Non-Nissan help: slow coolant leak, NO dripping.

[MinisterofDOOM]

A friend of mine drives a later ('02) Saturn SC2. It has a handful of issues, none of which are critical. But one of them is odd.

It uses coolant. About 3/4 to 1 gallon every 2 months.

There's not one single drop of fluid on the driveway where the car sits. The concrete is perfectly clean.

It doesn't smoke.

The system appears to be holding pressure just fine because the temp gauge never reads even slightly high (although for all I know it's just a 3-position idiot light).

I'm assuming it's one of two things:
Either it's dripping onto the underbody cladding and then evaporating (very slow leak)
There's a gasket leak somewhere internally

I'm going to grab an oil sample for analysis when I do the next oil change here in the next couple weeks, so that may be helpful--or may not.

What the heck is going on?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Does it smell like coolant when its warmed up and driving? Some things such as pin hole leaks in radiators, slight leakage in hoses/fittings, or gasket leaks can happen under pressure/heat, but obviously don't leave a puddle on the ground. More often than not, you can smell them though.

Does it have that dexcool s*** in there?

[Bubba1]

My guess it's a gasket in it's early stages of failing. My ol '02 Altima had the same symptom (consumed coolant) without smoking, and no visible leaks. It eventually worsened and started to smoke. Since my car had other annoying issues, (sounds like that Saturn a bit), I had decided to throw in the towel and sell it before the head gasket blew.. Despite no longer being in production, that Saturn is not going to be a collectible. And since that much consumption is not a good sign, I would advise replacing the car.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Does it smell like coolant when its warmed up and driving?

Ahh, that's the other detail I meant to add. It never smells like coolant, even a bit. I know even minor coolant leaks I've experienced on other cars smell pretty strongly once up to operating temp, but this one has no signs of that.

It probably ran DexCool when new (its an early 2000s GM product, which is right in the window for that), but there's likely none of that left. It's been slowly topped off a bit at a time with cheap generic stuff and plain ol' Prestone every few weeks over the last year or so, so it's probably fairly well flushed as far as coolant (if not the sludge the coolant created). I guess it might be worth a drain-and-fill to at least clean things up in the meantime, but it cools just fine despite using coolant.

I also have no idea who the original owner was or what they did with it, including any possible coolant system flushes, etc. before my friend bout the car.

My guess it's a gasket in it's early stages of failing.

That's what I've been thinking.

The car is definitely in need of replacement and that's on the horizon, but I want to keep it running until that happens.

[centralcoaster33]

I think I heard on Car Talk with Click and Clack that a car had a coolant leak in the cabin (heater core) that didn't show it's face until using defrost and it would get coolant vapors all up on the windsheild... I suppose you would smell coolant inside in that situation. The firewall carpet stuff was holding it like a tampon is how I visuallized it. Getting an oil sample seems pretty legit. Slow leaks through pin holes don't seem like they'd equal a gallon a month, even with long, regular commutes. Plus, I'd expect to see drippings in parking spots after a hot commute if the leak was external. Of course you guys are real moderators and mechanics, so I'm just curious and will look back to see if you figure it out in the next few weeks. Good luck!

[MinisterofDOOM]

Interesting! She has mentioned that the car sometimes fogs up and gets condensation on the inside of the glass. I didn't put those two together, especially since the sunroof doesn't always close correctly--I just assumed leaky weather seals somewhere. It still doesn't smell like coolant inside, but it's something to look at for sure.

Thanks!

[Bubba1]

That's what I've been thinking.

The car is definitely in need of replacement and that's on the horizon, but I want to keep it running until that happens.

I think a bigger question is whether the rest of the car is good enough to warrant a significant repair like that. The longer that coolant consumption goes unrepaired, the higher the risk of more serious (pronounced "expensive") problems. You mentioned the car has other issues, so I presume that a head gasket job will not be the end of its problems. I recognize there could be an emotional attachment between the owner and the car, but at some point it's time to cut losses. And it's probably better to replace the car now while it's still runs okay, doesn't smoke, and has a current inspection sticker (assuming it's registered in a state w/inspections) than after the head gasket blows when It effectively becomes a parts car and worth much less.

[Jesda]

Heater core theory is interesting. My 92 Seville STS did that until it finally got replaced.

[OriginalWheelman]

SR20 fits. Just sayin.

[frapjap]

That happened ages ago with my first 240. Riiiiight before the head gasket failed.

However, the heater core might be worth exploring- thats a lot less invasive and expensive.

[Kompresshun]

It sounds like a head gasket to me too. I'd do a compression test and an oil analysis. The heater core is possible but I'd lean towards the head gasket.

Unless you're doing the job for her though, it's probably not worth having the head gasket replaced. Heck even doing it yourself isn't really that cheap when you factor in gaskets, fluids, machine work, and parts.

