NKorea sentences 2 US journalists to 12 years jail - Update - Released

[480sx]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._held

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8088601.stm

This freaken guy. The ultimate display of little man syndrome.

[ScrapMetal]

Any word on what the U.S. is going to do about this? I mean, they are U.S. citizens, something has to be done and quickly. I read they are reporters for Gore's Current TV which I actually enjoy on YouTube.

[klewis486]

Two words: Navy SEALs

[AZhitman]

So, Mr. President... What's the word?

What's more important? The lives of these two Americans, or another damn photo op?

[themadscientist]

He won't do anything. No balls, no pride. I think it will be more interesting to watch the vice president's actions on this. No, not botox Biden, former VP Al Gore. See, these two ladies work for him and he appears to be doing diddly squat on their behalf.



http://www.nowpublic.com/world...korea

[4cefed]

"But but... what about our image in North Korea?..."

[C-Kwik]

Two words: Navy SEALs

Right, because a team of our guys are superhuman enough to take on a reasonably well-trained army in a country where we have relatively little intel and likely very few internal contacts.

So, Mr. President... What's the word?

What's more important? The lives of these two Americans, or another damn photo op?

Given the circumstances with N Korea's Nuclear capabilities, it might be wise to stay quiet. Demanding their release might send the message that they have something we want back.

I think it will be more interesting to watch the vice president's actions on this. No, not botox Biden, former VP Al Gore. See, these two ladies work for him and he appears to be doing diddly squat on their behalf.

As with above, it might be better to give the impression that Gore has no say in this. Of course, he simply may not have any influence in it, but the last think N Korea needs to believe is that there is a politician with influence seeking the release of the reporters. It becomes a crutch in the bigger picture.

Now both scenarios are my own musings on the matter, but that said, if you still feel there needs to be more action, I might ask what you want to see happen?

[AZhitman]

Simple.

A flotilla of destroyers and carriers, with air support, amassed in full view of NK's beaches, with a simple demand:

We're sending a PT boat to so-and-so port. Either the journalists are delivered to the boat, unharmed, within the hour, or we start vaporizing s*** (starting with KJI's palace) until we run out of ordinance.

I'm no strategist, but the ugly psycho midget is undeserving of "diplomacy".

[C-Kwik]

So you're okay with the risk of a nuclear attack on a nearby country? Frankly, they could be bluffing, but I'm not sure I'd take such a flying leap approach. You might feel differently if your family was living within spitting distance of a nuclear country led by an eccentric lunatic who has been making threats...

Even still, outside of his own life (for which I'm certain he has taken steps to protect), do you think he cares about his people? He build nukes rather than find ways to feed his people and promote economic growth. He holds prisoners in labor camps merely for the fact that they were born into a family that is related to a person they consider a traitor (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03855.html).

Would the world be a better place without him? Absolutely. He can choke on it for all I care. But this is somewhat akin to a hostage situation. We can go in guns blazin and hope for the best and we would probably get him. The problem arises if all the hostages die in the process.

[AZhitman]

So you're okay with the risk of a nuclear attack on a nearby country? Frankly, they could be bluffing, but I'm not sure I'd take such a flying leap approach. You might feel differently if your family was living within spitting distance of a nuclear country led by an eccentric lunatic who has been making threats...

Even still, outside of his own life (for which I'm certain he has taken steps to protect), do you think he cares about his people? He build nukes rather than find ways to feed his people and promote economic growth. He holds prisoners in labor camps merely for the fact that they were born into a family that is related to a person they consider a traitor (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03855.html).

Would the world be a better place without him? Absolutely. He can choke on it for all I care. But this is somewhat akin to a hostage situation. We can go in guns blazin and hope for the best and we would probably get him. The problem arises if all the hostages die in the process.

I don't necessarily disagree, Chano... Putting myself in the position of the "hostages", I'd rather take a chance on friendly fire taking me (and my captors) out than to be held any longer than necessary by some whacko regime.

I'm sure Daniel Pearl would have preferred an incoming Patriot to some black-hooded crackpot's razor-sharp blade.

Sorry - I'm not one to let the threat of "what if" deter me from action, even in my own personal life. I'll weigh my options, and not act too rashly... but when the chips are down, in dealing with an unreasonable foe, I prefer action to diplomacy.

Cut off the head and the body will die. And last I checked, the body controls the arm, which controls the finger, which pushes the red button.

[C-Kwik]

I don't necessarily disagree, Chano... Putting myself in the position of the "hostages", I'd rather take a chance on friendly fire taking me (and my captors) out than to be held any longer than necessary by some whacko regime..

That might be what you want, but I think I'd take my chances at making it out alive without unnecessary risk of death if the option were available. Its certainly not off the table at this point.

I'm sure Daniel Pearl would have preferred an incoming Patriot to some black-hooded crackpot's razor-sharp blade. .

