Obama supporters: Help me understand

[audtatious]

So, I have stated that I don't understand Obama. Help me understand by answering these please. No, I won't go into his childhood and ask about his religious beliefs nor about the socialist mentor he had back then.

1. In 1981, Obama was at Occidental and was transferring to Columbia. In between the two he went on a 3-week trip to Pakistan with Hasan Chandoo and Wahid Hamid, two wealthy Pakistanis he met in school. He has never written about this trip in his books and the only mention of it was during a private San Fran fundraiser in which he stated it "enhanced his foreign policy qualifications". What did he do while there and how did it enhance his foreign policy qualifications? I've visited other countries on vacation and I sure don't feel that I'm more qualified for doing so. What went on?

2. After graduating from Columbia, Obama joined ACORN in order to work with poverty-stricken areas of Chicago as a Community Organizer. Per Obama himself, his role was to go into the areas and stir up the residents concerning a particular issue in order to get them to vote a certain way or to support a select issue. Did he actually do anything else other than try to influence people to support ACORNs select issues?

3. Obama entered Harvard in 1988. He was able to get into the school via the help of Dr. Khalid al-Mansour (AKA: Don Warden) who made some calls and pulled some strings and he helped pay for his Harvard education as well. Regardless, how did Obama get associated with this guy to the point that he received favors from him? FWIW, al-Mansour himself is a lawyer, an orthodox Muslim, a black nationalist, an educator, an outspoken enemy of Israel, alleged that the United States was plotting genocide against black Americans in his book “The Lost Books of Africa Rediscovered”, is a mentor to Black Panther Party founder Huey Newton and also Bobby Seale, used his influence in representing the Royal Saudi family, etc.etc.etc... Where did he meet this guy and why has this person gone so far out of his way to ensure that Obama went through Harvard? al-Mansour has also given over $100k to the Obama campaign. What's the story?

4. What is the real connection between Obama and Bill Ayers? For those who don't know who Ayers is, Bill co-founded the militant organization "Weatherman" in 1969. He was responsible for blowing up statues, planting numerous bombs including a Pentagon explosion that impacted missions in Vietnam, bombing of the NY police department and the capitol building, among others. Their motto was "Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, Kill your parents." For some reason, Bill was never convicted of his involvement with the crimes even though he was a fugitive for 10 years with his wife, he told the New York Times in September 2001, "I don't regret setting bombs...I feel we didn't do enough."

The earliest contact I can find between Obama and Ayers was that they were on the board of the Woods Fund together from 1999-2002 (8-person board) although I do see than Ayers hosted a "meet and greet" for Obama at his house in the mid-90's. Obama announced his bid for Senator while at Ayers home as well. They are neighbors and both serve on their community board together.

So, what is the real connection? Initially Obamas campaign claimed they barely knew each other but Ayres seemed to know Obama before they were both on the Woods Fund board as he had hosted a party for Obama prior to that time. What is the truth and why is Obama associating himself with another militant?

5. The Rev Wright issue. Why did Obama feel it necessary to initially lie about hearing Rev Wright, who he had on numerous occasions stated him as his mentor? He was 20 years in that church and was fine proclaiming his closeness to Wright until the news media actually brought it to light, at which time all mention of his association was initially removed off the official Obama website (and at which time the link to the Black Panthers was removed).

6. What was the real point of pretty much calling his grandmother a racist and why did he continually state that he was brought up in a poor household? Street cred for his Senate bid? If that's the case, who else is he willing to sacrifice or should I consider that a 1-time deal?

7. Where are the details of his recent trip to the middle east? It seems he had a conversation with the Iraq Gov head in order to get them to stall a troop negotiation with the current US Administration, which is against the law, but what other promises and discussions did he have with leaders there?

