage output due to underdrive). Any difference??
I noticed some small gains on the butt dyno and the engine feels like it revs a bit faster.
When you pull off the stock pulley, and compare the two, you will not be unhappy that you bought an aftermarket pulley!! I myself was shocked.
Re: (MikeMurphy)
Awesome! I think, then, a lightweight underdrive pulley will be my next upgrade. I tell you, after putting the Fidanza flywheel on last week my car feels like a whole different beast, reving a LOT faster, just pulls harder. So im sure a crank pulley would only enhance this more. I was kinda worried about the side effects, but there dont seem to be any of any significance. Thanks for the info!!
Re: OBX crank pulley (FSUDrifter)
Here is what Unorthodox Racing says about the issue:
"Is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?"
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term that is used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications that we offer utilize a counterweight as part of the pulley as these engines are internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note that in these applications, this elastomer is somewhat inadequate in size, as well as life span, to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say that with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most who have installed and driven a vehicle with our pulleys will notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is a natural result of replacing the heavy steel crank pulley with a CNC-machined aluminum pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke, displacement, inline, V configurations, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.
"Will Unorthodox Racing lightened pulleys cause an oil pump failure?"
Urban myths have been floating around about Honda oil pumps failing by using an Unorthodox Racing crank pulley/s. The real fact is that these OEM pumps have been failing with AND WITHOUT the use of our pulleys and before our crank pulley/s were available on the market. Also note that these failures are few and far in between.
The Acura/Honda oil pumps are excellent units, but there are a number of reasons for the failures that do occur.
Most of the oil pump failures have been in Acura/Honda B series 1.6/1.8L applications. The Mazda 1.6/1.8L applications have seen a few failures, as well as the new Ford Focus ZETEC in race vehicles. Again, note that on all these applications the oil pump failures have occurred on engines not using our pulley, using the stock crank pulley.
These pump failures can be linked to the following causes. These causes may act individually or in combination to cause the actual failures:
* The gears used in many pumps including those in the Honda B series engines and Mazda Miata engines are of a low-cost powdered metal composition. The factory uses this metal because of its acceptable cost-to-strength ratio. The problem is, these parts are not always deburred properly from the factory and when pushed to their limits can and do fail. * Many times additional stress is added to the oil pump by using oil thicker than what is specified by the manufacturer. The oil pump and bearing clearances were not designed from the factory to push oil of higher viscosities. This extra stress on the gears, combined with the above mentioned poor deburring process, can attribute to oil pump failure or engine failure. * Another contributing factor to oil pump failures is the weak cast backing plate of the B16/B18 oil pumps. Simple inspection shows that when compared to an H22 oil pump, a screw is not present in a critical location of the plate in the B series pumps. Compound this with the use of a higher viscosity motor oil and poorly deburred pump components and you have the ingredients for an oil pump failure. * This issue, specific to the Mazda 1.6/1.8L engines, involves the flex of the crankshaft and the lower half of the engine due to the additional stress of a forced induction system (such as a turbo or supercharger). The additional stress produced by forced induction causes flexing of both the block and the crankshaft between the front main bearing and the oil pump. This can also contribute to oil pump failure. Early Miatas were notorious for having crankshaft problems and later models suffered from problems as power is increased significantly. * Lastly, any failure inside a motor, related to aging components or a poor engine rebuild, can cause the oil pump to fail. ANY particles passing through an oil pump design such as that used in the Honda B series engines will cause damage or failure.
Remember that oil pump failures happen regularly on engines using a factory crank pulley. To help combat these failures, a few steps should be taken to help prolong the life of your oil pump and engine:
* Unless building a race motor with race clearances in mind, you should always use an oil viscosity matching, or as close to the factory recommendations as possible. * If using a factory oil pump, always have your oil pump components deburred properly. It is recommended you have a competent engine rebuilder handle this. * For those who run dedicated / extreme race vehicles we recommend using an external wet or dry sump oiling system. These systems are designed for the heavy abuse a race engine receives on the track. Remember, the stock oiling systems were designed for factory horsepower levels and can only handle a certain amount of power increase over that level. * Lastly and most obvious, have a competent, trusted machine or performance shop rebuild your precious motor. It only takes one simple mistake to turn a costly engine rebuild into a doorstop.
