No start on the 87 200SX SEV6

[3nissans]

Fellas:3nissans? Well, actually, 2 and some. The latest addition 87 200SX SEV6 isn’t running and I need help from all Nissan techies and gurus out there. I inherited this car (for free). Heck! I figured, can’t beat a free car. Specially one small car with a V6. I figured it’ll be a screamer, once I get it running. The PO had it in his garage, he claims for about a couple of years and just now got rid of it because he bought a new SUV and needs the garage space. Enough of the history.The car won’t start. Cranks all day long (until battery dies) but won’t start. Here’s what I’ve done so far:- Checked for spark. Kind-a weak, but it’s there.- Fuel pump comes on and it puts out 32 psi during cranking. I measured it just before the rail. I’m not sure if that pressure is within specs.- Next, also while cranking, I checked for signal to the injectors with a noid light. Well, actually I only tested the front two which are the easiest ones to get to. No signal there. I’m wondering if I did that test right.- I got a known working ECU from the boneyard. Junkyard guy claims it came off a known running car. Same part number and all. I guess ECU for the 87 200sx is only applicable to an 87 200sx. Hooked it up (battery disconnected). No luck there either. I tried the self diagnosis and one time it showed 44 and then when I tried it again, it showed a 41. What’s up?- Finally, I went to the auto parts store and got a can of starting fluid. Sprayed some through the throttle valve. Car sputters and then ran for about a couple of seconds. Maybe I didn’t spray enough starting fluid. Did it again with a wee bit more starting fluid. Same result.

Thanks in advance for all replies and offers of help. I’m almost at wits end.Denny

[NISTECH]

your problem is clearly lack of fuel as you have no injector pulse and the starting fluid trys to bring it to life. all three injectors on each bank fire at the same time so checking one from both sides is sufficent as you did. check the larger of the 2 wires going to any one injector with a volt meter. the ignition switch must be in the on position when you do it. you should have 12volts there. if you dont you need to check the EGI relay in the relay box under the hood. it may also be labeled ECCS. it should be blue in color when you pull it out have the key in the on position and use you volt meter to test for 2 powers and at least one ground in the circuit. the ground will have somewhere between 13 and 16 ohms resistance. make sure you use a digital volt meter as it will have the impedance needed when working on computer controled items. I am assuming here you checked all your fuses first.

The fuel pressure is a bit low it should be around 36 psi 41 psi with the vaccum line off the regulator.But at this point thats not the problem.

Also I would like to note your a lucky guy I would take an SE 200SX that year in a heart beat for free, I also thought about gettin ahold of one and twin turboing it.

[NISTECH]

welcome to NICO btw.

[3nissans]

NIstech:Thank you much for the reply. Sorry, forgot to mention that I did check the fuses. You assumed right.It's kind-a late to fiddle with the car now, but I'll check for 12v to the injector the first chance I get. More than likely, tomorrow after work. Now, this relay you're talking about, I don't remember finding a blue relay under the hood, driver side, behind the air filter housing & washer reservoir. Is that the right location? I'll look again to make sure. Thanks again for the reply and thanks for the welcome aboard.Denny

[3nissans]

Well, I went ahead and checked for 12v to the injector. And it's there. And you're right, there is a blue relay in there. Do I still need to check the relay? What would be my next step? Thanks again.Denny

[NISTECH]

your relay is not the issue as it just supplies power to the injector which you have comfirmed.

your injector circuit is not grounding when the engine is cranking , the ECM controls the ground circuit on the injector using the signal from the distributor crank angle sensor. what you need to do now is with your volt meter hooked up to the power supply to the distributor crank angle sensor (hopefully you have a wiring diagram for this car as I dont have one available. If you dont you can find the wire by simply unplugging the 4 wire connector at the end of the pig tail coming off the dist,turning the car on and check for power to it, when you find the power wire , turn the car off reconnect the connector back probe the power wire you found with you volt meter and crank the car, watch your voltage on the meter while its cranking it should not drop below battery voltage available, meaning if at your battery you have 10.6 volts while cranking you should have the same available at that wire. If the voltage is drastically lower then you have a problem with the relay supplying that circuit. I have seen this numourous times on mid 90's VG engines. if your voltage is still available the diagnosis becomes a bit more difficult here. If you get to this point do yourself a favor and check your noid light on one of your other nissans to be sure it is working properly, I cant tell you how many times a bad peice of diagnostic equipment has bit me in the ***.