8. Being the candidate of CHANGE, why are all of his financial advisers from failed companies that pressed forth sub-prime loans? Seems to be more to it than simply trying to get people with knowledge into his side of the ropes while blaming the Bush Admin for the whole mess. Seems he would have new people in his corner in order to actually inject change instead of the "same ole people" who have gotten us where we are today. Is there something I am missing here and can you explain it to me?

9. Why did he vote "present" over 100 times while in the Illinois State Senate? Did he not understand that "yes or no" were selections?

10. Why won't he admit that the McCain suggested "surge" in Iraq has worked? Why has he changed his stance on immediately pulling out all troops, thus ignoring the generals on the ground, to saying he would not necessarily pull the troops out initially (see question 7 as well in which he tried to stop troop movement negotiations)? He slams McCain for "100 years" remark yet his current plan is to keep troops over there on a US base which is the same thing McCain has been saying all along, what is the point of this?

11. What is his real stance on oil? He has stated that he is not necessarily interested in lowering the cost of gas as it stops people from driving and was totally against drilling. He has since changed his stance of the subject and is for drilling as long as it is 50+ miles outside US which is not where there is any oil, so where does he really stand on the issue? He also proposes windfall taxes on oil companies, won't that further punish US citizens who are already in a money crunch due to gas prices? What is the real point of his multiple stances?

12. How much does he really plan on increasing capital gains taxes and the like? He wants to take away the Bush tax cuts but then makes statements that he would not do so initially upon being President because it would hurt the fragile economy. If that is the case, won't it hurt the economy regardless or is this simply a "tax the rich" initiative because the "rich" deserve to be punished? Explain his real thoughts on this because he seems all over the board.

13. Where is he going to get the money to support the rest of his healthcare and welfare initiatives? Explain how much I will be liable for and exactly how it will help the people and the economy as a whole.

14. How is he going to give the UN billions upon billions of dollars for Global Poverty, any limitations on what the UN does with it? Any US oversight? Where does that money come from and why should we not use it to fix our own issues first? What coffer does it come from that is not hit via #13?

15. How is he going to fix the current financial institution problem we have concerning sub-prime loans and companies going under? I understand he has a number of the instigators on his staff so should I assume they know a way out of it just as they knew how to get us in this mess?

I may add more later but if those who know Obama can answer the above I would appreciate it. My vote can still be captured and I'm sure others who view this forum would love the answers too. If I think of any others I will post them in a reply. If others have questions that they have then they should post them as well. Answers should be detailed without any of the "Bush fault", "McSame" junk. This is solely for me to understand Obama and as supporters you should be able to answer them to my satisfaction.

thanks...

[AZhitman]

Matt, it's really very simple.

See, you take 1/3 cup of "Hope"... add a handful of "Change", mix in some audacity, a dollop of arrogance, a little bit of polished rhetoric, and a sprinkle of obfuscaton.

Spin it aggressively while shifting from side to side.

Toss it all in the oven, and if it comes out tasting like crap, it's definitely a Republican's fault.

[S13_love]

[audtatious]

Greg has a way with words....

Back on topic:I would still love to get the above answered. If you support Obama then you should know about him or at least do the research to find the answers....

[rn79870]

Here is my short answer as to why I support Obama;

Obama/Biden. Two heads are better than none.

[S13_love]

Here is my short answer as to why I support Obama;

Obama/Biden. Two heads are better than none.

[96Qowner]

LOL, more scintillating analysis from the Obamaniacs.

"Duhuh ... I HATE Bush and Obama talks pretty. Never mind that other stuff - too much to READ, dude."

[mtcookson]

I copied this over to a local board and actually got a somewhat interesting reply. No answers yet but they asked this:

Quote »And Phil Gramm is innocent I suppose? The Glass Steagall Act ring a bell? It was repealed by Gramm, Bliley and Leach. There is some serious bipartisan Tom Foolery going on here.[/quote]

[96Qowner]

Phil Gramm (always loved the guy) has to share some responsibility, very true. He's been one of the deregulation hawks, something that, in theory, is good for the economy. I prefer the way McCain and Palin are talking - Reform. We DO need oversight and regulation of financial markets, but we need to Reform them.

