Note on Altima's bose audio quality

[mcheddadi]

Extracted from a NissanClub thread..

"IMPORTANT - note on Altima's bose audio qualityI just returned from the audio shop where I was to embark on a new speaker setup, replacing the factory bose system speakers, and keeping the head unit. I just didn't feel the factory system was powerful or accurate in terms of accoustical value. I had ordered a set of JL audio XR components for the front and coaxial for the rear deck, along with a 10w1 JL sub in the trunk to the tune of about $1700 worth of goods. Well...................I was seriously mistaken. The installer took my car for a ride to determine which speakers the nav audio emits from. For the hell of it, he said, he took along his reference CD, and audio tuner that he uses to tune finished systems. When he popped in the cd and started to play with the settings, he got a lump in his throat and in his words said "oh ****." The factory bose system was the most accurate system in terms of mid and high range, that he had ever heard or tested, it was just missing the low range. Against the sales guys advice, he decided to call me to the shop so he could show me what he was talking about. I had the bass turned up pretty high in order to get a sense of power, which is what I thought was lacking. When doing so, the bass gets muddy up front and it just brings down the sound quality. He then put the bass at mid level, and turned on the sub..........BOOM. That's what was missing from this system. With a good quality sub in the back, it improved the perceived sound quality from the bose system 10 fold. The 6 1/2" midrange speakers sounded much better as did the 6x9's in the back deck. The installer said he just coulnd't let me spend that much money to tear apart a system like this, and not improve the sound quality one bit, and possibly, lessen the quality. In the end, I ended up trading everything for a top of the line subwoofer setup, that can be completely removed when it comes time to sell the car. The audio shop owner felt bad that they had sold me all of this ****, and didn't bother to test what I was replacing it with. So they gave me a crazy deal on the new setup. For $1000, I am getting a JL audio 8W7 in a custom fiberglass box, powered with a US Amps AXTU1000C tube amplifier. Retail we are talking over 2 grand! Point is, if you are planning to replace your speakers, consider just adding a good sub. From what I heard, it sounded like a completely different sound system with the sub filling in the deeper bass."

Now to find a good sub lol

[AppleBonker]

I saw this before and couldn't really help laughing. Here is my favorite part:

The factory bose system was the most accurate system in terms of mid and high range, that he had ever heard or tested, it was just missing the low range.

If a salesperson/installer told me that, I would leave the shop immediately. I really wish I would've run a frequency response sweep on the stock Bose system just to show people how horrible it is. I'm not sure what this installer was using to tune the system, but if he thinks the Bose system is the best that he's EVER heard, something is wrong. This sets up a vicious cycle. Seems like no matter what system he put together, he wouldn't be able to tune it well enough to sound better than the Bose system. But if he's that incapable of tuning a system, what makes him think the Bose sounds so good? I just made my head hurt...

[marlin29311]

I wish I could figure out a way to turn my car's system into my Shure SE-210 headphones. I would love that.

[unique2.5]

thats what i did..i just added a pair of subs in the back and i think it sounds great..with just the lows added the standard bose system definitely gets the job done

apple..maybe he means out of the standard factory systems and hasn't tested too many. with that being said the bose system in our cars is much better than many of the factory systems of other cars

[rjdmmfl1]

Applebonker, clearly this was both an inexperienced and incompetent installer. For those of us that have listened to dozens and dozens of setups (SQ and SPL) one mention of Bose being the best at anything is just plain ridiculous.

As far as factory systems go... I've heard cars with harmon Kardon and Mark Levinson sound systems that would destory the best sounding Bose system any day of the week. Bose is only best at convincing naive and uninformed folks that their products actually sound good!

People may think Red Lobster is real seafood.... until they go to a real seafood restaurant!

[AppleBonker]

I've heard cars with Mark Levinson sound systems that would destory the best sounding Bose system any day of the week.

Ah, if my memory is as accurate as I feel it is, that was the best sounding stock stereo I've ever heard. I wish more people were more knowledgeable about A/V so that this would become more common. But, since the average person thinks that Bose > Levinson, we're generally stuck with this crap.

