Obama cancels manned space exploration...

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 011322.ece

While he cut the budget for manned space exploration...he also increased the budget for robotics.
This could perhaps be the worst blow to the scientific community he could make. What other profession grants instant recognition, fame, and respect without even giving them your name? Who are our children going to idolize?
The past 50 years of technological progress has arguably been thanks to the Apollo missions. It's a broad statement to make, I know, but an entire generation of scientists grew up with Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong to inspire them. What will drive them now? A Roomba?
Kennedy had the forethought to understand what a cultural, technological, and economic force putting a man on the moon would become.
I guess I should be thankful he didn't kill NASA entirely.

Thoughts?

[bcar240]

This is something I have been following with great interest (being that it deals with my job). IMO, This policy is a real piece of work and my opinions on it are very extensive, too much so to try to create a comprehensive response because I know I would leave things out. Here is my overall take on it, if anyone has any specific questions I will answer to the best of my ability:

First, the Pres convened a panel to investigate continuance of human space flight. It doesn't so much diss any particular program or the technology, but just says that NASA's Constellation program was overbudget and running late only because it has been chronically underfunded since the beginning. From this, the Pres somehow decides to basically ignore his own panel and scrap Constellation entirely. Cancel the manned rocket, cancel the new heavylift rocket, cancel the crew capsule, cancel the lunar lander and the entire moon/Mars exploration program, etc. Problem is, he didn't just cancel the development, he called off the MISSION of exploration and hasn't really said what is supposed to replace it for the future of manned spaceflight. Now, I am not saying that Constellation was the absolute best way, but at least it was SOMETHING and it would have eventually worked. Now there are no concrete goals or guidelines to plan for.

NASA itself is now set to retask away from a "space agency" mentality to a science and research agency. He's proposed giving "grants" to several different companies (partially funded with government money) to all go out and try to design and build their own rockets essentially from scratch with little experience, and build them to commercial safety specs that don't exist yet. If they succeed (not by any means guaranteed, they could take the money and fail with no strings attached), the government would be put in the position of buying back seats on commercial rockets that they paid to design in the first place. The biggest fear is that the gamble falls flat on its face and the commercial companies all fail and we will be several years down the road with no rocket and no viable program to build one.

[szh]

Extremely disappointing.

Is there ANY way that we can get my tax suggestion thread (search for it!) implemented? I want to be able to designate where the Government spends my tax money - I want it to go 100% to NASA.

Z

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

NASA itself is now set to retask away from a "space agency" mentality to a science and research agency. He's proposed giving "grants" to several different companies (partially funded with government money) to all go out and try to design and build their own rockets essentially from scratch with little experience, and build them to commercial safety specs that don't exist yet. If they succeed (not by any means guaranteed, they could take the money and fail with no strings attached), the government would be put in the position of buying back seats on commercial rockets that they paid to design in the first place. The biggest fear is that the gamble falls flat on its face and the commercial companies all fail and we will be several years down the road with no rocket and no viable program to build one.

As it stands now...we will be forced to piggyback on Russian rockets in order to secure passage to the Space Station that WE more or less built and suggested.

[wingFeather]

Dislike.

[bcar240]

As it stands now...we will be forced to piggyback on Russian rockets in order to secure passage to the Space Station that WE more or less built and suggested.

Isn't it sad ?
In 2009, we put 37 people into space (34 on Shuttle and 3 more on Soyuz). After the Shuttle retires, we are currently slated to launch only about 6 per year until further notice. The replacement is just not acceptable, and I think people will come to their senses before long and cooler heads will prevail, hopefully before it is too late.