The trouble is that computers have made it possible to package millions of loans and trade the whole bundle at minimal profits. Try this for a rough analogy. Suppose grocery stores could buy an entire year's inventory at a guaranteed price. They could then calculate exactly what gross profit they'd need. Prices would drop, because there'd be less uncertainty - everyone wins. BUT ... if the suppliers turned out to be unreliable, oops, big trouble - food shortages, skyrocketing prices, chaos.

When loan originators stopped having to closely scrutinize the borrowers, requiring no money down, falsifying income, the financial industry found that the income stream they thought was secure ... was not. Now, all these slim-profit packages and trades are turning out not to have the income stream that the computer models predicted. Without any profit, suddenly, huge numbers of these packages are now either worthless or impossible to calculate. They're backed by the homes they were borrowed against, but in this market the homes are worth less. Will they be worth enough in the near future? No one knows, therefore, the banks don't know if they've made a profit or a loss.

It appears the derivatives grew too fast and were too hard to analyze. When politicians started trying to fix the regulatory problems, they ran into trouble with large contributors and entrenched interests, exactly the sort of thing McCain has been fighting for decades. Congress didn't act and the Bush administration didn't focus enough attention on the problems, given the stresses put on the economy because of 911 and the Iraq war. It's usually better to leave the financial markets alone - government seldom helps. This time, that was wrong. It should have been dealt with 2 years ago.

There is no Party to blame. Blame the borrowers, the loan originators who falsified the paperwork, the banks who accepted the paperwork as presented, the arbitrageurs who traded the derivatives for profit knowing they could very well be worthless, and the Bush administration and Congress for failing to act.

[Jesda]

He wants to raise taxes.He wants to increase spending.

I can't stomach the above from either party. Senator Obama lost me long ago, though it could be said that he never had me to begin with.

[dusred]

Matt, it's really very simple.

See, you take 1/3 cup of "Hope"... add a handful of "Change", mix in some audacity, a dollop of arrogance, a little bit of polished rhetoric, and a sprinkle of obfuscaton.

Spin it aggressively while shifting from side to side.

Toss it all in the oven, and if it comes out tasting like crap, it's definitely a Republican's fault.

Sig'd

[audtatious]

So, this thread has been up for how long now? Why is it so hard for a Obama supporter to answer my questions with facts?

[S13_love]

To answer all those questions, you are basically asking us to write a biography of his life and work...hold on and give it time im working on it ...jk

[Jesda]

Phil Gramm (always loved the guy) has to share some responsibility, very true. He's been one of the deregulation hawks, something that, in theory, is good for the economy. I prefer the way McCain and Palin are talking - Reform. We DO need oversight and regulation of financial markets, but we need to Reform them.

No, we need responsible monetary policy. The government does many things, and does none of them well.

[AZhitman]

J is correct - Political bureaucracy and responsible financial management are mutually exclusive.

[S13_love]

1)"At a time when our foreign policy and national security have so obviously suffered from a simplistic, black-and-white interpretation," Ms. Rice added, having "an American president who spent part of his formative years and young adulthood living in a poor country under a dictatorship brings an understanding of the complexity of things that others may not have. I’m not saying that official travels and Congressional delegations are without value, but there are limits to what you can glean from that."-Ms. Rice

2) He organized over twenty congregations to change those neighborhoods and had some "meaningful" victories too, so this is not important at all? I mean, should the city of chicago let those neighborhoods rot?

From doing this organizing thing, he has learned to be able to "connect with people and listening to their needs and trying to find common ground"(I find this an important characteristic or quality to have imo)

Note: Kellman also said "He was more comfortable in dialogue with people."This was always a strength of his as you can tell...