To unique, I'm totally not trying to bash your system. The Bose system may be better than some, but to my ears it sounds terrible (obviously just my opinion, and most people aren't as crazy as I am that they're willing to spend more than $5k on a car stereo). I've also heard systems that cost far more than mine (and put mine to shame), so it's really all a matter of perspective (once you've driven a GT-R, sitting in the driver's seat of a 370z just wont feel as awesome). I've said it before and I'll say it again, my goal is never to ruffle feathers. My opinion is nothing more than just that!

More than that, if the installer really did think the Bose system was the best stock system he's ever heard, he's still a bit incompetent. Check this out. That's a pretty good review of some stock stereos. Notice, they mention Bose, but not in an all too favorable light. Now, most sites are unlikely to give truthful reviews about Bose due to the fact they might get sued (here). Even though they would likely win the case, the cost in legal fees does not make it worth it to them to review Bose stuff. Check out HiFi publications and you will not see Bose reviews for this reason.

I could go on and on about why I dislike Bose, but I know that's not needed here. Personally, I'm opposed to supporting any company that follows a business model like Bose (spend all sorts of money on advertising, put out a mediocre product and try to sue anyone that disagrees with your ads). This is also why I refuse to buy monster cable products.

[unique2.5]

oh yeah i completely agree..i wish i had all the money i want to spend on my sound system cus im bigger on sound than even performancethere is definitely better stuff than the bose factory system. but the bose is also better than many other systems and i say that because i like to be thankful for what i have even if its not the best and if i plan on changing it. many of my friends drive old corollas and accords and my old car was a dodge neon so in terms of the factory system i get the bose is far better. now i just have to save a bit of more money to change it out and make the car sound way better

[gli liphon]

Just to throw my .02 in... I definitely agree that the unwashed masses buy brand. Bose has done an amazing job with their marketing to make themselves a luxury brand with gimmicks (tiny surround systems, 2 speaker surround, hide-away bass modules, etc). I'm definitely no audiophile, but one piece of advice has always worked for me: buy what sounds good to you. Testing and setup only get you so far before your own aesthetics kick in. I would never buy a home theater system from bose, I can't stand their midrange sound. But I'm really quite happy with how the bose system sounds in my car. Who knows, maybe its because its brand new and it'll degrade over time, but for a stock system my ears are liking it. I'm kind of curious about that Mark Levinson system now though.

So not to completely derail, but along the lines of audio quality... This is the first car I've had with satellite radio and the compression and artifacts drives me insane. Not sure if that gets any better with a different HU, but its seriously worthy.

[rjdmmfl1]

yeah, my dad loves jazz, and he bought the Sc 430 the day they came out (back in 01 or 02 i think)... the mark levinson sounds sytem was unlike any factory system i had ever heard. if you go test drive a lexus Sc 430, it may make you consider selling your A/C and buying a 3-4 year old used SC 430... well maybe not that far, but seriously, the mark levinson sounds that good!

[mcheddadi]

my sat radio subscription expired and i'm stuck with FM radio for my jazz/lounge/techno music so I don't know if i'd see the difference

[AppleBonker]

my sat radio subscription expired and i'm stuck with FM radio for my jazz/lounge/techno music so I don't know if i'd see the difference

Yeah, but since satellite radio is so compressed, you're probably better off (with the exception being you now have to deal with commercials). The craptastic quality of satellite radio is why I've never had a subscription. If they actually increased quality and marketed it as such, I would've been all over this a long time ago. But I'm sure as hell not going to pay for quality that is inferior to terrestrial radio (not to mention FAR inferior to my iPod).

[unique2.5]

i only have 2 weeks left on mine

[vonivo]

Guys if your policy is already expired call them and tell them you were offered a deal for $77 bucks for the whole year they will honor it and you'll get sat. radio dirt cheap.

If your about to have your contract run out you can do the same thing by calling them and telling 'em that you cant afford or don't think it is worth full price and half price seems more reasonable. For both situations they will transfer you to another rep and connect you under the $77 buck deal i have been paying this in all of my cars (one car at a time) for the last 5 years. Just make sure in both cases you mention the $77 deal...

