No low end power

[DammitBobby]

JWT ECU 72lbs programT3/T4 50 trim .63 AR turbine.Stock timing 20 degrees (checked it with timing light no TPS).Enging rebuilt with AMS basic and ARP hardware.Plugs BKR7E-11 gapped 26.Blaster SS coil and NGK wires.Unorthodox pulley91 cams-20 vacuum at idle.Compression 145 to 150 across all cylinders.WOT AFR`s around low 12 to 11.5

I replaced my Knock sensor this morning because of the Code 34 kept coming up. Thinking that was the reason the car had no low end power. I cleared the codes and reset learning mode. Started the car let it idle then drove it around a little bit no error codes. Problem still remains I have no low end power. Last week I took off the valve cover here is a picture of the cams at TDC.







Is it possible to have the dizzy off one tooth even though the timing is showing -20 degrees? The reason I asked because I also had code 11 show up which indicates Crank Position Sensor. Code 11 has not shown back up since clearing error codes.

Anybody have any other ideas? I hate it that I lost to a freakin turbo Miata that only runs a low 14 sec 1/4 mile:(

Modified by DammitBobby at 6:33 PM 5/6/2007

Modified by DammitBobby at 7:04 PM 5/7/2007

Modified by DammitBobby at 7:10 PM 5/7/2007

Modified by DammitBobby at 7:12 PM 5/7/2007

Modified by DammitBobby at 7:01 AM 5/8/2007

Modified by DammitBobby at 6:40 PM 5/12/2007
Modified by DammitBobby at 7:13 PM 5/21/2007

[gaehrings13]

I have that same code too. Isn't that the sensor thats on top of the transmission. My friend that owns a mechanic shop said it was the distributor. I changed it and checked the timing and still have the error.

I think its standalone time! If I had the bucks I would do a megasquirt but im so broke now after doing the transmission swap.

The timing on your cams look perfect also.

[DammitBobby]

S13 the CPS is located in the distributor. I think the S14 it is located on the transmission.

Zeitronix Datalog a couple of WOT and AFR`s are around 12. I can`t think of anything else to check.

[DammitBobby]

Ok I checked my timing marks on the crank pulley by using a coat hanger and removing spark plug from cylinder 1. I marked the coat hanger every 5 degrees starting at 20 degrees and the coat hanger moved up until top dead center and it stopped. Checking my timing mark on my crank and the coat hanger both showed top dead center. So I also checked the rotor button location on stock timing 20 degrees. I took a picture and this is what you see my sharpie pointing to 20 degrees on the crank pulley and rotor button pointing to number one cylinder. I have determine that I have installed the timing chain and cams correctly. I also decided to take the timing light and check it again at a different angle since I have a Unorthodox pulley that is 2 inches away from the timing mark. It appears that the timing was off by 6 to 7 degrees. I advanced it and it improved the bottom end performance. I am going to advance the timing another 2 degrees and monitor the knock on the SAFCII. I also noticed that I was having around 90 knocks before replacing the sensor and since replacing the sensor only getting 19 knocks. I think I will test run my friends Miata turbo this weekend and see what it will do.



Modified by DammitBobby at 11:01 PM 5/9/2007
Modified by DammitBobby at 11:06 PM 5/9/2007

[Florida240sx]

Going to ask how much of no low end power... I drove aorund for 2 months even up to nopi atl with my cams wrong. Both were off one tooth and had my engine rebuilt by a guy.. At 8psi I had 160hp and 191tq... fixed my cams and the fun began....

[DammitBobby]

If you look at the picture above you would think that the 20 degree mark the distributor button should be pointing at dead center of plug number one but it appears to be off by at least 20 more degrees. It would be nice to compare a picture with someones engine that runs good to get a comparison. My theory is if the timing is set to 20 degrees with timing light the distributor button and the crank timing should match perfectly.

Florida240sxSince the new engine rebuild I replaced my stock tires with Kumhos. In first gear it would not spin the tires unless I dumped the clutch at 3.5k no tire spinning in any other gear. Last night after readjusting my timing I dumped the clutch at 3k and spinned the tires I think it was spinning in second gear as well. Bad road but didn`t have much time last night to drive around and do more testing. It seemed like it would take around 3 seconds before the car would start pulling hard and it had to be in the 4.5k to 5k range before it would do anything. Now it appears to be more responsive. I am going to do a test run against my friends Miata turbo that runs 14.2 quarter mile. Last week I could not pull away from a roll 2 different times. With all the mods I should have pulled away from him easily. I think I will take a video this weekend and you tell me what you think.
Modified by DammitBobby at 7:17 AM 5/10/2007

[Florida240sx]

My car in 1st gear from a stop.....Slow roll and then punching it....at 3k the tires break loose.What does top end feel like?Wait a minute.... car is sounding like mine. Timing was on but both cams were off one tooth... You said your crank pulley is off a few degrees right??? You set your cams without knowing this right? Got your old pulley? Match it up to the new one.Make your mark and see what the cams look like....

[Florida240sx]

I drove around for 34 months with my cams messed up, raced A SS camaro, 350z, gt mustang, sr 240, etc... My car had low end power but no top end.. Started messing with my cams and reversed it. Messed with the other one and what a power difference... Any dyno's around you that you are friends with. Maybe let you do just one pull to see for diagnostic purpose and then come back at a later date for real #'s.. http://media.putfile.com/KAT92 acceleration vidhttp://media.putfile.com/kat-burn I enjoy this for some reason

[DammitBobby]

Well you can see from the picture the cam alignment looks correct. That was taken with the pulley TDC mark aligned with the UR pulley. Of course it is hard to get exact on that pulley because it is several inches from the timing mark. I was hoping someone could take a picture of their distributor rotor button pointing dead center of the number one plug and show me the location on the pulley 20 degrees. Another words take the same picture I took in the last picture to give me a reference.

[Florida240sx]

http://www.nicoclub.com/articles.php?id=161707

[DammitBobby]

Yes I have read that article several times. The picture of the timing mark and distributor alignment does not match the one I have posted in this thread. Yet when I use the timing gun it shows 20 degrees stock timing. Does your setup match the article you posted?

[Florida240sx]

I always did like that.... Even with this motor I just put in... Rotated engine to TDC according to mark. Then put rotor in until it was on #1 plug.... Hmm Alabama... not too far away.....

[DammitBobby]

Hmm, I cannot figure out why then the timing light tells me it is at 20 degrees and the distributor could be off a tooth? The car cranks up fine and runs fine just not much power at low end. Is it possible that the distributor is off one tooth? I always thought that if you are off one tooth the car would not crank up? I guess I need to reinstall the stock pulley and double check my timing again. I also wonder if it is possible that I am one tooth off on my bottom chain?
Modified by DammitBobby at 2:06 PM 5/11/2007

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I was always under the assumption that the markings on your cam sprockets (assuming they are stock cams) were supposed to be around the 10 and 2 O clock positions when cyl 1 was at TDC on compression stroke. Also, the lobes should be facing exactly opposite each other, and should be pretty parallel to the ground at TDC compression stroke. Hope that made sense.Like this: (NOTE, this is 180 out, so cyl 4 is TDC compression stroke)^ Note the cams are in backwards in that pic (exhaust is on intake, and intake is on exhaust), but still, the dowels are ligned up the way they should be.It looks to me like your cams are off. (Or mine are off)

[Florida240sx]

Make sure thye are facing opposite. Make it where the point of eahc lobe is split by the head and where the valve cover would rest....

[1995240sxSE]

I got a question now. When doing the dizzy do u set it to 20 or tdctick all the way right or 2nd from left. same with cams 0 or 20? This could be some of my issues as well!!!

[DammitBobby]

Ok I edit the first post and added a picture showing cam lope position. This was taken TDC on the same day.

[DammitBobby]

Actually it makes more sense if the distributor rotor buton is pointing to cylinder one at 20 degrees rather then TDC.
Modified by DammitBobby at 7:47 AM 5/13/2007

[Chezedik]

If you have 20 in Hg, then I would look at something else besides timing. Do you have any more codes? What about a mechanical problem like brakes locking up or turbo problems? How about a boost leak?

[DammitBobby]

Well that is what I thought but Florida240SX said he had good vacuum and idle but both of his cams were off. I checked my cams and TDC it appears to be correct. The only thing that looks different is that my rotor buton does not point at number one plug at TDC. I was hoping someone could double check and see if there rotor buton is pointing like mine or at TDC.

I am hoping someone will double check for me the rotor buton location If not I think the next step is to remove my UR pulley and put the stocker back on to make sure I have the timing set right. I will pull the spark plug and drop the coat hanger to make sure it lines up with TDC on the crank. Going to borrow another timing light just to make sure it reads the same.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I seriously doubt you are a tooth off. When I was a tooth off, I would have to throw the dizzy completely one way (complete CW or complete CCW) to get it to even run, and if it did come close to on time, the dizzy was so far rotated it wouldn't be able to be bolted down.I can confirm that the rotor should be pointing at the #1 cyl wire at TDC on compression stroke. Put the dizzy in like that, and time it from there.

[Chezedik]

You checked dizzy timing with a light? B/C Dizzy timing can hide cam timing vacuum issues. But still you look good. Just make sure that #1TDC you have either lobe pointing directly at each other or directly apart from each other (depending on which stroke you are on).

[Florida240sx]

Just thinking of a curve ball to throw at ya... Got the plug wires on your dizzy correct? 1-2-4-3

[Florida240sx]

mine is the same as what it pictured in that thread

[Chezedik]

How about this: Did you cofirm the timing marks on the crank pulley with the actual engine timing. I know ASP had a few that came out with exaggerated marks.

[DammitBobby]

Yes I have it wired right because the Distributor cap and plug wires are labeled 1,2,3,4.

mine is the same as what it pictured in that thread

Explain more please?

[DammitBobby]

You checked dizzy timing with a light? B/C Dizzy timing can hide cam timing vacuum issues. But still you look good.

Yes I checked the timing with a timing light and it is timed to 20 degrees.

Just make sure that #1TDC you have either lobe pointing directly at each other or directly apart from each other (depending on which stroke you are on).

The picture in this thread shows #1TDC cam position and distributor rotor button position.

B/C Dizzy timing can hide cam timing vacuum issues.

Can you explain more please?

[DammitBobby]

How about this: Did you cofirm the timing marks on the crank pulley with the actual engine timing. I know ASP had a few that came out with exaggerated marks.

Yes I did that by using a coat hanger taking out spark plug number 1 and slowly turning the crank starting at 20 degrees 20 15 10 5 0 -5 at each mark on the pulley the coat hanger went up until at TDC where it stop going up then at -5 it went down. So yea I think I have confirmed that issue.

[Chezedik]

Actually, it is 20, 15, 10, 5 (BTDC) 0 = TDC, 5 ATDC, did you maybe try to time it the other way, maybe check rotation direction while checking timing. That might throw a dizzy code if you were quite a bit off.

[DammitBobby]

Yea typo error should have been +5. I guess if I have time this weekend I will throw the old pulley on and see what happens.

Can anybody look at a data log from Nissan Data port. I have it in a spread sheet to see if they can see anything that does not look in spec?