[UpStar]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 011322.ece

While he cut the budget for manned space exploration...he also increased the budget for robotics.
This could perhaps be the worst blow to the scientific community he could make. What other profession grants instant recognition, fame, and respect without even giving them your name? Who are our children going to idolize?
The past 50 years of technological progress has arguably been thanks to the Apollo missions. It's a broad statement to make, I know, but an entire generation of scientists grew up with Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong to inspire them. What will drive them now? A Roomba?
Kennedy had the forethought to understand what a cultural, technological, and economic force putting a man on the moon would become.
I guess I should be thankful he didn't kill NASA entirely.

Thoughts?

I applaud the move. The fat has to be cut from somewhere and why not NASA. Its about time.

Maybe NASA should take notes from this guy:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Camera-Spac ... -6255.html

total cost...$750

[audtatious]

I applaud the move. The fat has to be cut from somewhere and why not NASA. Its about time.

Maybe NASA should take notes from this guy:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Camera-Spac ... -6255.html

total cost...$750

Hmmm...considering that a large number of the technological advancements we have seen have been the result of space-related research and development I really don't know why you would think this would be that great of a deal. Maybe Obama figures with enough pressure the open market, which he despises, will decide to fund up and replace the NASA exploration initiative. VERY doubtful it would ever happen. But, for him, NASA has more important things to do like research Global Warming.

[WDRacing]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 011322.ece

While he cut the budget for manned space exploration...he also increased the budget for robotics.
This could perhaps be the worst blow to the scientific community he could make. What other profession grants instant recognition, fame, and respect without even giving them your name? Who are our children going to idolize?
The past 50 years of technological progress has arguably been thanks to the Apollo missions. It's a broad statement to make, I know, but an entire generation of scientists grew up with Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong to inspire them. What will drive them now? A Roomba?
Kennedy had the forethought to understand what a cultural, technological, and economic force putting a man on the moon would become.
I guess I should be thankful he didn't kill NASA entirely.

Thoughts?

I applaud the move. The fat has to be cut from somewhere and why not NASA. Its about time.

Maybe NASA should take notes from this guy:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Camera-Spac ... -6255.html

total cost...$750

Well there's a surprise...you agree with whatever is being sold.

I could fund NASA with the money Liberals waste on drug addicted welfare families...

If it were up to me, I'd see all of them starve to death. Why? Because the Constitution doesn't grant you the right to my f*** pocket. Now my boys will grow up ignorant to Space Exploration, while the first African American President runs the Nation into the gutter.

Thanks Obama

[szh]

I applaud the move. The fat has to be cut from somewhere and why not NASA. Its about time.

Maybe NASA should take notes from this guy:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Camera-Spac ... -6255.html

total cost...$750

Hmmm...considering that a large number of the technological advancements we have seen have been the result of space-related research and development

Yup. Including the chip industry that led to microprocessors and the computer that everybody is using to access the Internet and this forum ... faster and faster.

I'd rather cut the gross amounts of "fat" from social programs - and salary reductions for Congress (and all their tag-alongs). NASA operates a hell of a lot leaner than those ridiculously bureaucratic institutions.

Z

[bcar240]

NASA's funding is so relatively small it is laughable that anyone would bother trying to save any appreciable amount by cutting it. The percentage of our national budget that NASA gets is about 1/10th what it was during the 1960s. But the new plan actually increases NASA's funding, just doesn't provide any worthwhile way to spend the money. And even if the entire budget was diverted to social programs (as some demand), it would only change the social program budget from $1.581 trillion to $1.597 trillion.

It is estimated that for every $1 spent on NASA, the country eventually gets $7 back in the form of taxes of those that it employs and the R&D spinoff companies who develop NASA technologies into commercial products. Stuff like this and more:
http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.s ... m_nas.html

Maybe NASA should take notes from this guy:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Camera-Spac ... -6255.html

total cost...$750

These guys did something very similar for even less!
http://space.1337arts.com/

VERY doubtful it would ever happen. But, for him, NASA has more important things to do like research Global Warming.

Indeed, very unlikely for a manrated vehicle to come out of industry any time soon, if it was as easy as they make it sound, it would have already been done. And it's funny that the people in charge seriously believe that doing things like researching global warming will actually continue to inspire future generations the same way spaceflight does.