[frapjap]

It sounds like a head gasket to me too. I'd do a compression test and an oil analysis. The heater core is possible but I'd lean towards the head gasket.

Unless you're doing the job for her though, it's probably not worth having the head gasket replaced. Heck even doing it yourself isn't really that cheap when you factor in gaskets, fluids, machine work, and parts broken bolts, extractors, beer after beer after beer after beer, pizza, new tools.

Yeah, f*** that job on that car.

[Kompresshun]

f*** that job on most cars in general. I'm about $600 into a cylinder head job on the Dodge right now and I still have more crap to buy. Cylinder head repair in general just sucks.

[Jesda]

Add a tube of bars leak power (NOT THE SILVER CRAP) to the cooling system. Run it for an hour or two, give it some revs and turn on the heat to circulate it, then flush and fill with fresh coolant. That should keep it going for years.

The powder is basically ground ginger, harmless and at one time offered by GM as an OEM part.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Or crack a few eggs in there.

Head gasket jobs really aren't that bad on the little I4s. Its when you start dealing with those V8s (in trucks, so your damn back hurts ALL THE TIME), and H4s and all those god damn timing belts and chains and s*** they become a hassle.

[Jesda]

Easiest HG job is in a Northstar Cadillac because you do it with the engine removed.


Problem is removing the engine which has to come out of the bottom.

[numbnuts240]

broken bolts, extractors, beer after beer after beer after beer, pizza, new tools.

oh yeah, i have to do an oil change and tire rotation this weekend. better cancel the plans with the woman

[MinisterofDOOM]

Yeah, I'm not expecting to do headwork on it; she doesn't want to spend any more money on the car. I'm basically just trying to keep it alive as long as possible to prolong the dire need of replacement.

Add a tube of bars leak power (NOT THE SILVER CRAP) to the cooling system. Run it for an hour or two, give it some revs and turn on the heat to circulate it, then flush and fill with fresh coolant. That should keep it going for years.

The powder is basically ground ginger, harmless and at one time offered by GM as an OEM part.

Awesome. I will give this a try. That's basically what I was looking for: a low-cost way to buy some time.
I take it you mean use the Power Steering stuff rather than the stuff that's supposedly specifically for the cooling system?

broken bolts, extractors, beer after beer after beer after beer, pizza, new tools.

oh yeah, i have to do an oil change and tire rotation this weekend. better cancel the plans with the woman

Funny, my plans for the weekend include an oil change and tire rotation on a car FOR a lady friend in exchange for beer. (Different car...some kia that has a horn that sounds like a dying rat.) Just takes a bit of reordering and that list fits together nicely. Just hoping to leave out the extractors and broken bolts in this case.

[Jesda]

Awesome. I will give this a try. That's basically what I was looking for: a low-cost way to buy some time.
I take it you mean use the Power Steering stuff rather than the stuff that's supposedly specifically for the cooling system?

Comes in powder or tablet form. Both work fine.




Wal-Mart has it as do most Cadillac dealers.

Somehow it manages to plug small leaks (it's useless on large leaks or cracks) without clogging the system. How that's possible is beyond me. The magic of ground ginger root.

[Bubba1]

that's interesting that Caddy dealers stock that stuff. To me it seems a cheapie way to avoid doing a proper diagnosis and repair, but then again we're talking about GM. I'd only suggest using that stuff if you're getting rid of the car.

[nissangirl74]

that's interesting that Caddy dealers stock that stuff. To me it seems a cheapie way to avoid doing a proper diagnosis and repair, but then again we're talking about GM. I'd only suggest using that stuff if you're getting rid of the car.

I would say, "Just go shopping" ---THAT DAY--- but I know that isn't always possible. I'd be looking like crazy though, even if it is another beater but in better mechanical condition. You do not want to tackle that HG and if it fails, you're stuck with very ugly yard art.

[Jesda]

that's interesting that Caddy dealers stock that stuff. To me it seems a cheapie way to avoid doing a proper diagnosis and repair, but then again we're talking about GM. I'd only suggest using that stuff if you're getting rid of the car.

Used it in my Q45 to seal up a small, annoying leak in the plenum valley. Worked wonders.


Don't knock it until you've tried it.

[Bubba1]

I have used that sealer stuff before, (in an old Buick of all things), but only because I was in the process of selling the car.

[centralcoaster33]

Any updates MoD?

[MinisterofDOOM]

Her mom decided to just take the car to a shop. They replaced the radiator and negative battery cable (at least, I think that's what they did; auto shops are a$$ when talking to women and don't explain things well). I haven't had a chance to check on the car since then, but I'd be surprised if that fixed it; a bad radiator causing significant fluid loss would drip when parked or spray in the enginebay, and neither ever happened. I need to look the next time I see the car and make sure it's not still using fluid.