Not sure I what I am experiencing is the "death sway"

[neros1916]

Hello everyone. My 1997 Pathfinder v6 4wd is swerving(fishtailing, feels like hydroplaning) when I take my foot of the gas. When I am accelerating or have constant pressure on the gas pedal, there is no swaying or rocking even at high speeds of 60+mph. However, no matter what speed (although it is only noticeable above 30mph) , if I remove my foot off of the gas pedal rapidly the rear end will jerk and swerve..it feels kind of like hydroplaning in the rear for a second. Needless to say, when this happened to me at 70mph I was extremely scared.

I have read tons of posts about the rear lower/upper trailing arm (control arm) bushings being bad. However, my car does not sway while gas is being applied, only when I take my foot off the gas pedal, and it is an instantaneous jerk and swerve..

Here is a description as it happens:

If I am driving say 60mph and I lift my foot off the gas pedal, my car will violently jerk and do a swerve (feels like from the rear). It is never continuous either; going 60mph, lift foot, jerk & swerve, if i do not apply gas again the car will slow down and stop as normal, completely free of any swerving or jerking.


If i was going 60mph and took my foot off the gas, my car will jerk and swerve, then if I apply gas I will keep going (note: applying the gas did not correct the swerve, the swerve happens and is over), and if take it off the gas again I will swerve.

I apologize if this seems jumbled, I did my best to describe

Thank you all for your support!

[Towncivilian]

I believe this still counts as death sway. I get moderate death sway - enough to be uncomfortable - when riding next to or behind a semi truck, probably due to the drafting effect. Otherwise the rear end stays pretty firmly planted in my case.

TSB NTB98-001 references "Excessive play in the rear axle especially during moderate acceleration or deceleration."
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5mpmm ... sp=sharing

Welcome to NICO!

[asnorton44]

Seems like there has been a surge in 'death sway' threads; I'd imagine a lot of our trucks are hitting the mileage where they need to be replaced.

[4xq]

There is one other part keeping the rear axle where its supposed to be - the panhard rod. It is supposed to prevent lateral movement of the axle. It runs from the back side of the axle up to the underbody.

I would examine that closely as well.

[neros1916]

Thank you all for the feedback so far. I think I am going to just replace the lower rear control arms and see if that fixes it..I can get them both for brand new for $115 shipped. I realize it is wise to replace all, but I went into Les Schwab today and the tech was very familiar with these and let me go under the car and look at my bushings. They are totally almost non-existent on the rear lower control arms.

[blkqx4]

Funny i ran into this thread i was goin to make a big thank u thread for all the input that people put in this page great job. I just finished installing the complete suspension system in my 99 qx4
Moog front and rear coil springs
Kyb excel g / gr2 gas struts
Kyb gas ajust shocks
Moog strut mount kit and bellows bump stop
4x4parts.com trailing arm bolts ( a must had to cut/heat)
Upper and lower trailing arms ( true blue comp. On ebay)
Drive axles (need that too)
Sway bar links front rear
sway bar bushings rear and front.
my front control arm bushings were fine so were my tie rods and ball joints.
rear control arm bolts are a pita hole e cow man was that a female dog. The two on the bottom by the drums were torched off they were ceased had to cut them. Oh and dit my brakes while i was at it.
Prices
$450 labor had to ask the guy if i help how$$$$ i did must work but he had the tools ( the torch and lift)
Sway links $ 34 ebay
trailing arms $ 185 ebay company called true blue (cheapest)
Moog springs $ 31 rear, $54 front rockauto.com
Strut kyb $ 85 i shop found one on ebay and rockauto.com
2 moog strut mounts $ 85 ebay
trailing arm bolts $ 49 4x4parts.com ( shipping was $14)
2 Strut bellows kyb $ 34 ebay
kyb gas ajust shocks $ 50 shop 1 on rockauto 1 on amazon
Sway bushings $ 15 got them at autozone
TOTAL: $1072 ( wtf didnt know it was that much)

shop for your parts if u can afford to wait to do it all at onces this job took us 6hrs. Truck drives amazing didnt know thats what she was suppose feel and drive, so nice.
I believe this job is shop recommended u really need a lift for space to work on i am in pain still and i had all the tools.
Hope i didnt discourage anyone. Read this forum it has a lot of useful information i go hear before anyone touches my truck is a lot cheaper that way.