I'd rather cut the gross amounts of "fat" from social programs - and salary reductions for Congress (and all their tag-alongs). NASA operates a hell of a lot leaner than those ridiculously bureaucratic institutions. Z

I'd fully agree with that. The major reason NASA has a reputation for waste is because every 4 to 8 years, a "regime" change comes along and cancels programs and shakes up funding allocation, causing a lot of effort and funds to be wasted in the resulting changeover, not to mention the incredibly demoralizing effect to the scientists and engineers. The industry often refers to this as the "four-year design cycle".

[UpStar]

Now my boys will grow up ignorant to Space Exploration, while the first African American President runs the Nation into the gutter.

Thanks Obama

Sure, but make sure you educate your boys on the first anglo-american father and son team that spent tons of money on useless & illegal wars that killed/crippled countless US troops and at the same time broke the country and sent us into a recession while on his way out of office and then work your way to Obama’s space cancellation decision and lets see what they think. Don't sell your boys the foot notes, sell them the entire book!! Again, I support the move

Muchas Gracias Senor Obama

[WDRacing]

Dude...stay on topic please. This isn't about Bush jr and sr...but its amazing that you Liberals keep bringing them up for no reason...other then when you run out of things to say.

I'd stop the war today if I could and I hated both Bushes. I'm not a damn Republican, I'm just against cutting off funds for space exploration when we dole out money to Liberal pet projects instead.

Bad decisions don't make other bad decisions any better. Wake up dude...

EDIT*

If Obama was to reign in spending across the board I'd support the stoppage of most things NASA. Not forever mind you, but for a time to be determined by our debt. But the spending isn't being cut back where it needs to be. We're still dumping billions of $$ into "I sure hope this works" types of funds. Like all the money wasted on trying to keep people from foreclosing. It's spent 100's of billions and it's helped maybe 1/10 of the people that actually need the help. Thanks for the tax credits also...1 in 5 people that try to use the new home buyer tax credit get a nice friendly audit from the IRS. We're spending and additional 2.5 billion so the IRS can perform said audits. So we're spending money to spend money.

BTW, Obama could have corrected the Bush SR/JR war already, kinda like he said he was going to. But he didn't, he decided maybe I'll do the opposite and pour more troops and money into a war that isn't even winnable. So don't act like Obama has his hands tied. He's no better then either of the previously mentioned losers.

[UpStar]

...but its amazing that you Liberals keep bringing them up for no reason...other then when you run out of things to say.

I knew it wouldn't be long before the liberal thought oozed from your brain! Say something original besides the ole liberal liberal liberal chatter. Its old! Amazing Again...just to stay on topic, Im glad the space program has been canceled. Im sure its only temporary, but the move is an excellent one for now

[WDRacing]

You always provide such excellent posts...so much substance.

[bcar240]

Again...just to stay on topic, Im glad the space program has been canceled. Im sure its only temporary, but the move is an excellent one for now

Just for the sake of clarification and making sure we are all on the same page: yes, he canceled the space program, but still INCREASED NASA's budget... So, with that in mind, are you saying you just don't want the space program in principle right now or that you would have supported cuts?

[WDRacing]

When I was in grade school, we used to stop class and all watch the shuttle launch on TV. It was always a really big deal. I've been a supporter of manned space flight ever since.

Not that that has anything to do with this topic, just thought I'd share. Kids these days are ignorant to whole space program in comparison. Sad really.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

He is my new hero.
http://wimp.com/tysonnasa/

[szh]

He is my new hero.
http://wimp.com/tysonnasa/

Indeed! Very, very well said and done!

Z

[JustinStrife]

Now my boys will grow up ignorant to Space Exploration, while the first African American President runs the Nation into the gutter.

