No power

[youngmanvr4]

I've done about 10 hours of searching and asking so far but still cant figure it out. I bought a 90 shell 240 and put a DOHC in it. The engine for the last owner of the engine had lots of power. But for me I have none. I'm not sure but he might of taken out the spark plugs and put different plugs in for some reason. They might be gap wrong. But I dont know why he would do that. I'm going to buy new plugs and wires. And see if that does it. Then if it dosn't fix the problem then I'm going to get a new dist. cap and rotor. If that doesn't work I'll try cleaning the MAF. If that doesn't work what should I do?

The guy I bought the engine from gave me a different ECU then what he was using before becuase it had a PROM chip...we wanted to keep the EROM for his SR swap. So I'm pretty sure this is a different ECU then he was using. Do you think their is a chance that its a bad ECU?

The type stuff I'm having is alittle lower then it should be idle and sometimes rough. The power...well their isn't any. WOT and I can do the 1/4 mile and get up to 59 mph. Thats a 0-59 in like 25 seconds lol. It smells rich but I dont have a exhuast system on yet. Just OBX headers. So thats why it smells so rich. It also backfires when I down shift.

To elimate some of the problems the engine was working awesome for the last owner. So that elimates the problem of have bad rings and headgasket. And since it worked great and had lots of power for him the injectors should be doing ok. Under they can go wack in like 3 weeks. So that should norrow it down some.

The problem should be either something on the shell car or something that the last owner of the engine wasn't using, such as the ECU, spark plugs, it could be the vacuum lines I dont have hooked up right but I think everything is done right. Other then that I cant come up with anything. If anyone can help that would be awesome. Thanks, Nate

[DjPantsSpecR]

well, did you mess with the cam timing, how bout the distributor timing

check the resistence across the injectors if you even question them, its as simple as pulling plug wire off. its very possible for an injector to die out of no where

no CELs? does it have the correct coolant temp sensor, is the TPS adjusted correctly, it should be tipped almost all the way to the firewall. can you hear any vacuum leaks? is the ECU somehow stuck in limpmode? compression, timing light?

could be like a million things, but it should be either cam timing of ingnition timing, it also depends on if it sounds funny while its running. its possible the EGR is stuck wide open or something similar.

my car soundsedunny after i start it up on hot starts sometimes, but not anymore. it would sound really loopy at idle and when you floored it you got like no power. i've no idea why it would do this, and then suddenly correct during a WOT run. it has to either be a IACV problem, and EGR problem, maybe a PAIR thing, or a knock sensor thing.

i know you posted in a gang of places, but have you tried asking NISTECH in the nissan online mechanic forum? otherwise i can helpa little, but i gotta pull a transmission a get down on some turkey

happy thanksgiving

[youngmanvr4]

I copied this over to Nissan Tech forum on here.

I have messed with distributor timimg but it didn't seem to help.

I'm almost 100% sure the TPS adjusted correctly.

I dont hear any vacuum lines leaks.

I'm sorry but CEL mean Check Engine Light right? If so then I dont have a CEL on.

It has the right coolant temp sensor as far as I know. Its the one that came on the engine.

The last onwer of the engine didn't even have the EGR hooked up some how. Their should be a vacuum line that goes to the top of the EGR valve right? I dont have that on there.

I dont have AIV. The vacuum lines that go to it from under the TB are blocked of.

About cheching the injectors. All I do is just unplug one plug and watch what? Then plug that one back in and unplug another and what? Do this to all 4 until what?

Does this help any?

[Touchdown038]

Here we go...

Pull your plugs and check the gap with a tester. Should be .044 IIRC.

Check your timing with a light. Stock should be at deg. BTDC.

Test your fuel pressure while at idle and while revving. Should be 34psi at idle and 43psi close to redline.

Get a vacuum gauge and check that the vacuum is steady and within spec (don't have it on hand, sorry)

Check for corrosion around the sensors, especially the coolant temp sensor.

