Obama's Tire Gauge policy. Out of touch with not only people, but also reality.

[srellim234]

Health insurance in it's present form is broken. If car insurance worked the same way it would be broken, too.

Insurance should be for emergency and catastrophic type use, just like car insurance. You don't use your auto insurance to fill up the gas tank or cover a 3000 mile oil change. You shouldn't use your health insurance for check-ups and basic medicines, either. But, we are forced to because the buying group (union, Medicare, any group with a group policy) conditioned members to think they're irresponsibly entitled to it and the companies completed such inflationary pricing practices that now people are forced to do it.

First, since the consumer sees a copay only, the medical companies raised prices the copay amount knowing they could collect full boat from the insurance company, who passes it back to you in premiums. Then, since groups started negotiating prices that included some loss leaders into their contracts, the companies raised prices on other things to offset the losses. Your buying group may negotiate what looks like a favorable deal, but by the time the contract is up for renewal the companies have jacked up prices for each group in the meantime.

I grew up in the pharmaceutical industry and worked on the retail side for 20 years, the wholesale side for 17. If insurance group plans went back to covering what insurance should be there for the prices would drop like a rock. And we could afford basic medical care on our own.

If the government gets any further involved you'll really see a bankrupt and out of control system.

[Soravia]

That's why there should be dozens of different plans to choose from, just like car insurance. I believe that's what Hillary was offering.I wouldn't need any health care other than something emergency. Why should I pay so much when I'm still young and healthy right? I don't even make tons of money anyway. And if everyone chipped in as much as they can, we can really lower the cost since it is not like people are being hospitalized all the time in their lives.

[Soravia]

You know, we could save MILLIONS of gallons of gas if Obama comes up with Mandatory tire pressure checks every month for all the registered cars on the road.

[ishkabibble]

Oh, you don't like having mandatory car insurance?

No, actually. I get nothing out of it. I carry as little car insurance as I legally can.

I bet you like paying tax out of your pocket to pay for all those ER bills though. What? You thought money for ER came out of no where?

How many ERs are run by the government? How exactly do my tax dollars go to ERs?

You know how much health insurance I pay every month? $130. By the way, that's 20% of the cost after my job pays 80%.

That's exactly how the "Congressional health insurance" works. The cost is similar, too.

And you wonder why there are illegal immigrants and jobs getting shipped over seas.

I don't see your point here.

I'd love to pay a fixed percentage of the income as cap for my insurance.

Who picks up the rest of the tab? Me?

I don't think Hillary would have people put in jail because they don't buy insurance. She would just take them of their pay checks like we pay tax now. Only that it would actually come back as health insurance instead of paying for someone's $1,000 'energy check' or tire gauges.

I don't know why you are trying to draw a comparison with tax withholding, when most people who get health insurance through work have the premium withheld from their paychecks.

^ Once again, srellim is on point.

[Soravia]

Just so you know where your tax money paid to uncle sam goes to.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26061635/

That's Medi-care on your paycheck, something you usually don't get to use but going out to other people. Don't forget the grants and so on to private and public funded hospitals as well.

As for car insurance, your unwillingness shows your irresponsibility. I hope you get hit by someone without insurance.

[ishkabibble]

Just so you know where your tax money paid to uncle sam goes to.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26061635/

That's Medi-care on your paycheck, something you usually don't get to use but going out to other people. Don't forget the grants and so on to private and public funded hospitals as well.

I still don't get how forcing everyone on to a health care plan is going to change anything. People who can't afford health care are still going to be on Medicare.

As for car insurance, your unwillingness shows your irresponsibility. I hope you get hit by someone without insurance.

On the contrary, I have a perfect driving record and enough funds to cover damage should I ever be at fault in an accident. I've essentially paid in tens of thousands of dollars in premiums to line the pockets of the insurance companies and gotten nothing in return.

I hope you get banned for wishing me ill will. You suck.

[Soravia]

I'm not sure if you're gonna cover up to $50K for damage to a person. Medical bills are pretty high, you know.

[ishkabibble]

Yep, I know.

[AZhitman]

How many ERs are run by the government? How exactly do my tax dollars go to ERs?

Ummm, you ever see a County Hospital?

[AZhitman]

No, actually. I get nothing out of it. I carry as little car insurance as I legally can.

Not a great idea.

Economically speaking, additional coverage only adds a few bucks a year... All it takes is one accident and you're sued for a cool mill... I'd rather let my insurance company duke it out with the aggrieved party and sit by the pool sipping a margarita.

Once you've paid for minimum coverage, increasing it is pretty cheap.

Hit a school bus full of kids and see how fast your minimum coverage goes bye-bye.

Being a "good driver" is irrelevant. I have 23 years of accident-free motoring, multiple HPDE's and track training, Pursuit Intervention Techniques, and have driven damn near anything with wheels... I could still be involved in an accident that's not technically my fault, but still be sued.

Umbrella policies are a smart bet as well.

[ishkabibble]

Yep. Does said county hospital simply take unpaid bills out of tax dollars and "eat the loss", so to speak, or does it instead compensate by raising the fees for the people who do pay? I bet it's the latter.

[smockers83]

I'm not sure if you're gonna cover up to $50K for damage to a person. Medical bills are pretty high, you know.

Not only medical bills, but lost wages as well, rental cars, possibly funeral costs, etc. Add multiple people in one vehicle, could get expensive. And its not always you, but the other driver.

How many ERs are run by the government? How exactly do my tax dollars go to ERs?

Do you not understand the system or haven't been watching the news as of late?

[srellim234]

A few years back I slowed for traffic on the Harbor Freeway and the guy behind me never even hit the brakes. He was a Mexican national, here on vacation legally, with insurance through a Mexican company. My company wound up taking care of my car because of the totally uncooperative Mexican company. Good thing I had a good insurance man and I was a good enough customer that they went out of their way to take care of me.