[marlin29311]

Yeah, but since satellite radio is so compressed, you're probably better off (with the exception being you now have to deal with commercials). The craptastic quality of satellite radio is why I've never had a subscription. If they actually increased quality and marketed it as such, I would've been all over this a long time ago. But I'm sure as hell not going to pay for quality that is inferior to terrestrial radio (not to mention FAR inferior to my iPod).

CD's FTW I can't even stand the sound of my iPod sometimes - I encode the majority of my music at 192kbps, and even that pisses me off sometimes....

...makes me wish i had the spare change for some new equipment in the a/c, but i don't want to really go ripping stuff up and such...

Does Polk make car stuff? I love my Polk's on my home theater...

[rjdmmfl1]

CD's FTW I can't even stand the sound of my iPod sometimes - I encode the majority of my music at 192kbps, and even that pisses me off sometimes....

...makes me wish i had the spare change for some new equipment in the a/c, but i don't want to really go ripping stuff up and such...

Does Polk make car stuff? I love my Polk's on my home theater...

your system is only as good as the weakest link... music can be burned as high as 320 kbps, and it will come out nicer than cd quality. In your case, if your music doesn't sound good through your ipod, its because of the 3.5mm jack used in your car's system. The new Murano, and many other factory ssytems out there come with a true USB style input for the ipod, the same type of connection that plugs into the ipod for charging on the computer. By using this type of high bandwidth connection, the music comes out MUCH MUCH cleaner compared to a 3.5mm jack, and of course it allows for video output as well.

The beauty of the aftermarket stereos is that they all offer this same type of high bandwidth connection, that way, if you save your music in 320 kbps quality, it can be repsoduced as such.

Lastly, the usb inputs on most aftermarket stereos also allows for the same type of studio quality sound to be repsoduced on the stereo!

Sorry Marlin, but this is just one more limitation in the long line of limitations in the factory setup!

Or to put it all another way, right now you are taking an HD signal and trying to play it through a composite RCA cable, and that's why your HD signal comes out bad. For music transfer, quality changes from poor to good as follows....

3.5mm < composit RCA < Digital RCA < HIgh Bandwidth (usb style unput)< fiber optic < HDMI

of course the last two are unavailable in car audio, but you see where the 3.5mm jack falls

[marlin29311]

your system is only as good as the weakest link... music can be burned as high as 320 kbps, and it will come out nicer than cd quality. In your case, if your music doesn't sound good through your ipod, its because of the 3.5mm jack used in your car's system. The new Murano, and many other factory ssytems out there come with a true USB style input for the ipod, the same type of connection that plugs into the ipod for charging on the computer. By using this type of high bandwidth connection, the music comes out MUCH MUCH cleaner compared to a 3.5mm jack, and of course it allows for video output as well.

The beauty of the aftermarket stereos is that they all offer this same type of high bandwidth connection, that way, if you save your music in 320 kbps quality, it can be repsoduced as such.

Lastly, the usb inputs on most aftermarket stereos also allows for the same type of studio quality sound to be repsoduced on the stereo!

Sorry Marlin, but this is just one more limitation in the long line of limitations in the factory setup!

Or to put it all another way, right now you are taking an HD signal and trying to play it through a composite RCA cable, and that's why your HD signal comes out bad. For music transfer, quality changes from poor to good as follows....

3.5mm < composit RCA < Digital RCA < HIgh Bandwidth (usb style unput)< fiber optic < HDMI

of course the last two are unavailable in car audio, but you see where the 3.5mm jack falls

Oh I completely agree with you bud - I hate the 3.5mm jack, which is why I use real CD's for the most part...music compression sucks!

I'd really like to see DVD audio become more prevelant...i have maybe one or two DVD audio discs that were produced along side of their CD equivilants - they're amazing!

[AppleBonker]

music can be burned as high as 320 kbps, and it will come out nicer than cd quality.

Well, not entirely true. Assuming the source is a CD, and lossy compression (such as converting to MP3) is going to result in degraded audio quality. However, I will agree that a 320 kbps encode of a song will likely be indistinguishable from its CD counterpart. It's difficult to get anything better than CD quality in a car (unless you can rock DVD-A or SACD, but it wouldn't be practical to throw a turntable in a car to listen to LPs).