Finally, get a spray bottle and (lightly) spray any areas where you could have a vacuum leak. Don't spray around any electrical areas, obviously.

Try at least a couple of these things.

EDIT: The EGR has a vacuum line on the top that goes into the bottom of the BPT valve, if this is disconnected it could cause a loss of power, get some fuel hose and connect them.

[youngmanvr4]

Here we go...

Pull your plugs and check the gap with a tester. Should be .044 IIRC.

Check your timing with a light. Stock should be at deg. BTDC.

Test your fuel pressure while at idle and while revving. Should be 34psi at idle and 43psi close to redline.

Get a vacuum gauge and check that the vacuum is steady and within spec (don't have it on hand, sorry)

Check for corrosion around the sensors, especially the coolant temp sensor.

Finally, get a spray bottle and (lightly) spray any areas where you could have a vacuum leak. Don't spray around any electrical areas, obviously.

Try at least a couple of these things.

EDIT: The EGR has a vacuum line on the top that goes into the bottom of the BPT valve, if this is disconnected it could cause a loss of power, get some fuel hose and connect them.

I have a high compression engine. Should the plugs still be gapped to 0.44?

Also, I forgot to tell you I dont have a cooling problem. It feels really slow when the engine is cold or hot. It doesn't matter. It just doesn't have power. It also runs fine other then the lower idle speed. It doesn't seem to mis-fire or anything. It does seem alittle on the rich side. But then again I only have the header on right now. But still, it just doesn't have power.

[Touchdown038]

In this case you might wanna try a colder plug, or even a smaller gap.. I don't have any experience with that so you'll have to experiment (or look it up)... sorry man.

You might wanna test the compression to make sure everything's ok down below too.

[DjPantsSpecR]

yeah, i would also recommend pluging the EGR to eliminate any of that mess, but if the EGR were stuck open it would try to stall out as soon as you started coming to a stop

if it was a vacuum problem then it should start to stall out a little bit after you have come to a complete stop

but either of these cases are not guarenteed

i just adjusted the TPS in my project and now the responce is a lot better, its running less rich, and i found some power

i think you need to start with a compression test because everything sounds pretty good on your part, but maybe you're using old rings, or the walls were not honed, or it just wasnt broken in right, would also verify cam timing too

i wish i had a great solution right now, but someone will name it

[youngmanvr4]

Ok, I'll put the vacuum line from the EGR to BPT when I get home on sunday. Right now I'm 8 hours from my 240.

I'll take the plugs out and see what they're gapped to right now. Then I'll get new ones soon.

I'll make sure my Dist. timig is at 20.

I know it has new rings. When the guy rebuild the engine and put high compression pistons in he used new rings. I even have a pic of them before they went it. The engine has 8,000 miles of it. I'm not saying it doesn't have bad compression but thats the last thing it would be since just weeks ago it had the power to do burn outs and drift (the guy drifted with this engine).

I still might have a vacuum leak or dont have the vacuum lines hooked up right. But I dont think so...other the the EGR one that was never hooked up before.

I dont have any stalling problems. The only problem is power aka when I try to move. The engine should have 170hp and like 175 tq I'm guessing...right now it feels like about 55hp and 50tq. But no stalling problems, only power.

How do you adjust the TPS and how much do you know to adjust it?

With a HC engine what should the timing be? Does anyone know?

I'll also try cleaning the MAS with crab cleaner.
Modified by youngmanvr4 at 12:42 PM 11/25/2005

[Touchdown038]

Timing stock is 15, I wouldn't recommend much higher than that, 20 might be pushing it, but premium gas will probably make it ok.

What kind of plugs are you running? If not NGK you should pick up some of those, as the KAs are known to not like Bosch.