[abnrjd]

Bottom line U HAVE THE DEATHSWAY!!!! your upper and lower control arms bushings are worn out period. Do not replace the entire arm it'll happen again! Go to 4X4 parts.com order the split polyurethane replacement kit. It come with the replacement nuts, bolts, sleeves and 8 sets of split design bushings. I have them on my 2004 LE path NO MORE DEATH SWAY 4 ME!!! trust me on this!

[donald]

Thank you all for the feedback so far. I think I am going to just replace the lower rear control arms and see if that fixes it..I can get them both for brand new for $115 shipped. I realize it is wise to replace all, but I went into Les Schwab today and the tech was very familiar with these and let me go under the car and look at my bushings. They are totally almost non-existent on the rear lower control arms.

you should check which set is causing the quick swerve at the rear.

I read on the forum (this or NPORA?) that you should get under the truck (sitting on tires is okay, if you can get underneath) and try to twist the upper and lower trailing arms. If they twist easily or bushings show obvious deterioration then that is likely your cause of sway.

So, my point is, even if you replace the lower trailing arms... the upper arm bushings may be bad too, so you may still get the rear-swerve upon harsh acceleration changes.

In my case, I get the rear swerve both depressing and releasing the gas pedal
I'm in the planning stages of replacing bushings.

I believe this still counts as death sway. I get moderate death sway - enough to be uncomfortable - when riding next to or behind a semi truck, probably due to the drafting effect. Otherwise the rear end stays pretty firmly planted in my case.

TSB NTB98-001 references "Excessive play in the rear axle especially during moderate acceleration or deceleration."
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5mpmm ... sp=sharing

Welcome to NICO!

Does a service bulletin mean they'll do the work for free? or is it just a notice to the dealership/mechanic that similar complaints may be resolved via service bulletin notice?

[donald]

Bottom line U HAVE THE DEATHSWAY!!!! your upper and lower control arms bushings are worn out period. Do not replace the entire arm it'll happen again! Go to 4X4 parts.com order the split polyurethane replacement kit. It come with the replacement nuts, bolts, sleeves and 8 sets of split design bushings. I have them on my 2004 LE path NO MORE DEATH SWAY 4 ME!!! trust me on this!

Did you happen to replace any of your sway bar (front or rear) bushings?

[Towncivilian]

Technical service bulletins are not recalls, they are just informative bulletins intended for dealers to aid repair of specific issues.

[robbykennedy]

Bottom line U HAVE THE DEATHSWAY!!!! your upper and lower control arms bushings are worn out period. Do not replace the entire arm it'll happen again! Go to 4X4 parts.com order the split polyurethane replacement kit. It come with the replacement nuts, bolts, sleeves and 8 sets of split design bushings. I have them on my 2004 LE path NO MORE DEATH SWAY 4 ME!!! trust me on this!

How difficult is it to replace just the bushings and not the entire arms?

[asnorton44]

Bottom line U HAVE THE DEATHSWAY!!!! your upper and lower control arms bushings are worn out period. Do not replace the entire arm it'll happen again! Go to 4X4 parts.com order the split polyurethane replacement kit. It come with the replacement nuts, bolts, sleeves and 8 sets of split design bushings. I have them on my 2004 LE path NO MORE DEATH SWAY 4 ME!!! trust me on this!

How difficult is it to replace just the bushings and not the entire arms?

I'd say harder because not only do you have to get the entire arm out anyways you have to get the bushings pressed out as well.

[robbykennedy]

I see, so I have to remove the arms and take to a shop where they do this kind of work. Have them press out the old bushings and press in the new ones. It takes more time and have to pay the shop to do the bushings anyways.

[asnorton44]

I see, so I have to remove the arms and take to a shop where they do this kind of work. Have them press out the old bushings and press in the new ones. It takes more time and have to pay the shop to do the bushings anyways.

It takes a bit more time and money, BUT you know if you go poly you will never have to do it again. I've heard replacement stock bushings can go bad in a few years.

I just replaced all my control arms, and given my truck already has 195,000 miles I just went the cheap route and got regular arms.

[asnorton44]

Well to add to my last post I suppose the "easy" route would be getting stock arms which run ~$150 for all 4 aftermarket. Poly can be cost effective if you can do it/friend can or a shop at a good price. Depends on your situation.