post your results when you have them. and if you get frustrated with the car let me know too I'll take it..lol

Scott

[3nissans]

Scott:Thanks for the reply. I did as you have instructed. BTW, I'm still somewhat on a learning curve when it comes to electricity/electronics, so please bear with me. I took volt readings from the crank angle sensor connector. 12.18V (blk/wht), 5.03V (grn/yel), 5.02V(grn/blk), 31mV (blk). I assumed 12.18 is the one I'm after. Batt V during cranking: 10.77, blk/white wire to CAS: 10.65.I tried my noid light on the other car and it worked.Just for the heck of it, I took readings again on the injector connector. Something's definitely amiss here. I got battery volts from both terminals, either with the ignition on or off.Also, the pigtail coming off the distributor has got different color wires than what is called for on the wiring diagram. The wires on the connector are right. Wrong distributor/CAS? Like I said, I'm not much of an electrician, so I'm attaching a copy of the wiring diagram from Mitchell's (from the public library). I really do appreciate your help. Hey, if I do decide to get rid of the car, you'll be the first on the list. But, I'm calculating that I'm about a thousand miles away.Thanks again.Denny
Modified by 3nissans at 7:59 PM 3/24/2005

[NISTECH]

ok first dont worry about the wire colors on the pig tail that is normal. because the manufacturer of the distributor just supplies the unit to nissan and nissan wired the car for what ever they had set up in it, sometimes the wires are different colors in the pigtail between 2 of the same yr and model car.

you are correct the 12.18v wire was the hot I wanted you to check and its ok, now the other two that had aroung 5 volts is your 180 and 360 degree signals from the sensor. while the car is cranking those numbers should change from 0 to 5 volts very rapidly. To see what kind of signal they are giving you really need a digital oscilliscope [which is expensive, at least for the DIYer.] now the other was your ground and that number is a little high not terribly but still shouldnt be more then 20mv you have some grounds on either side of your plentium check to make sure they are all tight then recheck that ground wire with the key on.

now for the injectors if you checked them with the injector plugged in you will see 12volts on both sides of the injector as the voltage is going through the windings of the injector coil but it is not being used since there is no ground on the circuit. but if the voltage is there with it un plugged from the injector on both sides you definitly have a problem in your wiring likely worst case could be a fried ecm,I would only go there as a last resort.

[3nissans]

12v on both wires with the connector unplugged. By ECM, you mean the ECU, right? So, I got 2 bad ECU's possibly. The one that was in the car and the one I got from the boneyard. What would be the most logical next step on my trouble shooting? Thanks Scott.Denny

[NISTECH]

disconnect the ecm connector and recheck for the voltage you should still have voltage to the injector connector at least on one side. if its the ecm suppying the voltage the other side should be dead now. if not then you have a short to power somewhere in your wires.

out of curiosity,Do you know if the injector campaign was ever done to this car?

[3nissans]

THanks Scott.I have no idea as far as the injector campaign goes. The PO I got it from was at least the 2nd owner. He got the car in 94, I believe. So, what's the injector campaign? I'm curious.Tomorrow, I'll check on the injector with the ECM unplugged. Really appreciate the help.Denny

[NISTECH]

The injector campiagn began in 1995 so he would have been the one to take it in for the work. What the campaign was for is to replace the injectors to prevent them from leaking fuel into the spark plug wells and catching the engine on fire. There are 2 easy ways to tell if its been done, one is by looking at the fuel hose clamps that connect the fuel rail to the fuel pressure regulator the clamps used should not be phillips screw type clamps they should be squeez type clamps [no screws] another way is to look at the harnesses going to the injectors on the stem that goes to the front injector on both sides there should be 2 wide colored bands [peices of tape] about 4 inches from the injector. These harnesses is where my advice is going to lead you if they are there. as they could be shorted together where they crimp into the engine harness.