[DjPantsSpecR]

for a KAE its 15

for your KADE its 20

definately use those NGK's best 5 dollars you can spend.

the TPS has to 7mm bolts with philips screw holes. its a ***** to work on and its off the throttle body. if you loosen it and twist it from where it is you should be twisting the top twords the firewall. so the slot for the bolt to go in should only show a sliver showing, almost nothing at all

thats worth trying, but im pretty sure thats not your problem.

work with that EGR, and worst comes to worst plug it from the header

[youngmanvr4]

So even with high compression to go for 20?

I dont know what plugs I'm running right now. I havehaven't pulled them out yet. I'll do that the day I get home.

I'll do a compression and adjust the TPS last if nothing else works.

[youngmanvr4]

Ok heres a list of things I'm going to do/check when I get home. Tell me if you think theses could be the problem.

Connect EGR to BPT (vacuum line).

Gap spark plugs to 0.39. And check brand.

Check fuel pressure. It might be this though. The reason why is when I put the engine in I wanted to get all the old gas out of the car and put in new. We sorta hotwired the fuel pump to turn on with out the engine or the key to the "ON". Dont ask how we did it lol. Anywho before we could even pump gas the had to hit the fuel pump a couple of times before it would turn on. I could mean that the fuel pump is going bad and didn't want to turn on but we got it going but its not working 100% and we arn't getting the right amount of fuel/pressure. Just a thought.

Check for corrosion around sensors and hesness'.

Check how much vacuum I have. Also check one more time for leaks.

Set Dist. timing to 16-20. Still waiting for reply on what to set it too.

I'm not sure I have a vacuum line going to the fuel pressure reglator. So I'll check that. That could be the problem if theirs isn't one.

Check to make sure BPT has a vacuum inlet line. Also check to make sure the exhuast pressure line on BPT.

I'll check the injectors to make sure their ok.

Clean MAS with crab cleaner.

Now questions:

First you of you guys said this "Finally, get a spray bottle and (lightly) spray any areas where you could have a vacuum leak. Don't spray around any electrical areas, obviously." now what will I want to do this for? Like what do I look for when I spary where I could have a leak? Also spary it with what? Just water?

What should the specs be on vacuum lines?

Also I was reading the FSM and it says this. Under EGRC-BPT. "The EGRC-BPT valve monitors exuahst pressure to activate the diaghraghm, controlling throttle body vacuum applied to the EGR valve. In other words, recirulated exhuast gas is controlled in response to positioning of the EGR valve or engine operation". So if I read that right that mean you do need some backpressure for it to work right, right? Right now their is no backpressure (or not much at all) since I only have the header on meaning no backpressure. Now with other backpressure the BPT may not work right of fully right? So this could be some of the problem right? That is if I hook up the EGR to BPT vacuum line. So if I get my testpipe and cat-bat on their is a chance that could be the problem or some of it maybe.

What I'm going to do if all of this stuff doesn't work I'm going to get a new cap and rotor. If that doesn't work then compression test (I'll end up doing this sometime anyways. Just maybe not right way). If thats not the problem then I'll try adjusting the TPS. If that doesn't work the I'm not sure lol. I think I'd be stuck then.

Well thats all I can think of right now that I have questions for, or tell you what my plan of action is. Thanks Dj and TouchDown. With out you two I wouldn't be near this far. I hope I can get down to the bottom of this and get some power soon.

[Touchdown038]

Sounds like a deal man... the water spray is for checking for vacuum leaks. If you have a leak and you spray the area with water (or WD40) then that will temporary seal the leak (for about 10 sec) and make the engine run better... this usually just helps the idle but if the idle's fine it might not do much.

Also if you don't have it, you need a vacuum line on the fuel pressure regulator. If you don't have that, the fuel pressure could be way off and that might be why it's not getting full power. I would just get a vacuum line diagram and check to make sure all that should be hooked up are.