And yes, I went there with LPs.

3.5mm < composit RCA < Digital RCA < HIgh Bandwidth (usb style unput)< fiber optic < HDMI

of course the last two are unavailable in car audio, but you see where the 3.5mm jack falls

Haha, I had fiber optic in my last car. I could do it again with my current configuration, but the adapter for my HU to output digital fiber optic is ~$100. I'm currently just using the proprietary Alpine connector (which still transmits digital audio, so it should be no different from running fiber). I've yet to see HDMI in a mobile app, but I wouldn't be too surprised if someone has done it.

[AppleBonker]

I'd really like to see DVD audio become more prevelant...i have maybe one or two DVD audio discs that were produced along side of their CD equivilants - they're amazing!

You and me both. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem too likely. Both DVD-A and SACD (side note: ever looked into these? The recording of Dark Side of the Moon is maybe one of the best multichannel audio pieces I've ever heard) have been around for a while and still haven't taken off. Most people are far more interested in visual effects than audio (I can all but guarantee that Blu-ray is smoking both multichannel audio formats combined). I almost wish more people were like me and placed more of an emphasis on audio - I've got more invested in my home theater speakers/receiver (you've all obviously seen my car gear) than I do in my TV, and the TV is no slouch. Ah, just wishful thinking I suppose.

[rjdmmfl1]

Well, not entirely true. Assuming the source is a CD, and lossy compression (such as converting to MP3) is going to result in degraded audio quality. However, I will agree that a 320 kbps encode of a song will likely be indistinguishable from its CD counterpart. It's difficult to get anything better than CD quality in a car (unless you can rock DVD-A or SACD, but it wouldn't be practical to throw a turntable in a car to listen to LPs).

And yes, I went there with LPs.

Haha, I had fiber optic in my last car. I could do it again with my current configuration, but the adapter for my HU to output digital fiber optic is ~$100. I'm currently just using the proprietary Alpine connector (which still transmits digital audio, so it should be no different from running fiber). I've yet to see HDMI in a mobile app, but I wouldn't be too surprised if someone has done it.

How did I forget to mention DVD audio... yet another added bonus of the aftermarket headunits... most of the top of the line audio units (kenwood DNX-8120 for example) will read DVD-Audio discs... if anyone has ever heard a DVD-A disc, you'll know its definately worth it!

You and me both. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem too likely. Both DVD-A and SACD (side note: ever looked into these? The recording of Dark Side of the Moon is maybe one of the best multichannel audio pieces I've ever heard) have been around for a while and still haven't taken off. Most people are far more interested in visual effects than audio (I can all but guarantee that Blu-ray is smoking both multichannel audio formats combined). I almost wish more people were like me and placed more of an emphasis on audio - I've got more invested in my home theater speakers/receiver (you've all obviously seen my car gear) than I do in my TV, and the TV is no slouch. Ah, just wishful thinking I suppose.

When a blu ray player becomes available for the car, I wouldn't mind adding it. I think we're only a few years away from these headunits being available with blu ray disc and High definition TV capabilities.

Panasonic had a 480p enhanced definition disk player for the car a few years back, maybe the y still have it, but even the 480p ED in that unit was noticably better than all of the rest of the units available for the car. i expect the first unit with blu ray and HDTV to run about $3500... and yes, I'm getting one!

regarding home audio, thank god i still live in an apartment where I can barely ever use my surrond sound system, so I have no need for a nice home theatre system.. but once I start practicing medicine and build my own house... .... there's a guy I know here in San Diego that spent $500K on his home audio system.... but this guy also can HEAR the difference between a system using copper wires vs platinum wires... I PRAY TO GOD I never become that much of an audiophile...

the more discerning your ear gets, the more money you have to spend to get a system that sounds good to your ears.. sometimes, ignorance is bliss!

[maxentropy]

totally agree with the OP-- I'm going to install dual 10s in the back for added thump but my mids and highs are awesome.