[3nissans]

That's a no on the injection campaign.Now, I unplugged the ECU and took readings on the injector connector (unplugged). Got battery voltage on the bigger (red) wire, and on the other 60mV on the left bank and 30mV on the right. Same results whether ignition is on or off. Thanks. I think, with your help, I'll get through this whole ordeal, and get the 200SX on the road. Denny

[NISTECH]

sounds like you got a bad ECU then. Before you go and replace it you need to check all your injectors resistances. and make sure none are shorted(0 ohms resistance) this would cause the injector to fry the injector circuit in the ecm.

Give me your vin number so I can run it on DCS and see if it lists your car as still being eligable for the recall.

[3nissans]

VIN: JN1VS26S7HW009908BTW, after I posted yesterday, I decided to disconnect the harness going to all 3 injectors and took a reading from there. This is with the ECU connected back up. Not sure if this is gonna throw a curve ball on our troubleshooting. I only got battery voltage from the red wire and nothing from the other 3, which is what we want, right? On the left bank though, there are five wires on the connector. Can't find what the extra wire is for on the drawing. It's wht/blk.Happy Easter!Denny

Modified by 3nissans at 9:20 AM 3/27/2005
Modified by 3nissans at 9:20 AM 3/27/2005

[NISTECH]

the ecu is not your problem, I suspect your campaign has been done then as they use only one or the injector feed to feed all three injectors on each bank instead of three individual leads to the ecu. I cant run your vin till tomorrow as nissans dcs shuts down on sunday. What connector are you refferring to on the left bank?

[3nissans]

The connector that feeds to the harness for injectors 1,3,5. (Hope I didn't have my bank designations all wrong.) 5 wires: red(hot), wht(#1), wht/red(#3), wht/grn(#5) and a wht/blk(?). The one on the right, 4 wires: red, yel(#2), wht/blu(#4), and wht/blk(#6).Thanks for the quick turn around on responses, Scott. Nice to know there are still guys out there willing to help.Denny

[NISTECH]

I will have to pull out the factory service manual tomorrow if I get a chance and see what it is. And I will run your vin tomorrow morning and see if your still up for the recall.

[NISTECH]

your car is still up for 2 recalls, the fuel injector recall and the seat belt recall have not been done yet. Now when we were doing these recalls hot and heavy nissan had a policy the car had to be runnin when it came in. Now that some time has passed that rule has become somewhat lax. My suggestion would be to cal your local dealer and tell them you need to have the recalls done. Let them know the current situation with the car and that you would like to tow it to them and have the recall done. The recall costs you nothing , now the tow will be on you as nissan does not offer coverage for that.

[3nissans]

Scott:This is how I read your response: having the recall done will solve the problem that I'm having right now and there is no other alternative. Please advise if I'm mistaken. Towing's no big deal but, before I can do that, I better get the car registered and insured. Many Thanks!Denny

[NISTECH]

no sir i am not saying it will solve your problem. but they will be replacing components involved with were your problem is and they may inadvertantly fix your problem. Also I pulled out the service manual today on your car and looked at the connector in the diagram I think your talking about. I faound no black w/white tracer wire in it. Typically though the color wire is a power source for computer controlled components. use your volt meter and see if its power. try to trace it to its component.

[3nissans]

Thanks Scott.

[NISTECH]

Did you ever get this resolved?

[3nissans]

Scott:it has been a while since I peeked in the forum. About this 200 sx, I still have it but I didn't touch it the whole summer. I finally got it started today after I dropped the fuel tank and replaced the fuel pump. It's not running right though. It idles ok (900 rpm), but when you rev it, it kind-a-chokes and sputter and I'm almost positive that it misfires. I'll try to pull all the plugs out. Looks like a PITA specially the ones on the driver side. Also, at about 2k rpm, the engine hunts pretty bad. BTW, sorry I didn't reply to your last post. I think I really got frustrated with trying to get this car running. Had an enjoyable summer instead. Thanks, and it's nice to visit the forum again.Denny
Modified by 3nissans at 8:46 PM 9/27/2005