"Will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?"
This is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is that our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the total service life you can expect from your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
"Is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?"
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term that is used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications that we offer utilize a counterweight as part of the pulley as these engines are internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note that in these applications, this elastomer is somewhat inadequate in size, as well as life span, to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say that with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most who have installed and driven a vehicle with our pulleys will notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is a natural result of replacing the heavy steel crank pulley with a CNC-machined aluminum pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke, displacement, inline, V configurations, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.
"Will Unorthodox Racing lightened pulleys cause an oil pump failure?"
Urban myths have been floating around about Honda oil pumps failing by using an Unorthodox Racing crank pulley/s. The real fact is that these OEM pumps have been failing with AND WITHOUT the use of our pulleys and before our crank pulley/s were available on the market. Also note that these failures are few and far in between.
The Acura/Honda oil pumps are excellent units, but there are a number of reasons for the failures that do occur.
Most of the oil pump failures have been in Acura/Honda B series 1.6/1.8L applications. The Mazda 1.6/1.8L applications have seen a few failures, as well as the new Ford Focus ZETEC in race vehicles. Again, note that on all these applications the oil pump failures have occurred on engines not using our pulley, using the stock crank pulley.
These pump failures can be linked to the following causes. These causes may act individually or in combination to cause the actual failures:
* The gears used in many pumps including those in the Honda B series engines and Mazda Miata engines are of a low-cost powdered metal composition. The factory uses this metal because of its acceptable cost-to-strength ratio. The problem is, these parts are not always deburred properly from the factory and when pushed to their limits can and do fail. * Many times additional stress is added to the oil pump by using oil thicker than what is specified by the manufacturer. The oil pump and bearing clearances were not designed from the factory to push oil of higher viscosities. This extra stress on the gears, combined with the above mentioned poor deburring process, can attribute to oil pump failure or engine failure. * Another contributing factor to oil pump failures is the weak cast backing plate of the B16/B18 oil pumps. Simple inspection shows that when compared to an H22 oil pump, a screw is not present in a critical location of the plate in the B series pumps. Compound this with the use of a higher viscosity motor oil and poorly deburred pump components and you have the ingredients for an oil pump failure. * This issue, specific to the Mazda 1.6/1.8L engines, involves the flex of the crankshaft and the lower half of the engine due to the additional stress of a forced induction system (such as a turbo or supercharger). The additional stress produced by forced induction causes flexing of both the block and the crankshaft between the front main bearing and the oil pump. This can also contribute to oil pump failure. Early Miatas were notorious for having crankshaft problems and later models suffered from problems as power is increased significantly. * Lastly, any failure inside a motor, related to aging components or a poor engine rebuild, can cause the oil pump to fail. ANY particles passing through an oil pump design such as that used in the Honda B series engines will cause damage or failure.
Remember that oil pump failures happen regularly on engines using a factory crank pulley. To help combat these failures, a few steps should be taken to help prolong the life of your oil pump and engine:
* Unless building a race motor with race clearances in mind, you should always use an oil viscosity matching, or as close to the factory recommendations as possible. * If using a factory oil pump, always have your oil pump components deburred properly. It is recommended you have a competent engine rebuilder handle this. * For those who run dedicated / extreme race vehicles we recommend using an external wet or dry sump oiling system. These systems are designed for the heavy abuse a race engine receives on the track. Remember, the stock oiling systems were designed for factory horsepower levels and can only handle a certain amount of power increase over that level. * Lastly and most obvious, have a competent, trusted machine or performance shop rebuild your precious motor. It only takes one simple mistake to turn a costly engine rebuild into a doorstop.
"Will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?"
This is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is that our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the total service life you can expect from your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.