You McCainiacs call it "talking pretty" (<----thats cute by the way), how about good charisma? Tell me, why is this so bad?

9) You're kidding...right? ok... present:absent as yes:noThey mean the same thing when talking about attendance.

How's this for a start? More of your questions will be answered later on.

Modified by S13_love at 11:00 PM 9/23/2008

Modified by S13_love at 11:00 PM 9/23/2008
Modified by S13_love at 11:01 PM 9/23/2008

[smockers83]

Matt, it's really very simple.

See, you take 1/3 cup of "Hope"... add a handful of "Change", mix in some audacity, a dollop of arrogance, a little bit of polished rhetoric, and a sprinkle of obfuscaton.

Spin it aggressively while shifting from side to side.

Toss it all in the oven, and if it comes out tasting like crap, it's definitely a Republican's fault.

Sounds like one of those rap songs where all it is is telling you how to do a certain dance the rapper came up with. I also tried singing that to the Hokey Pokey tune.

[audtatious]

1)"At a time when our foreign policy and national security have so obviously suffered from a simplistic, black-and-white interpretation," Ms. Rice added, having "an American president who spent part of his formative years and young adulthood living in a poor country under a dictatorship brings an understanding of the complexity of things that others may not have. I’m not saying that official travels and Congressional delegations are without value, but there are limits to what you can glean from that."-Ms. Rice

What does that have to do with the price of cheese? Rice is talking about him going to school in Indonesia as a kid (and she is off-base as he was too young to have any understanding of anything). It has nothing to do with the question about what he did while in college.

2) He organized over twenty congregations to change those neighborhoods and had some "meaningful" victories too, so this is not important at all? I mean, should the city of chicago let those neighborhoods rot?

While working for ACORN? What victories did he have and how are they better off today? He stated his role was to get people pissed off in order to vote the way they wanted but does not say anything they did resulted in any change at all.

From doing this organizing thing, he has learned to be able to "connect with people and listening to their needs and trying to find common ground"(I find this an important characteristic or quality to have imo)

He listened to those he worked for and pressed people to do what they wanted. That's not "listening to the people".

Note: Kellman also said "He was more comfortable in dialogue with people."This was always a strength of his as you can tell...

You McCainiacs call it "talking pretty" (<----thats cute by the way), how about good charisma? Tell me, why is this so bad?

It's not if it's honest. Why would I listen to anything Kellman has to say? I'm looking for facts and someone else working for ACORN with Obama is not a valid source.

9) You're kidding...right? ok... present:absent as yes:noThey mean the same thing when talking about attendance.

His "present" votes had nothing to do with attendance. 129 times he voted "present" instead of "yes or no" when it came to votes.

http://www.npr.org/templates/s...48437

Effectively, he voted "maybe" instead of having a valid opinion on something. Pretty poor record if you ask me....

How's this for a start? More of your questions will be answered later on.

At least you gave a couple a try although you are off-base on the answers. The questions all still stand at this point and I can't believe that nobody has any answers to the questions at all, nor are his supporters worried about them nor care in the least.

[AZhitman]

I'm all for S13 being involved ni these discussions - At the very least, he's reading and learnnig, and being exposed to many different points of view.... I'll bet NONE of his peers in school are getting this level of political discussion on a daily basis.

Obama would probably prefer that people disassociate him from his work with ACORN, given their recent (and widely underreported) misbehavior with respect to voter fraud.

[audtatious]

ACORN has been involved in voter fraud for quite a number of elections actually.

[spngr311]

audtatious, thanks for making that post. You pointed out some things that I didn't even realize!

I'd also like to add his education plan and his plans on NASA. He wants to take money from NASA to fund math and science education initiatives. First, NASA is often the inspiration for many school kids to work hard in math and science (I actually have pictures of me as a little kid dressed as John Glenn and had a flight jacket souvenir with patches of shuttle missions on it). Shrinking NASA further diminishes that inspiration in children. Second, NASA is the place that many engineers and scientists work (either directly or as subcontractors). Taking away the source of many of those jobs, besides bad for the economies they support, punishes those that worked hard on math and science their whole lives. Third, NASA's budget represents a very small portion of the national budget at 1%. It won't provide the necessary amount that he would need. Funny that the new JFK wants to hurt the organization he started.