[donald]

Referenece thread: replacing-rear-control-arms-guide-t587665.html

It's not TOOO bad of a job to do just the bushings yourself.
If you plan to do it yourself, I'd say the 2 most important tools you'd need is a jacklift+stands and a sawzall.
You should have general tools such as a mallet, socket drivers and wrenches, and a torque wrench.
HOPEFULLY you have a solid impact power driver, because those nuts would have difficult (for me) to take off without it - due to tight space and awkward angles underneath the truck.

The sawzall is to cut the metal sleeve on the OEM/old rubber bushing. Then you can generally pry and knock out the old sleeve. As easy as that sounds, it does take some patience - if using sawzall, must go slowly and check every now and then to make sure you don't cut past the sleeve and into the trailing arm.

[Homertjones]

Well to add to my last post I suppose the "easy" route would be getting stock arms which run ~$150 for all 4 aftermarket. Poly can be cost effective if you can do it/friend can or a shop at a good price. Depends on your situation.

I've just bought a 1997 Pathfinder and from what I'm experiencing and reading about, I have the same problem. Though I can't find any bushing for all four arms that are less than just buying brand new arms with the bushings already installed. Does anyone know where I can get them at a lower price or should I just go with ordering the replacements?

[Pathfinder2002]

Everyone,
I'm having the same problem with my 2002 Pathfinder with 143,000 miles on the it.
So reading about the death sway I've decided to do reisearch.

You can buy a set with new arms for $147.00 from ebay. That's a great deal with no headache for cutting and pressing in bushing out.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Trailing-C ... L0&vxp=mtr

Also since my Pathfinder only started to get the sway and the bushing are still ok, I've decided to go another route.
Adding Air-Lift Bag's. This set up does two things. Puts back a little stability back in the rear. Second will also help sagging springs. Every time I go camping and pack up the SUV the rear sag and the ride is firm with very unforgiving body impact with a full load. Now the SUV rides the correct high fullyloaded. The Air Lift Bags also makes adjustment for different loads. I love the ride now and I hit bumps without the loud crashing sounds coming from the rear.
Installing took about 2 hours max, and the total cost was $79 from amazon.

[donald]

Well to add to my last post I suppose the "easy" route would be getting stock arms which run ~$150 for all 4 aftermarket. Poly can be cost effective if you can do it/friend can or a shop at a good price. Depends on your situation.

I've just bought a 1997 Pathfinder and from what I'm experiencing and reading about, I have the same problem. Though I can't find any bushing for all four arms that are less than just buying brand new arms with the bushings already installed. Does anyone know where I can get them at a lower price or should I just go with ordering the replacements?

So you're comparing 2 different solutions (sort of).
When you read many people that replace JUST the bushings (and likely keep using the old trailing-arms), they're doing it to upgrade from the weaker, insufficient standard rubber bushings, specifically polyurethane (aka poly, for short) which provides a stiffer flex when stressed one way or another.

Going the route of just replacing the arms with brand new arms is certainly an option, however you'll likely get the same rubber-type bushings that failed on you in the first place. My 2001 Qx4 is running at about 235,xxx miles, and by the looks of it, the engine and transmission are still doing very well.

Some people go an optional 3rd route, which is both: buy new arms, replace the rubber bushings with poly.

[donald]

Everyone,
I'm having the same problem with my 2002 Pathfinder with 143,000 miles on the it.
So reading about the death sway I've decided to do reisearch.

You can buy a set with new arms for $147.00 from ebay. That's a great deal with no headache for cutting and pressing in bushing out.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Trailing-C ... L0&vxp=mtr

Also since my Pathfinder only started to get the sway and the bushing are still ok, I've decided to go another route.
Adding Air-Lift Bag's. This set up does two things. Puts back a little stability back in the rear. Second will also help sagging springs. Every time I go camping and pack up the SUV the rear sag and the ride is firm with very unforgiving body impact with a full load. Now the SUV rides the correct high fullyloaded. The Air Lift Bags also makes adjustment for different loads. I love the ride now and I hit bumps without the loud crashing sounds coming from the rear.
Installing took about 2 hours max, and the total cost was $79 from amazon.

http://i.imgur.com/fvBu6w5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4mSgcHz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/41TJ4J2.jpg

I'm don't wish to argue with your solution, but rather would like to give my opinion if that's ok.