I don't know if my company ever got the money back from across the border, but to me the insurance I had was sure worth it.

[ishkabibble]

Actually, it is a great idea. It's all about probability. Factor in that I drive probably less than a tenth of what you do.

Anyone can try to sue me for a cool mil if they want... will they get a mil? Nope. In fact, they're likely to get nothing outside of what my insurance company would pay.

[ishkabibble]

Do you not understand the system or haven't been watching the news as of late?

Please give the really vague questions a rest and SHOW me where I'm wrong. I can't read your mind.

[AZhitman]

Yep. Does said county hospital simply take unpaid bills out of tax dollars and "eat the loss", so to speak, or does it instead compensate by raising the fees for the people who do pay? I bet it's the latter.

ER's are required to provide care for people regardless of insurance or ability to pay.

The rest comes from taxpayer dollars.

"The Harris County Hospital District alone doled out $330 million in free medical care to illegal immigrants over the last three years."

"One-quarter of the population in Miami-Dade County, Florida, lacks health insurance, well above the national average (about one-sixth of the nation's population is without health insurance). To address the problem of financing health care for the uninsured in Miami-Dade and elsewhere, the state of Florida in 1991 passed legislation allowing local jurisdictions to impose a surtax on sales. The legislation restricted the use of the proceeds of any Miami-Dade County surtax to support the activities of the county's sole public health-care facility, Jackson Memorial Hospital (JMH). Miami-Dade County voters approved the surtax, which has helped stabilize the financially troubled hospital."

http://www.wilsoncountynews.co...pital

http://www.insidearm.com/go/ar...doors

I'm not trying to be a butt, Ish... just pointing out that sometimes you're not spot-on.

[ishkabibble]

If someone ever hits my NX and I'm screwed out of my car, I go and buy another NX. Carrying collision on my car would be moronic.

[ishkabibble]

Show me that a majority of hospitals are publicly run and have surtaxes like that or eat the costs for unpaid bills without raising the fees on paying customers, and I'll concede the point to you guys.

[smockers83]

Please give the really vague questions a rest and SHOW me where I'm wrong. I can't read your mind.

Eh, I usually don't use vague questions, but sometimes they have a purpose and a reason. It makes you question yourself and makes you learn it on your own and think. Why? Because if I always say something and we differ on many other things, what's to say you don't believe me and try to discredit me? Why should I have to teach you everything? This way, you learn for yourself and really find out what's out there. Hell, the education system doesn't even teach you everything, much of it is learning on your own. The reason this time for the vague question is because you'd have to be shut off from the news for a long time to not even know of the situation, plus the previous statement of why.

What Greg mentioned is only one example of a major issue.

[AZhitman]

If someone ever hits my NX and I'm screwed out of my car, I go and buy another NX. Carrying collision on my car would be moronic.

I don't mean comprehensive / collision. I mean more-than-minimum liability.

[ishkabibble]

Here's why... because it comes off as a grade school tactic.

Kid 1: "I bet you don't know about how hospitals work!"

Kid 2: "Yes, I do."

Kid 1: "Ok, then tell me!"

Outside of the fun debates, I do come here to learn, as do others. So, either back your posts up with concrete info, or feel free to go hang with your peers in 240 Gen.

For what it's worth, I'll admit that I'm fairly ignorant about how hospitals operate. But I find it hard to believe that unpaid ER bills are coming directly out of my Federal tax dollars, or state taxes in a majority of states. Someone needs to show me that it happens - I'm not a "blind faith" kinda guy.

[Soravia]

Well most Obamites are, simply because they just got out of highschool and can't find jobs and the Obama people bused them to the voter registeration.

You see the Obama effect? There are more un-informed people than informed people. So getting votes from un-informed or biased people is a sure way to win an election. The archille's heel of democracy.

[smockers83]

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf - from the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons

http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...N.htmh ... 05...login

An easy Google search could have yielded those for you. Need any more? Go find them. Educate yourself instead of being uninformed.
Modified by smockers83 at 12:18 AM 8/9/2008

[ishkabibble]

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf - from the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons

Thanks for that. Ok, now I get it. People go in, Medicare or Medicaid foots the bill on the state and federal government's dime.

Now to read how Hillary's plan takes care of this problem.

Edit: for future reference, you don't necessarily need to point out specifics... but at least tell me what to read about

[smockers83]

Edit: for future reference, you don't necessarily need to point out specifics... but at least tell me what to read about

Fair enough.

[rn79870]

Well most Obamites are, simply because they just got out of highschool and can't find jobs and the Obama people bused them to the voter registeration.

Let me see if I understand this. You're saying that most Obamites are unemployeed high school graduates who got bussed to voter registration?

Okay, I didn't know that. Do you have a cite on it?

[Soravia]

http://www.al.com/news/birming...age=2h ... /p....stng

I wasn't exactly saying unemployed. More like can't find jobs as in can't find good jobs easily. Young people expect to have good jobs as soon as they get out of school. And of course, most at that age also think they know more than anyone else. Easiest voters to be influenced, same way that most Palastanian suicide bombers are young people.

I believe it is such an irony that most of Obama supporters (around 20) would also be the ones who drive without check tire pressure, even if they were given a tire pressure gauge.

[rn79870]

It's not unexpected that Obama will draw the attention of minorities, after all, they look to his campaign as a sign of better times. Dems have traditionally been more social issue orientated than the Reps.

[stopcamping]

http://www.al.com/news/birming...age=2h ... /p....stng

btw, these links do not prove that "most" BO supporters "just got out of highschool and can't find jobs and the Obama people bused them to the voter registeration."

[stopcamping]

There are more un-informed people than informed people.

I'd also like to see an example supporting this claim.