The situations are quite different. They are not under any immediate threat of death. And I doubt they will be...at least not at that hands of the government of N. Korea. While N Korea is making threats, they are likely empty. Not that I would bank on it, but it would be a huge risk on their part to kill these two reporters. Not to mention, they lose a big bargaining chip.

Sorry - I'm not one to let the threat of "what if" deter me from action, even in my own personal life. I'll weigh my options, and not act too rashly... but when the chips are down, in dealing with an unreasonable foe, I prefer action to diplomacy.

Your statement here seems rather contradictory to itself. Knocking on someone's door with guns drawn and ready to fire would seem rash considering we haven't explored all the other options yet. And weighing options is asking the what ifs.

Cut off the head and the body will die. And last I checked, the body controls the arm, which controls the finger, which pushes the red button.

That analogy always bothered me. For one, we are not dealing with a life form, we are dealing with a country. Who is to say, the person who picks up the reigns wouldn't be the same or perhaps even worse. Not sure what kind of intel we have on that, but information available to the public suggests that we're not even sure who the country will be handed off to at this point. One strong possibility is his youngest son who is reportedly just like his father.

[AZhitman]

All good and valid points. I was under the (possibly mistaken) impression that they were being used as some sort of pawns.

For some reason, this really reminded me of the Iranian hostage situation. Recall if you will which person is credited for their safe return:

A) Jimmy CarterB) Ronald Reagan

Perhaps I'm misperceiving this issue in the context of other recent "overseas traveler" scenarios.

[C-Kwik]

All good and valid points. I was under the (possibly mistaken) impression that they were being used as some sort of pawns.

My impression is they are, but perhaps not in the way that you think. I suspect their motivation to hold these two reporters is for a political bargaining chip, but I don't think their lives are at stake. At least not directly. If the accounts of the North Korean that escaped the prison camp I linked to is fairly accurate about conditions in the labor camps, then there is some risk, but I think it would prove to be in the best interests of N Korea to make sure they remain unharmed.

That said, the idea that these reporters were spying seems far-fetched. Frankly, it would seem to me that if it were true, then more information from the "trial" would have been released...perhaps allowing someone to sit-in and allow for full disclosure of the events in the trial.

For some reason, this really reminded me of the Iranian hostage situation. Recall if you will which person is credited for their safe return:

A) Jimmy CarterB) Ronald Reagan

Depends on who you ask. But given their release right after Reagan's inauguration, it would seem unlikely that Reagan had any direct influence.

Perhaps I'm misperceiving this issue in the context of other recent "overseas traveler" scenarios.

If you think they are ready to slit their throats unconditionally, then yeah.

[legit240sx]

+ 1 for a sackless prez who i very much don't like the man i laugh on how much people love the man....

[480sx]

Legit. Your posts in the political forum have all been useless trash. Stop it.

Im with C-Kwik on this one.

[HashiriyaS14]

Legit. Your posts in the political forum have all been useless trash. Stop it.

^^You're not allowed to do this. True or not, this is a personal attack. If you think a user is creating a problem, you tell one of us via email.

[audtatious]

They are being used as pawns somewhat but thus far are not in labor camps. They did break their laws and have stated so, FWIU.

[C-Kwik]

They are being released.

http://www.reuters.com/article...90804

[AZhitman]

Think KJI read my solution above and got worried?

After all, we ARE a bunch of reckless cowboys out here...

[C-Kwik]

LOL. Maybe. I suppose you could say that diplomacy can be given a nudge when the other option is much less desirable...

EDIT: Or he was intimidated by Bill Clinton towering over him...

[srellim234]

My guess is that Il figures he's scoring big points with his magnanimous gesture of releasing them. The fact that Clinton met with him, official U.S. visit or not, gives him credibility in his own mind and he realizes his chances of getting anything out of us that he can rip off from his people depends on starting to deal. He can't rip off anything else from his own people. There's nothing left.

[AZhitman]

I'd pay money to have seen ol' Bill just haul off and haymaker his little pompous a$$.

[Bubba1]

I'd pay money to have seen ol' Bill just haul off and haymaker his little pompous a$$.

I was glad to see diplomacy work for a change, but who knows what was given up to secure their release.

Okay, did anyone else here think for at least for a moment that Clinton's fly was down offering a protein snack to the two grateful women on that flight home....?

[480sx]

I strongly doubt much if anything was given up to NK for their release. Honestly, this could be as simple as Kim getting attention from the US, or a unilateral engagement from us at all.

I mean think if it from his perspective, he's got an X prez, now erm.. Mr Clinton, coming to his country talking to him 1 on 1. Hes historically been one to take what he can get and be happy for a while with it. After all, his nuclear program is still going strong, so whats he really got to be concerned with?