Thanks Obama

Sure, but make sure you educate your boys on the first anglo-american father and son team that spent tons of money on useless & illegal wars that killed/crippled countless US troops and at the same time broke the country and sent us into a recession while on his way out of office and then work your way to Obama’s space cancellation decision and lets see what they think. Don't sell your boys the foot notes, sell them the entire book!! Again, I support the move

Muchas Gracias Senor Obama

If stupidity hurt, you'd be in a medicine induced coma at a hospital.

[szh]

What we are heading for ...



Z

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Well...thankfully American private business is stepping up top the plate to try and fill that void (Pun?)
SpaceX and other private companies have active Orbital Rocket programs that currently can launch payloads into LEO and soon human beings as well. So hopefully we won't have to rely on other countries too much. Granted the Soyuz rockets are much more powerful so some jobs we would have to outsource.
Then there is the whole issue with how do you coordinate between a private and publicly funded company.

AGH...this whole situation makes me so MAD. People need to get their heads out of each others asses long enough to see that the future of the human species IS OUTER SPACE. None of this low earth orbit bull crap.

[HashiriyaS14]

I don't really agree with this decision either, but we CAN'T keep using the shuttle and there ARE private-sector boosters that are very near readiness. It will be 2-3 years at the outside until we can go back to launching astronauts to the ISS in (private) American rockets.

In the meantime, he did actually INCREASE the NASA budget. It wasn't a cut, he just said we were going to stop doing certain things, one of them being shuttle launches.

[audtatious]

And doing other things, like trying to prove MMGW

[HashiriyaS14]

And doing other things, like trying to prove MMGW

Link?

(not doubting, it'd figure, I'm just curious)

[audtatious]

It was a Orlando Sentinel news article concerning the 2011 budget that I can't find at the moment. In fact, any portion concerning MMGW may have been stripped out of the budget text since then (Feb).

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Good...that isn't NASA's job.

[srellim234]

I'd like to see him fund a search for intelligent life on Capitol Hill.....

[bcar240]

It was a Orlando Sentinel news article concerning the 2011 budget that I can't find at the moment. In fact, any portion concerning MMGW may have been stripped out of the budget text since then (Feb).

Yeah, there was a big deal about increasing focus on "earth-science" and MMGW was a big part of it, the budget for that branch is forecast to go up 60% over the next 4 years. IIRC, at one point in the initial announcement Obama seriously suggested that NASA would continue to inspire the future generation by stepping up earth science and global warming research. Yeah, that's just as cool as rockets and stuff right?

The Shuttle is indeed not viable as a long term solution, many of it's components are approaching end of service and there are no suppliers for several parts or procedures to certify them for additional life. For example, I've been told some Shuttles are flying with nicked/cracked windows because they cannot procure any more (of course the windows have several layers of redundant panes.) Supposedly, there are a MAX of 5 more external tanks in various stages of construction they can finish without a massive ruckus. But they've already pulled the tooling to produce them out of the factory, so any more after that would be several years of work and re-qualification.

One major problem with commercial spaceflight right now is that the companies will be required to design to a safety specification for manned spaceflight that is not even written yet. Any work done before that is released is all guessing at what those specs will say. The supposed premise of this plan is to remove government competition from the launch vehicle market, so the companies will be forced to step up and will not have to compete with the government itself, so they are almost guaranteed to get contracts if ("if" - the major issue) they can produce a good product. Even if possible, the chance that a commercial entity can produce a vehicle on time and budget is about nil looking at past performance (about on par with NASA). However, I've heard some very bad ideas coming out of this. Proposals to lower per-mission cost such as spacecraft electrical power systems consisting of nothing but pre-charged batteries and a serious suggestion that a 95% mission success rate would be acceptable. The other 1 in 20 flights would have to do emergency aborts during ascent and get to "re-do" the mission later.

[BusyBadger]

Muchas Gracias Senor Obama

For...another broken promise?

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/policy/S ... _FINAL.pdf