You mention you're experiencing the "death sway" as caused by failing trailing-arm bushings, but you don't see any issue with your bushings. Are you sure? Again, I don't mean to offend you by questioning you, but just a visual may not do it. Also - did you check all 8 bushings, upper and lower trailing-arms? Check to see if the steel spacer (that is, where the bolt goes though) is separated from the rubber bushing. Sometimes the steel spacer which the bolt goes through will separate and thus not allow the bushing to do it's job of flexing and compressing when the truck's balance goes off (ie. the sway). Also check for cracks or pieces of rubber missing, tears in the rubber. If I recall, the effective rubber bushing is not that thick.

One other thought, if you do have failing bushings, adding the airbags will only mask the problem as far as stability goes. I personally don't like airbags unless the suspension is good to begin with. I do agree that the airbags stiffen the springs - it's what it's meant to do when you're hauling heavy loads in the rear.

[Pathfinder2002]

Everyone,
I'm having the same problem with my 2002 Pathfinder with 143,000 miles on the it.
So reading about the death sway I've decided to do reisearch.

You can buy a set with new arms for $147.00 from ebay. That's a great deal with no headache for cutting and pressing in bushing out.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Trailing-C ... L0&vxp=mtr

Also since my Pathfinder only started to get the sway and the bushing are still ok, I've decided to go another route.
Adding Air-Lift Bag's. This set up does two things. Puts back a little stability back in the rear. Second will also help sagging springs. Every time I go camping and pack up the SUV the rear sag and the ride is firm with very unforgiving body impact with a full load. Now the SUV rides the correct high fullyloaded. The Air Lift Bags also makes adjustment for different loads. I love the ride now and I hit bumps without the loud crashing sounds coming from the rear.
Installing took about 2 hours max, and the total cost was $79 from amazon.

http://i.imgur.com/fvBu6w5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4mSgcHz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/41TJ4J2.jpg

I'm don't wish to argue with your solution, but rather would like to give my opinion if that's ok.

You mention you're experiencing the "death sway" as caused by failing trailing-arm bushings, but you don't see any issue with your bushings. Are you sure? Again, I don't mean to offend you by questioning you, but just a visual may not do it. Also - did you check all 8 bushings, upper and lower trailing-arms? Check to see if the steel spacer (that is, where the bolt goes though) is separated from the rubber bushing. Sometimes the steel spacer which the bolt goes through will separate and thus not allow the bushing to do it's job of flexing and compressing when the truck's balance goes off (ie. the sway). Also check for cracks or pieces of rubber missing, tears in the rubber. If I recall, the effective rubber bushing is not that thick.

One other thought, if you do have failing bushings, adding the airbags will only mask the problem as far as stability goes. I personally don't like airbags unless the suspension is good to begin with. I do agree that the airbags stiffen the springs - it's what it's meant to do when you're hauling heavy loads in the rear.

Hey Donald,

You're correct it's masking the problem and the bushing are in the process of still failing. This is temporary solution and at some point soon, I"ll have the replace the bushing and bushing arms. Since I'm not a huge fan of pressing bushing in and out. I"ll end up buying the whole replacement set. Since driving the car after installing the air bags, the sway is lessen by 50%. I still notice the sway but I know now I can have 5 people in the car and not worry about rear end sag.

[Platinum04]

I would highly recommend using polyeurathane bushings. I first replaced the upper and lower control arms with factory replacements, guess what??? same problem in less time than a few months. My vehicle is a daily driver no off road mud bogging. I bought the kit online at 4x4 truck parts I believe, did all the work myself. That job was done about three years ago to this day no more deathsway. I am currently dealing with valve cover seals and all the components I will have to remove just to get to the valve covers.

[donald]

... I am currently dealing with valve cover seals and all the components I will have to remove just to get to the valve covers.

you may consider checking the power valve screws (aka butterfly plate screws) too.
i dont know off the top of my head if 04's are affected.

[JayTheGent]

Seems like there has been a surge in 'death sway' threads; I'd imagine a lot of our trucks are hitting the mileage where they need to be replaced.

What are you talking about? I'm only at 210k

Me every time I start my rig: