Nuclear Power Push

[bigbadberry3]

I'm sitting here on a Friday night studying for my E&M test and like 99% of college students, am trying to procrastinate. While surfing the tech section of Yahoo! found this

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/201...plant

I'm glad Obama is attempting to keep another (or at least 1) campaign promise by trying to implement "greener" energy into the grid. Yes, nuclear power isn't entirely green or as clean as wind/solar/etc but right now it is a feasible technology and that is arguably an effective and cleaner source of power. The price is competitive to both natural gas and coal so what's the hold up? There have been two major accidents (both caused by human error) I can think of but nuclear plants are built with safety in mind from external attacks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jxrJR26IdY

Everyone complains about costs of projects being built but in order to make an omelet you gotta break a few eggs and environmentalists will complain about anything like wind farms that would guillotine passing birds into extinction. Would someone please inform me as to why nuclear power plants have been on hold for the past 30 years or so because I feel as if I'm being too naive.

[AZhitman]

I've always been a supporter of nuclear.

My Dad was a QC Engineer for the largest builder of nuke plants in the world, so I was kinda raised in it - I've toured a few facilities and done a few reports for school on nuke power, the NRC, etc.

Both "accidents" were irrelevant. TMI never endangered human life, and Chernobyl was a halfass job without strict NRC oversight.

There's really no clear and compelling reason NOT to pursue nuclear.

If Mr. Obama was REALLY smart (he's not), he'd be putting his support behind measures like these:

http://www.popsci.com/environm...clear

OR, he could be VERY progressive (pfffft) and throw his hat in the Thorium ring - http://www.guardian.co.uk/envi...clear

THIS is some promising stuff, but it's not real glamorous to the unwashed hippie green crowd like wind, solar and hydro (all of which are pathetic potential sources, comparatively).

[srellim234]

AZ- which company was your dad with? My brother has been a QC manager for Bechtel since the '70s. Among others he worked the construction of the Palo Verde plant there in AZ.

I agree with you 100%. Build it an operate it correctly and it's a proven entity.

[AZhitman]

AZ- which company was your dad with? My brother has been a QC manager for Bechtel since the '70s. Among others he worked the construction of the Palo Verde plant there in AZ.

I agree with you 100%. Build it an operate it correctly and it's a proven entity.

I'm a Bechtel kid.

They must have worked together. He was with Bechtel from probably 1977 to the late 80's.

He was at Palo Verde from 1985 til whenever it went online (1987?).

Previously, he worked on Grand Gulf (MS), Wolf Creek (KS), White Horse Beach (MA).

[srellim234]

I'll check with my brother this weekend about what years he was there. I'm pretty sure he was still there in '85 and '86. Still owns a house in Glendale and rents it out.

He started with Bechtel in nuclear, working on one in Taiwan from here, then Palo Verde, then Bay Cty, Texas. After that he moved to the Ted Williams tunnel as part of the Big Dig in Boston, multiple projects in other states, and right now he' living in Colorado Springs and working just east of Pueblo. Still with the company.

[bigbadberry3]

Thanks for the links AZ and that's pretty cool about your dad, you probably indirectly or directly know more about nuclear power than me if your dad talks about work like mine. I had never heard of thorium power but what I read from it this morning (still choosing not studying I mind you), but it does look to have a significant amount of potential. I was most familiar with pebble based reactors from your link but all of those reactors do require some significant science which is why they are still "futuristic" but I'm glad to see that people aren't content with today's reactors and their outputs.

[BusyBadger]

Would someone please inform me as to why nuclear power plants have been on hold for the past 30 years or so because I feel as if I'm being too naive.

I was just talking to someone about this this past week. For a while the major objection of the treehuggers was the potential safety issues of reactors, now that those have been pretty much discounted the issue now seems to be how to store the nuclear waste.

Renewing the nuclear power program would serve the dual purpose of freeing up the country from dependence on foreign energy as well as creating jobs (that stay in the US).

As much as I dislike France it's a great example of a working nuclear power program. Nearly 80% of their electricity is produced from nuclear plants and they export around 20% of the electricity produced to other countries.

I get so damned tired of hearing those opposed to fossil fuels talking about green power when green power can't support the power demand. But nuclear power is out of the question because its so "unsafe" and toxic. We don't live in a perfect world and there are some choices that need to be made, windmills and solar cells alone won't cut it. Harnessing the power of the atom is currently the best option for a number of reasons.

[AZhitman]

Here's the thing, and I've always believed this - even when I was a little kid:

The moon ain't doing s***. We can store that stuff out there, where it can't do any harm. Think of the jobs it will create - Sending entire construction companies to the moon to build holding facilities for nuclear waste.

[srellim234]

To fire it up an soft land it on the moon we could probably just calculate gravitational pulls and use disposable launch vehicles to let it free fall into the sun. Permanent disposal.

Think of the fun the tree huggers will have with the thought of putting that stuff up in the air.

[audtatious]

Yeah, that's the problem. "What if" the rocket blew up and spread contamination in the air. "Why pollute another planet". blah blah blah.

I believe we have been storing nuke waste in the Yucca Mountain area but the Senate passed a bill to close it. Obama has also cut funds for Nuke waste sites as well. Obama is also pressing forth to tax coal plants to the point that they will end up closing. That leaves oil (also want to tax to death), natural gas (oh noes), wind, solar.

[srellim234]

Don't forget hydroelectric.

A combination of all technologies is necessary if the human population is going to continue to grow in numbers. Partcularly if it continues to consume more and more energy.

No option should be "off the table" at this point. There is a proper time and place for all of them.

[bigbadberry3]

Tree huggers hate hydroelectric if you're referring to hydroelectric dams due to the environmental destruction that occurs behind the dams. I think tidal hydroelectric is a unique and promising idea for energy. Again, it's a very underdeveloped field especially compared to conventional hydro electric power.

Audatious- Yucca is the most well known nuclear dump. However, it has never seen any type of nuclear waste due to legal challenges and such which is why Obama shut down funding to the waste site. However, there are many nuclear waste sites, possibly closer to your house than you would believe.

http://www.nrc.gov/waste/spent....html

There are so many dangers in every day life that"what ifs" could be applied. If you stopped to think about them, you would never get anything done and drive yourself insane of fear of imminent death. But then you use reasoning and logic to be safe. The same applies to nuclear waste.

[audtatious]

Tree huggers hate hydroelectric if you're referring to hydroelectric dams due to the environmental destruction that occurs behind the dams. I think tidal hydroelectric is a unique and promising idea for energy. Again, it's a very underdeveloped field especially compared to conventional hydro electric power.

Tree huggers hate anything done in the name of man. They would prefer all man to be gone from the planet.

Audatious- Yucca is the most well known nuclear dump. However, it has never seen any type of nuclear waste due to legal challenges and such which is why Obama shut down funding to the waste site. However, there are many nuclear waste sites, possibly closer to your house than you would believe.

Ah...Thought they did Nuke too. No, there are no nuke waste sites near my home that I'm aware of (or listed on that link)

[MagikDragon]

Coal and oil get bad reputations, but in all honesty, we need them in conjunction with nuclear PP's.Nuclear power plants are good for maintaining a steady load but they cannot ramp up or down on power as easily as Oil or Coal can. Coal is also a 100% US born product, keeping money and jobs right here in the USA. The problem isn't whether we should have nuclear or not (because we should), but we should be focusing on keeping emissions and costs down.We also need to put money towards the grid. For the past few decades, all the profits have gone into keeping the plants operational and keeping the CEO's wealthy. Nobody has put money into upgrading the grid. Now with the fact that consumers can buy wind turbines and solar panels, it is causing havoc to the grid and the power plants. Something needs to be done about that first and foremost before we build more power plants and have no way of getting the energy to the end user efficiently.

[WDRacing]

The only reason Nuke power can't supply all of our demand is because we haven't invested in it's development. We should be leaps ahead of where we are. We've been breaking atoms and putting people into outer space since before I was born.

We've had sustainable nuclear extensions of America floating around the Ocean for A LONG TIME now...

We should be storing all of our Nuke waste in Afghanistan and Pakistan

[seang]

We should be storing all of our Nuke waste in Afghanistan and Pakistan

Then it can be close to terrorists! You are joking, right?

[srellim234]

Not if it's delivered there by cruise missile.

[cmfireman]

I'm all for new nuclear. I'm a nuclear equipment operator at a plant in the southeast and am very confident of the safety and health of the public and myself.

Honestly, I worry more about equipment failure (steam line break in the turbine building or a pump flying to pieces) more than radiation hazards, although these things are x-rayed and tested thoroughly.

I've been looking into the design of the Westinghouse AP-1000 plant, and if the NRC approves everything and we start building I would love to be at a new plant on the initial startup.

As far as waste, as far as I know, all the waste that has been generated to date is stored on site in borated plastic lined concrete casks with serious air handling units, monitoring systems, and failsafe power supplies.