When Obama came to Brevard County (aka the Space Coast) at a Titusville meeting, he flipped on his stance, stating he would not reduce NASA's budget for the Constellation Orion project (Ares would be fair game though, as he made no mention of it). For the years before, he always said he would get the money for his education policy by reducing NASA's budget the same way that Clinton did to get money for Medicare. That hurt NASA badly, there were a lot of layoffs during the mid-90's in the space sector and the related subcontractors (such as my company) struggled to stay in business. So what is Obama's actual stance? If he's going to reduce NASA's budget, then say so and take a stance. I won't be happy about his view, but I don't agree with a lot of his policies (Obama is wrong on energy too, his hope that some magical answer will just happen is entertaining); but at least he'll be taking a stance. McCain may not increase the budget more, but he has said from day one that he will not decrease it.

[audtatious]

There are a lot of things that have been brought up with no valid answers being presented which is why I posted a number of them via questions above. Thus far it seems the Obama supporters do not know him either as only one member has tried to answer any of them.

[S13_love]

Yes...I know that my answers aren't the best, but Im trying, here's another shot...

12) Its not taxing the rich cause they deserve to be, let me ask you this, why do the "less fortunate" deserve to be "punished", they barely make enough money, dont they, for a change, deserve a break too? Let the "less fortunate" have a little more money, since they're in the situation that they are in, they will more than likely spend it, therefore more money is going into our economy and helping it out. The rich will learn to deal with it. I highly doubt there will be any gains, as you raise taxes on the rich, you are also lowering it for the poor, so its kinda balancing it out in way.

Probably not a legitimate answer you were looking for.

13) Not sure, probably get out of Iraq and stop spending all of our money there, then once that happens then we can concentrate on spending money here in the U.S.

14) How is he gonna give them billions of dollars. Well i believe that we've spent over $500 billion for the Iraq war, once all that can stop, then we can have money to spend on other things...such as that. Any limitations? Probably should be. Any US oversight? There sure as hell better be, if i gave billions of dollars to fund some project or whatever, i would be keeping on eye on that like none other. Yes, it probably should be used to fix our issues first, but we cant just turn our back to the world for a x amount of years, multi-tasking is whats going to need to happen.

15) Both candidates cant do anything to fix the financial situation, imo an economy needs to fix itself but right now we are at a point in which we desperately need help, and the government has done so with this $700 billion bailout. I dont think BO will need to worry about "fixing" it right now because we are in the process of doing that right now as we speak, right?

Sorry but as you can see, there are no cited facts that i may or may not have posted up, its late and im just too tired to look up on anything at the moment and......

What...the...f***, um...am I the only BO supporter here, where in the hell are you other guys at out there (i know you're there)...way to go, way to leave me in the trenches taking grenades

...just kidding....but seriously

[audtatious]

I'll take a look tomorrow at your attempt to answer the questions.

I think the other Obama supporters have no clue either which should be alarming in itself.

[AZhitman]

Yes...I know that my answers aren't the best, but Im trying, here's another shot...Probably not a legitimate answer you were looking for.

Save all that apologetic nonsense.

You're a man - KNOW your stuff, SPEAK it confidently, and BACK it up.

You're in here, which is more than I can say for most of your peers. So, WELL DONE SIR.

as you raise taxes on the rich, you are also lowering it for the poor, so its kinda balancing it out in way.

Here's the best illustration I can give you right now:

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like somany others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democratand was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she hadparticipated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that herfather had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. Theself-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truthand she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA,and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"

She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes,she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over."

Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean'soffice and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friendwho only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily firedback, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I'veinvested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next tonothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, " Welcome to theRepublican party."

13) Not sure, probably get out of Iraq and stop spending all of our money there, then once that happens then we can concentrate on spending money here in the U.S.

Good start. I think we're well on our way there. Not as soon as we'd like, but it took us time to get into this mess, it'll take time to get out.

Sorry but as you can see, there are no cited facts that i may or may not have posted up, its late and im just too tired to look up on anything at the moment and......

You did fine. I can see you're actually taking some time to read up on these issues, and that's really what it's all about.

What...the...f***, um...am I the only BO supporter here, where in the hell are you other guys at out there (i know you're there)...way to go, way to leave me in the trenches taking grenades

That surprises you?

[smockers83]

Yeah, don't worry about citing everything. It really isn't necessary, its just that we have one person who has it in for me who tries to belittle everything I say or just outright delete it, which I'm sure you've seen as of late (and quite honestly its a trend that goes back at least a few months). This is a place of discussion, not an area for academic writing. If it looks like you know what you're talking about great. If any of us question it, we'll say so and some of us even do our own research into various topics and issues. With that in mind, think of it as an area to grow your thinking about the world.

[marlin29311]

Here's the best illustration I can give you right now:

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like somany others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democratand was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she hadparticipated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that herfather had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. Theself-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truthand she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA,and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"

She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes,she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over."

Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean'soffice and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friendwho only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily firedback, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I'veinvested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next tonothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, " Welcome to theRepublican party."

By no way shape or form do I agree with taxing the rich anymore and the poor less, but I don't feel that this is a good example for the debate. While in the story the friend Audrey does not work very hard and it would be really stupid for the girl to transfer part of her GPA for fairness, I feel this does not accurately portray a lot of people around. Sure, are there worthless bums that feed off of the system? Yea, of course. But I know there are a lot of hard working blue collar workers out there that squeeze every dime to make ends meet. There are just some areas of the country that the mean income is not that high, and that the jobs available in those areas aren't as good. That doesn't mean that the people are any less harder of a worker or don't care and are just getting by with a free ride.

My idea for a perfect world (and boy do i mean perfect) would be to have states charge income taxes based on their own demographics - kinda like how states govern many things individually already - insurance, etc. By doing this, the tax breakdown can be done more fairly and more tailored to the types of people that live in that state. NJ has a large volume of wealth, moreso than a state like Kansas. In a perfect world, it could work...

But like i said, I am in no way agreeing with changing the brackets. My parents just make the highest level for taxation, but we are in no manner "rich" or wealthy. We have to watch what we spend, etc. We own a nice home, nothing super large or gawdy, pay the highest property taxes in the nation, and now have the highest income tax as well. We could not afford to have more taxes thrown at us - my brother is in college, we have to pay off cars, etc. If anything, the bracket levels should be changed...

[AZhitman]

I'm with you there, Marlin... Like I said, "best example I could give..."

I suspect that those who are fussing the loudest about their taxes (and their mortgage, and their job security) are NOT doing everything in their power to insulate themselves from risk.

I'm betting 90% of them work only one job, bought too much house, spent money they didn't have on things they didn't need, have a $150/mo cable bill, buy smokes / beer / soda, and haven't made themselves indispensable in the workplace.

Just a guess.

[mtcookson]

I definitely have to agree with Greg on that one. I'm personally in a pretty poor position monetarily... but rarely if ever actually complain about it. I just sit at work and try to make it better, come up with new ideas for business, etc. etc.

House wise I definitely didn't over do it there. One of the benefits to living out here is I picked up a nice house with a decent yard for a whopping ~$23,000. My monthly payments are only around $183. What's killing me is the cars. My car payment is actually a little higher than that and I made the mistake of letting my fiance, then new girlfriend, get a new vehicle. That's what really screwed us... a car payment that's nearly triple the house payment.