Obama's Aunt - Asylum - Immigration Control

[WDRacing]

You're insinuating that Americans are lazy and not an asset while immigrants are? That's all kinds of flawed bro. Anyone can be highly motivated. Look at the amount of unemployed right now. Now tell me that bringing in more immigrants that aren't employed is going to help the people currently without jobs. Baring in mind that we already have thousands of immigrants that can't find work. These are the same immigrants that you're referring to as an asset.

Like I said earlier, we already HAVE enough of these "hard working motivated" immigrants and anymore is just adding more burden and consuming more resources. If you don't have jobs for people, how does adding more people make things better?

As far as welfare and such programs go you'd have to be equally blind to not see every state in the union slashing social programs because they can't afford them. They weren't the cause for the recession, or even close for that matter, not that I insinuated that they were. They are however, a drain which you already stipulated to.

Welfare, Health Care, Education

Once the Fed Gov pays for all of those things, any worth that the motivated immigrants brought is already in the negative because of the others that now require the titty.

*EDIT*
I'm not trying to come across like a prick if I am. I suck at reflecting any emotion but abrasiveness and humor

[AZhitman]

I'm not even asking for mass deportations.

All I want is for the Federal Governemt to enforce the damn laws that are ALREADY on the books, and DO the job they're paid to do.

Quit ignoring OUR law enforcement officers when they make a legal apprehension of an illegal immigrant.
Quit telling the American people you're sending 1300 more people to assist on the border, when they're ALL desk jobs.
Quit misrepresenting people's frustration as race-based. It's not.

Here's my take: If you're here illegally, and you can make do without bringing attention to yourself, good on ya. Enjoy.

But for now, close the damn border, stop the bleeding, and let's regroup and figure out what we're going to do. Is it fair that some made it in before we closed the border and some didn't? Nope. But we bear NO responsibility to non-citizens to offer "fairness". Sorry, that's a perk of being a US citizen.

[IBCoupe]

You're insinuating that Americans are lazy and not an asset while immigrants are? That's all kinds of flawed bro. Anyone can be highly motivated. Look at the amount of unemployed right now. Now tell me that bringing in more immigrants that aren't employed is going to help the people currently without jobs. Baring in mind that we already have thousands of immigrants that can't find work. These are the same immigrants that you're referring to as an asset.

Yes, anyone can be highly motivated, but immigrants are special, as we're dealing with a very particular pool of individuals. It's the difference between looking at all Americans and all Liberians, versus looking at all Americans and only those Liberians who take the effort to move to America.

As far as welfare and such programs go you'd have to be equally blind to not see every state in the union slashing social programs because they can't afford them.

They're slashing everything, though, is the thing.

[IBCoupe]

Greg,

When you say "close the border," are you saying it in the WDRacing sort of way, or are you saying it as synonymous with "secure the border?"

And back to your H1 visa thing - they only approve 75,000/year (or 0.03% of the over-18 US population as estimated for 2009), if I recall correctly. And I don't know if you personally do the hiring for your company, but I've been told that it's relatively expensive to hire a foreign worker, as the H1-sponsorship comes with a fee that smaller firms opt not to buy into.

The availability of H1 visas (or unavailability, as the case may be) is one of the reasons why my girlfriend and I will probably be married by the end of the year.

And WDRacing,
I just noticed a bit that I had missed: providing more competition for unemployed workers won't help them, if that competition is more eager to work and more pleased to settle for less than they are. But immigration hasn't ever been about helping unemployed workers; it's been about getting ourselves cheap labor and new ideas. We're adding competition to the employment and business markets, and how can that be bad?

[AZhitman]

Greg,

When you say "close the border," are you saying it in the WDRacing sort of way, or are you saying it as synonymous with "secure the border?"

For now, a full stand-down, Berlin Wall-type closure is in order. We need time to regroup, and Maxico's leadership needs time to pull their cabezas out of their culos.