Bring on the job security!

[szh]

We should be storing all of our Nuke waste in Afghanistan and Pakistan

Not if it's delivered there by cruise missile.

Or how about storing in Northern Ireland maybe - I hear that the IRA is starting to bomb places again. Perhaps, Tim McVeigh's home town is available! Hmmm ... how about Waco, Texas or Jonestown, Guyana?

My point being that using the actions of an insane few people (the terrorists) to propose nuking entire regions of otherwise normal human beings - like you and I, but about whom you know nothing - is not exactly funny, is it?

Z

[WDRacing]

Actually Z when you said Northern Ireland I did chuckle. Life is to short to take everything serious

My sense of humor is on par with say, Dennis Leary or someone similar.

Didn't mean to offend homie, I have nothing but love for the Z man

Logistically it would be far easier to store all the waste in Cali anyway, I'm a big fan of the "2 birds with 1 stone" theory

[szh]

Actually Z when you said Northern Ireland I did chuckle. Life is to short to take everything serious

My sense of humor is on par with say, Dennis Leary or someone similar.

Didn't mean to offend homie, I have nothing but love for the Z man

Logistically it would be far easier to store all the waste in Cali anyway, I'm a big fan of the "2 birds with 1 stone" theory

Oh, I know where you are coming from, believe me.

Regardless, I do want to get everybody to learn more about foreign lands before they jump to conclusions fostered by the usual media exposure on negative things only. Pakistan is an awesome place to live in many, many ways, not so good in others, just like many parts of the world. I am definitely saddened by what the terrorists have done there in the past decade ...

Remember that many people have died in bombing attacks in Pakistan - aimed at the people who live there, because they do not have the same religious extremism as these folks want. Unfortunately, in western media, this never gets reported much, except in passing, because it does not affect life here.

Along with most rational people, I have absolutely NO sympathy for terrorism or terrorists whatsoever. But, since they do have bases in the hidden wilderness (it is a surprisingly big country) and uneducated followers who support them, and there was indeed some truth to the "active support from officials high up in the government", the whole country gets the tar brush too hastily.

Hence, I try to emphasize the positive as much as I can too - particularly to get people to go beyond the usual media hype and learn more about life there. Yeah, it is not perfect, and yes, things could do with a lot of improvement still, but it is not as bad as it is made out to be.

If you all are willing to view and read and listen, I will try to find some Internet links that may explain this a lot better ...

Z

[srellim234]

Z- Sorry I didn't indicate I meant the cruise missile comment as a joke. I was definitely not being serious.

[szh]

Z- Sorry I didn't indicate I meant the cruise missile comment as a joke. I was definitely not being serious.

I did not think either you or Brian was really serious. I suspect that I am a more sensitive than I need to be about this too.

Regardless of which, I would love for you all to do some reading about my original home country ... even though I am an American citizen now, of course, having lived here for almost 36 years.

Z

[BusyBadger]

I suspect that I am a more sensitive than I need to be about this too.

Better toughen up before the Boss sends you to Moderator Boot-Camp!

In other news...lookie lookie!

[WDRacing]

Sadly I've only been in that part of the world while wearing the uniform. Hard to hang out with the locals that way

[szh]

Sadly I've only been in that part of the world while wearing the uniform. Hard to hang out with the locals that way

Depends.

A number of years ago, my sister happened to call up the American Consulate in Karachi (before it shut down) on a July 4th - forgetting that it was a US holiday. The person who answered the phone was the US Marine on guard duty at the front ... all the other employees were away on vacation.

He sounded pretty sad that he was alone in the building that day, so she chatted with him for a while, and, as I recall, she made some brownies and took it over to him too, but I may be misremembering that.

Z

[WDRacing]

but I may be misremembering that.

Excellent phrase, I'll be borrowing it

[srellim234]

... but I may be misremembering that.

Z

Spoken like a politician!

[szh]

Spoken like a politician!

I have to admit that I could never be a politician - I don't know how to lie!



Z

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

I am 100% in support of Obama for going through with this.There are absolutely no reasons why Nuclear should be avoided. The "wastes" that are created still contain use-able radiation...something along the lines of 70% left over once the rods are removed from the water.Even if we don't utilize technologies to use this waste...there are safe ways to dispose of it.My favorite being the Space Cannon to fling the spent fuel rods into the sun.http://www.popsci.com/technolo...space

My mom also worked at a nuclear facility in Ohio.