[DjPantsSpecR]

i almost feel stupid for not mentioning this further, but this almost sounds like it could be as simple as a clogged fuel filter.

and i would definately use 20 degrees btdc, but no more even though theoretically you could run + or - 2 degrees depending on what octane you got

i agree witht he vacuum line on the fuel pressure regulator, but i think you should also do something about that fuel filter and maybe even check for a dead injector, but at this point it doesnt sound like that

really sounds like a fueling issue

[youngmanvr4]

The idle is a little low (I dont have a tach yet so I cant give you the right number) and the idle is sometimes rough...but not all the time. If I rev it up alittle then let it sit it fixs the low and rough idle for about 10 secs or so...then I goes back down. I'm not sure what could make it do this.

About the fuel filter. When I put the engine in I put a new filter in. But the thing is I put the filter in then got all the old fuel that was in the car and smelt really bad out using the new filter. What I should of done and didn't think about it til later is use the old filter get the old fuel out then put the new filter in. Reasoning is their might be a chance a clogged the new filter by getting the old fuel out. I dont think so but its a change.

I might have a dead injector but all 4 we good 4 weeks ago in the old car. But it could happen. How is the best way to check for a dead injector?

I'm really thinking it might be the FPR vacuum line. As a matter of fact I hope thats the problem.

[DjPantsSpecR]

with the car off if you pull the injector plug off adn measure the resistance across the injector it should read 10-12 ohms

my car also had this same idle issue. i messed with the timing, but without using a timing light. then i let the tension off the throttle cable so the throttle body was fully closed. i adjusted the tps sensor then turned the idle screw up until i wasnt stalling out at lights. it idles a little high still though, at around 900

what i'm saying is, if its stable for a little, then it messes up this usually means a vacuum leak. i havent found mine, but i'm quite sure thats what you have here if thats the case. try plugging that IACV too and see what that does for you.

i hope you're running some nice new fuel now too, because bad fuel makes a huge difference

[youngmanvr4]

I'll check the injectors then since its easy to do.

I'm running 91 octane (the highest we have here). We pumped out all the old fuel then put new fuel in and pumped that out just to get anyone of the old fuel we might not of gotten before we started the engine for the first time. We didn't want to risk running crappy old fuel.

I was looking at the online FSM I have down loaded. I was looking under EC stuff. Under that I found the ECU fail-safe system. If their is a problem with the MAFS, TPS, engine coolant temp sensor or ignition switch then the ECU will either shut down or lower the amount going to the fuel injectors, IAVC-AAC valve or Malfunction indicator lamp. So I looked I read what effect happen if one of the 4 sensors go bad or something happens to them.

Under the MAFS it reads: "If the mass air flow sensor output voltage is below the specified value when the starter switch is being turned OFF, the ECM sensens an mass air flow sensor malfunction, the fuel injector operates without the mass air flow sensor signal. Although the mass air flow sensor is malfunctioning, it is possable to start and drive vehicle. But engine speed will not rise more than 2,400 rpm in order to inform the driver of fail-safe system operation while driving". I can start the car just fine and it revs above 2,400 I know that for sure. So that means its not the MAFS.

Next it reads Engine coolant temp sensor malfunction: "When the engine coolant temp sensor output voltage is below or above the specified value, the engine coolant temp is fixed at the preset value as follows - Start-40 (104) Running-80 (176)". My temp seems just fine. So I dont think thats the problem.

Next it reads Thorttle position sensor malfunction: "When the TPS output voltage is below or above the specified value, the throttle position is fixed at at a specified value. In this condition the ECM does not use the throttle position sensor output. The closed throttle position is decided by the mass air flow sensor, crankshaft position sensor output signals" Then it reads " Operation: While idling-Driving condition: low engine speed. Operation: While acceleration-Driving condition: Poor acceleration". So that mean if I'm not getting the right signal from TPS I'll just the signs I'm getting. Low engine speed at idle and poor acceleration. So Dj you might be right on it being the TPS. Then I'll I'd have to do is adjust is by pushing the top of it to the firewall just so the slot for the bolt to go in should only show a sliver showing, almost nothing at all? I'll still going to check the fuel stuff but it just might be the TPS as the FSM says.

