Well, this is a new one for me. No tail lights or dash lights are working, and when I depress the brake pedal, the dash lights up (albeit dimly) and the clock lights dim?? The brake lights work, as well as the turn signal. The stop lamp fuse appears fine.

I suspect that with these symptoms the problem is a switch or link somewhere and that I'm not the first guy to experience this one. SO, any insight would be very much appreciated.

Chris

Chris,

Good to see you found your way back.

Wish I could help you.

Didn't replace any bulbs with non-OEM, did you? How's the output from the voltage regulator?

Brian,

Yes, I was lost. But now have found my way to the new site. I went on vacation for a few weeks at the end of July, and when I returned they had shut down the old site. I have browsed the new one on occasion, but have been pretty busy lately. I am certainly miffed that we can't search the old site, which had years of useful info!!

In any event, I have a little more info on my problem. It does appear that the 10A ILL fuse is blown, which is wired to the rear side marker lamps, license lamps, as well as the stop and tail lamp sensors.

So, my course of action will be to check those bulbs first. Then move onto the stop and tail lamp sensors. Does anyone know exactly where in the trunk these are located??????

Chris

As always in life, nothing is ever easy. The license lamps are fine. However, I can't figure out how to access the rear side marker lamps? These are the red lights on the lower rear quarter panels (T19 and T30 on the rear harness layout on EL 160). I have taken apart the trunk, and there isn't access to these side markers? Does anyone know if they just pop out or something? I damn sure don't want to break one trying this course of action.

Chris

My tail lights and dash lights went out before. All it was is a fuse. Look in your fuse box on inside the car. I can't remember the name of the fuse off the top of my head, but it's one of the the fuses that face up and down on the left.( I think the 2nd one up off the top of my head). Also clean the connection under you bulbs in the tail lights, I get build up on mine all the time. Sorry for the vauge description on which fuse it was, but I'm sure you'll find it. Hope this helps

csoluri92Q wrote:As always in life, nothing is ever easy. The license lamps are fine. However, I can't figure out how to access the rear side marker lamps? These are the red lights on the lower rear quarter panels (T19 and T30 on the rear harness layout on EL 160). I have taken apart the trunk, and there isn't access to these side markers? Does anyone know if they just pop out or something? I damn sure don't want to break one trying this course of action.

Chris

The rear side marker lamps are removed by very carefully prying the assembly out (I usually cover a screwdriver with a cloth and pray before trying this... fronts are accessed from behind by removing the splash guards in the wheel well.

Before you do this, check for melted lead tips on the brake bulbs and any sign of scorching or corrosion in the sockets. If you find some, replace the socket assemblies for about $15 each. Use of non-OEM bulbs will sometimes pull more current, and apparently the sockets can't handle it. Dennis has mentioned that Sylvania LL bulbs may be a good aftermarket option.

This is a VERY common problem - I think it's dangerous as hell since the driver sees a "brake lamp inoperative" message for a few seconds, and then "OK" after the fuse blows... then you won't know about the problem until you park the car and try to get it out of park and back into drive... I sent some stuff to NHTSA about it, but no response. I guess getting rear ended isn't serious enough for a recall.

Another brake lamp problem I had was a brake lamp switch that went bad in the open position. No brake lamps... If you hear a "pop" in your radio occasionally when you first tap the brakes, it's a sure sign you'll need to replace the switch. This didn't take out a fuse in my case - so I think your problem is probably the sockets.

Heath

I knew the ILL 10A fuse was blown, but that usually means there is a problem somewhere else? I figured out that the side marker lights actually pop out, and the bulbs were fine. So I tried simply replacing the fuse, and it immediately blew out again.

So there is a problem somewhere else, most likely in either the stop lamp switch or the stop/tail lamp sensor? Has anyone ever had a problem with either of these?? I found the stop/tail lamp sensor in the trunk, but I have no idea where the stop lamp switch is located (somewhere under the dash it appears)????

Chris

Heath,

Thanks for the notes. It appears we were posting at the same time. Interesting problem with the stop lamp switch. I do have brake lights, but I do hear a click when I tap the brakes. And, like a I mentioned, the clock lights dim at the same time the dash board light come on slightly. It sounds like that could be my problem.

Exactly How did you access the stop lamp switch under the dash???? And is there a test for the switch? Thanks!!

Chris

After further study, analysis, and educated guesswork, I am now leaning toward the stop/tail lamp sensor in the trunk as the problem. Since I still have brake lights, it would appear that the stop lamp switch is still working. So, I decided to try and test the tail lamp sensor by removing one of the working brake lamps. This should have sent a "stop lamp inoperative" signal to the dash, but nothing happened and it still reads OK.

So, do you guys think the stop/tail lamp sensor is the likely problem or is there something else involved? :thinker

I've never had a bad sensor, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'd call Joe or Tom (anywhere that sells a lot of Q parts) and see how many they sell - that tends to give you an idea of how reliable the parts are...

You can test the brake lamp switch with a volt meter - just test for 12V when the pedal is pressed down. One wire should show 12V all the time, the other only with the pedal down. I agree with you though, that your problem probably isn't that. You have to remove the cover under the steering column to get to it... just follow the brake pedal up. There are actually two switches - one for the brake pedal, and one for the CC, so you'll have to use the manual to check for which is which.

The clicking you hear may be the shift lock mechanism. You might try pulling that control module out of the loop and see what changes - same for the brake lamp sensor. Do you have a service manual? The color codes for various wires and the very detailed schematics are helpful when chasing this type of problem. Did you replace that fuse? If so did everything work normally until it blew again? If so I'd go get a handful of fuses and keep unplugging different things one at a time until the problem stops - that'll help isolate your problem.

Heath

For those that are interested, the cause of the problem turned out to be one of those damn 1157 bulbs that had melted its tips in one of the tail light socket assemblies. I don't know how I missed it at first. I know, I know, I should have checked all of them FIRST since I am not the first idiot to have this issue. I'm still baffled by the fact that my brake lights still worked, but the short was causing my tail & license lights to fail with the ILL fuse. It appears the brake lights have some redundant power sources from both the ILL fuse and the STOP LAMP fuse to make sure you still have brake lights! Who was I kidding thinking I could use my BSEE to figure out the problem by studying and debugging those wiring diagrams in the service manual!!!

That's interesting. When I had the short circuit I lost everything. Do you have any aftermarket accessories that could be bridging the two circuits? In any case I'd go ahead and replace the socket assemblies before it happens again. Never seen one that you could correct just by replacing the bulb. Socket assemblies from Joe, Tom, etc. should run $15 or less each. That includes everything that snaps in to the housing, so it's a very easy plug-n-play type thing. Takes about three minutes each.

Heath