We can discuss limited and controlled entrance and exit LATER.

And back to your H1 visa thing - they only approve 75,000/year (or 0.03% of the over-18 US population as estimated for 2009), if I recall correctly.

Correct. That's plenty. We don't have the resources for more.

And I don't know if you personally do the hiring for your company,

I fire, not hire.

I've been told that it's relatively expensive to hire a foreign worker, as the H1-sponsorship comes with a fee that smaller firms opt not to buy into.

Correct. I believe it is under $2k.

But immigration hasn't ever been about helping unemployed workers; it's been about getting ourselves cheap labor and new ideas. We're adding competition to the employment and business markets, and how can that be bad?

That may be the case with workers from the middle east, the far east, Europe, Asia, Africa... That's NOT generally the case with the types of immigration we're discussing here.

[IBCoupe]

Well, let's be clear. You may not be calling for an end to immigration from those other world regions, but there's certainly an argument being put forth for exactly that.

[AZhitman]

Again, "immigration debate" means Mexico. Don't fool yourself.

It's probably more obvious here than there, but let's not delude ourselves - this is about illegals coming up from Mexico.

[IBCoupe]

Well, Greg, that's not where I was coming from, and it doesn't look like that's where WDRacing was coming from, either.

The immigration debate, especially when viewed in the context of what started this thread, is not confined to the topic of illegal immigration, or even Southwestern illegal immigration. That may be what's highest on your priority list, but it's not the only thing there is to immigration, and it's certainly not the only thing there is to say about immigration.

A friend of mine drives a Porsche in NY. He makes upwards of $3000/week on a good week, and he's not here legally. And he's not Mexican.

[audtatious]

As far as welfare and such programs go you'd have to be equally blind to not see every state in the union slashing social programs because they can't afford them.

They're slashing everything, though, is the thing.

Yet there would be less slashing of social programs for US citizens if there were no drain on it by illegals, correct? There is a direct association in this instance of US citizens being hurt and penalized due to those who broke our laws getting here illegally. Do you think a family of 4 who are on hard times due to unemployment feel better at night that illegals were able to get welfare when their own kids are going to bed hungry due to lack of food?

[WDRacing]

Well, Greg, that's not where I was coming from, and it doesn't look like that's where WDRacing was coming from, either.

My thoughts mirror what Greg said.

[IBCoupe]

Do you think a family of 4 who are on hard times due to unemployment feel better at night that illegals were able to get welfare when their own kids are going to bed hungry due to lack of food?

Hyperbole buys you nothing. That family's plight and illegal immigration have literally nothing to do with each other.

An estimated 6.25% of Arizona's budget in 2009 went towards welfare programs. Compare that to Nebraska's 5.4% or Delaware's 6.6%, and you'll notice that it's about on par with every other State. Even if you make the absurd claim that all of that belonged to illegal immigrants, that's still not going to create enough of a cut to make the budget happier.

If there's a problem, it's with the state programs, not with who's using them, and that's another conversation entirely.

[IBCoupe]

My thoughts mirror what Greg said.

Then it's my mistake. For the record, though, it was this that made me suspect otherwise:

Lifted? How about closed for an indefinite amount of time. The last thing a country recovering from a recession needs is more people consuming resources. Be it jobs or social services, we have enough mouths to feed.

[stebo0728]

What I woulnt give for a Point of View Gun sometimes ...

[IBCoupe]

It won't work on me, I already have Asperger's.

Maybe I don't; no official diagnosis yet. But manipulating the quote works easier this way than "It won't work on me, there's a high probability, based on an objective assessment of my behavior and comparison with common symptoms, that I have Asperger Syndrome." And even though Asperger Syndrome wouldn't make one omniscient, it certainly helps to extract a colleague's argument from its emotional shell.

[WDRacing]

I'm Scottish/Irish/Welsh...Psychology doesn't work on me and alcohol is in my genetic code My POV rarely agrees with many people