[DjPantsSpecR]

yep thats exactly where the factory position is, at least on my two s13s, but still, adjusting the tps seems like a band-aid of sorts. still maybe your unit doesnt work at all

coolant temp sensor problems can not be diagnosed from temperature alone. the temp your gauge sees is from a different sensor, i believe called the thermal transmitter. so if this is a bad or wrong unit it will run rich as hell. i ve seen adn helped fix a lot of problems with the red coolant temp sensor.

ive heard of MAF problems that arent as extreme as the 2400rpm rev limiter. i would count out the maf, but its entirely possible that it is. look here last if anything

[youngmanvr4]

Ok well I'm heading home in a couple of minutes. So I'll be able to work on the car alittle tonight. Any more advice on stuff it might be or anything?

[DjPantsSpecR]

over the entire course of this thread we covered pretty much everything, and we've pretty much figured out its fueling issue, but we dont know what its caused by. i think we have a huge list of thingsthe bpt to egr valvevacuum leaktps sensorcoolant temp sensor (almost guarenteed to get a good amount of corrosion, and sometimes the pins on the connector need to be pushed together to make a better connection)possibly no vacuum line on the fuel pressure regulatorsomehow a bad, brand new filter

this is also kinda out there, but on my coupe sometimes when i fired it up it would sound really loopy even when reving. it sounded very similar to a dead injector. there was absolutely no power, although it didnt shake really bad or anything or jerk or stall, just had no power. However, when i went to wideopen throttle it would struggle and struggle, and then finally something woul get enough vacuum to break free adn it would take off.

i've read in the fsm that the IACV operates when you turn the key to on, and then for five seconds when you crank the car on. so i wondered if mine would be stuck shut or open so i plugged it adn the problem didnt happen again for months, and it only happened once and hasn't since. i honestly dont know why it happened again or if its all coincidence, but thats a long shot for ya, maybe the hose isnt even connected to your IACV, and it wont run right because of all the extra unmetered air...

again still just a long shot, but i'm diggin deep here

[mackdaddy240]

Sorry I took so long to get back to you, I've been so busy with everything, plus I've been tryin to get my sr20 to run right with ever second of free time I have, which is running nicely finally, besides the idle control problem

But about the ka, the plugs are already a little colder then stock and they're pretty new so I know its not the plugs, and the wires were working fine, but they're not that great had a problem with pulling them apart a few times, but they should still be good. MAF, TPS, Coolent temp should all be good unless they were damaged when installing. You didnt drop the maf? check the voltage on the signal wire should be under 3 volts I believe.The egr does not need any vacume lines ran to it, I pluged it off so its non functional.But honestly it sound like the timing is retarded. Check the timing, advance it a little above stock if you can get some good gas it helps a lot. The backfireing has a lot to do with you running open header, it should calm down when you get the rest of the exhaust and get some back pressure. Just do like they said, check the fuel pressure, make sure all the cylinders are firing correctly. Good luck let me know how it goes.

[youngmanvr4]

Well we were heading home from Colorado and 250 miles from home when we hit white out conditions. The snow was coming down so hard and fast and the wind of 45 mph and gusts of 60+ mph you couldn't see 5 feet in front of you. Thank God I wasn't driving. So we pull into the next town (at the time was 50 miles away when we hit the white out conditions) driving 15-20 mph for 50 miles. It wasn't fun. Now we stuck in St. France, Ks. We pulled in at about 5 yesterday becuase of the storm and yet today its the same. Still white outs. All highways a closed and the police wont let you leave the town. All other towns are close to. You cant go anywhere. So were hoping we can take off tomorrow but were still not sure. So anywho I wasnt able to work on the car lol. Oh well. I get to work on it tomorrow or wednesday.

Thanks Justin for you input. Do you think I could have a bad fuel pump? What do you think I should set the timimg too? We tried adjusting the distributor all the way one way and all the way the other and it didn't make that much of a differance. Not at all really. Now it could have been going one way could have retarted it to much and still made it slow. Then the other way so to much advanced it make the knock sensor go off and then retarted it. But I did mess with timing and it didn't help. So I mean it might not be that. Anything else you could think of? Do you think I could have a vacuum leak? Like something in the back of the engine like BPT, EGR, FPR ect.?

[youngmanvr4]

Well good news and bad news.

Good news is I got home finally. Two days later then hoped for but oh well.

We got home about 5:30 and it gets dark by like 5 here. So we unloaded the stuff then by 6 I pop'd the hood. I got a flash light and started looking for stuff. First I look at the coolant temp sensor. It had just alittle bit (not much IMO) corrosion on it. Also had just alittle in the plug on the harness. Not much though. But I cleaned it alittle. I haven't driven it after this.

I then looked at the TPS (didn't adjust though) and the screw on the top one had alittle bit of silver showing. Maybe alittle more then it should be. Not sure though.

I then went to the bad of the engine to check out things there. As Justin (mackdaddy) said the EGR is blocked off. Though you can see that from out side. The BTP valve is removed, the EGR and canister control solenold valve is removed, the S.C.V. control solenold seem to be removed...I couldn't see it anyways, the solenold bracket is removed and the Swirl control valve is removed. The only thing still there is the EGR valve. Thats all. I looked the 4 vacuum lines that go to the stuff back there and they are all pluged and I dont think have a vacuum leak (they were pluged when Justin had the engine).

I haven't checked the timimg, injectors or fuel pressure yet but we know its on the vacuum lines. I checked all the other vacuum lines and everything was either pluged or was conected that I could see. I looked at everyone on the FSM.

So its either bad timimg which I've already messed with alittle, bad injector(s), or low fuel pressure wtich would mean bad fuel pump I think right? I dont think its cam timing becuase it was fine for Justin. The TPS might be alittle off but its the same place that it was for Justin unless it got bumped when he removed it. I know it didn't get bumped when I put it in. I never dropped the MAF so I know it should be damaged. Though it might be dirty...but I dont think thats the problem. I checked some of the wires and they didn't seem to have any problems. Though I do remember when I put the engine in and started and drove it for the first time, I wiggled the MAF alittle and it did something funny with the idle then went back to normal or how it was. I cant really remember much other the that for the MAF bumpage lol. I hope this helps alittle. Now that I'm home I can pretty much try anything or chek anything you guys say.

[dickie]

dont get too upset over it, maybe as a stress reliever you can remember that another ka can be had for cheap. if that doesnt relieve any pressure remember your other car is a freakin vr-4.

[youngmanvr4]

Haha true lol...but vr-4s dont slide that good lol.

[youngmanvr4]

Well I dont know if its good or bad. First I tested the injectors. All 4 showed 0.010 ohms. So that means all 4 injectors are good. Next I tested the fuel pressure. At idle it showed high. It showed 42 at idle and 41-43 at higher rpm and it would go down to about 39 at deaccleration. So how what? I still need to work on the timimg but it doesn't seem like a timimg problem IMO. I pulled the MAF harness and cleaned the connections on the MAF. I wiggled it somemore it it idled rough when I did. I still dont know whats wrong. Help guys. I'll check anything you need to know.

[youngmanvr4]

Where'd you guys go?

[mackdaddy240]

Hmm, Well Try checking the spark from the coil, if thats good check the spark from each wire, if those are good check the timing with a timing light? Other than that I cant really think of anything off the top of my head, If you cant figure it out, are there any good mechanics around? have a professional take a look at it.

[youngmanvr4]

So do you think the coil might be bad? If it was bad would it be giving me the problems I am? I have another coil (I might have two of them) around. I think they're good.

[DjPantsSpecR]

go back and do the other things we discussed, there is the largest diagnostic list ive seen in a good while here...

in other words, other than what we've discussed, we're kinda stumped...