Nitrogen filled tires...

[prlwhitecoupe]

So at my last oil change, the dealership offered to fill my tires with nitrogen. Since they have the machine now for the GT-R they are selling this to customers. But be weary, don't buy into the "cool" factor. However, I think it is most beneficial for people living in colder climates because when winter comes around you won't have to worry about tire pressure. Also, it is supposed to give better fuel economy since your tires will always be properly inflated at all times no matter if they are cold or hot. My 2 cents.

[Rolling Estonian]

the whole nitrogen filled tires is BSthey don't add any benefit at any timeair is already 70% nitrogen

It's just another way for dealerships to suck a few more dollars out of people how don't know better

[Alt.ImaCoupe]

Using nitrogen also eliminates oxygen and humidity from the inside of your tire which are the main things that react with and degrade the rubber and metal respecitvely. Some people think this will make your tires last longer. My dealer added it at no extra cost, so I did it.

[adidas2go]

Yea, most places where you buy tires will fill with Nitrogen

[prlwhitecoupe]

http://www.zimbio.com/pilot?ZU...a%3D1

Nitrogen for Nissan’s sporty production cars

[ 02 Jun 2008, Rob Cockerill, gasworld.com ]

Nissan will be insisting upon use of nitrogen for the tyres on its new production vehicle.

The use of high purity nitrogen in the automotive arena is set to filter down from the racing world to public production cars when the sporty 2009 Nissan GT-R makes its US debut in June, with every car arriving in the country with nitrogen-filled tyres.

Each American-market vehicle comes equipped with Bridgestone RE070R high performance run-flat summer tyres, Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST run-flat summer tyres or Dunlop SP Sport 7010 A/S DSST run-flat all-season tyres, all exclusively developed for Nissan and the GT-R, which was first released in Japan in 2007.

The automaker says no Nissan dealership will be certified to sell a GT-R unless it can provide access to nitrogen, in order to maintain the tyres’ top factory-issue condition.

Nissan has selected the PurigeN98 high-purity nitrogen tyre inflation system as a recommended accompanying product and PurigeN98 President Robin Pearl commented on the increase in use of nitrogen, “Nitrogen is emerging as the latest consumer trend in the auto industry - especially for high-performance vehicles.”

“Nitrogen-filled tyres help maintain proper tyre pressure on all cars, which, in turn, helps improve fuel efficiency and reduce tyre wear. And, because nitrogen molecules are more stable than those of oxygen and contain no moisture, the gas doesn’t degrade the rubber or steel belts or leak through the walls of tyres as quickly. As a result, drivers can realise significant savings on both fuel and tyre replacement costs,” Pearl added.

With the stipulation that no Nissan dealership can sell a GT-R unless it provides access to nitrogen in mind, the company has selected the PurigeN98 high-purity nitrogen tyre inflation system from N2Revolution Inc. as its ‘recommended and approved service equipment’.

PurigeN98’s Pearl noted that the company’s line of equipment is guaranteed to deliver a minimum of 98% pure nitrogen, the same sort of high-purity gas used by NASCAR and IndyCar Series drivers in their tyres when racing.

He said, “We are extremely pleased that our system was selected to participate in Nissan’s Tech-Mate program as an authorised tool and equipment vendor for all its vehicles, including the new GT-R.”

High purity nitrogen has been endorsed by four-time NASCAR Sprint Cup Champion Jeff Gordon, who uses it in his personal cars, while both the Mario Andretti Racing School and Jeff Gordon Racing School have entered into exclusive agreements with N2Revolution to use PurigeN98 in the tyres of their race cars.

[Rolling Estonian]

look regardless of using air or nitrogen you should still be checking your tire pressure often and re-inflating.

I have never seen any proof that nitrogen filled tires hold their pressure better. It's just a theory, based on the fact the Nitrogen molecules are larger that oxygen therefore the probability of them diffusing through he tire is less.

And, because nitrogen molecules are more stable than those of oxygen and contain no moisture.

Im sorry that makes no sense whatsoever

[Stumpjumper]

If you want stable, unreactive molecules use an inert gas like Argon (I think it's one, been a while since I was in HS...even if I do use it for welding) :P

[Alt.ImaCoupe]

And, because nitrogen molecules are more stable than those of oxygen and contain no moisture,

Im sorry that makes no sense whatsoever

Actually it does make sense, the two nitrogren atoms in N2 are triple bonded whereas the two oxygen atoms in O2 are essentially double bonded because of the number of electrons in the outer orbits of the atoms. That makes nitrogen more stable.

Oxygen cause thing to oxidize, one form of which it rust, and therefore the issue with the rims. The science is solid on this one, whether it makes enough of a difference to justify the money is another question.

[Rolling Estonian]

ok. Alt.Ima makes a point.

But how many people are concened with the effect of Oxygen on the outside of your wheels and tires? that stuff is everywhere.

[Infantry1327]

i doubt any one is concered about how oxygen is treating the outside of there wheels, but nitrogen does have some added benefits. It is defenetly lighter as well as the reason listed above.

[prlwhitecoupe]

I just came back from the dealership and all their new stock has nitrogen filled tires.....something about 4% increase in mileage....no under inflation....and some other added benefits it mentioned....

[Alt.ImaCoupe]

ok. Alt.Ima makes a point.

But how many people are concened with the effect of Oxygen on the outside of your wheels and tires? that stuff is everywhere.

Well.. to take a step back I have to say I guess there isn't much point in worrying about the inside of the tires when you can't control the outside. Especially as they get blasted with salt and sand for 6 months of the year.

[Rolling Estonian]

I just came back from the dealership and all their new stock has nitrogen filled tires.....something about 4% increase in mileage....no under inflation....and some other added benefits it mentioned....

that 4% increase in mileage is for having the proper tire pressure, regardless of what the tire is filled with.

[prlwhitecoupe]

Great, well I'm glad I won't have worry about my tire pressure when the temperature starts plummeting soon.

2.5 check, Nitrogen check - savings at the gas station price-LESS!

[prlwhitecoupe]

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-b....html

Codiac RCMP to try nitrogen-filled car tiresLast Updated: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 | 4:19 PM ATCBC News

RCMP in the Moncton area are filling their car tires with nitrogen in an experiment designed to reduce gas consumption.

Chantal Farrah, spokeswoman for the Codiac RCMP, said the firm that maintains the detachment's vehicles is conducting a pilot project for the summer.

Twenty of the 38 vehicles in the Codiac RCMP detachment are sporting green valve caps on their tires to identify them as cars with the nitrogen-filled tires.

"They're going to decide if we've seen improvements with our gas consumption, and the wear and tear of our tires," Farrah said Wednesday.

Nitrogen has been used in race car, airplane and commercial truck tires for years, but it's only recently become available for passenger cars.

Ed McNeil, who runs one of the few shops in the Moncton area providing the gas for consumers, said more and more customers are asking for a nitrogen fill up.

"The idea of nitrogen is to keep the temperatures down and keep air pressure constant," McNeil said.

Nitrogen is less prone to leak from tires and cause the underinflation that increases fuel consumption. It also reacts less with metal wheels and the rubber in tires, extending their lifespan.

McNeil said the nitrogen-filled tires can improve fuel efficiency by as much as five per cent, but it costs $5 per tire to inflate them with nitrogen.

[jdshift]

I paid $20 bucks for the service which will provide the Nitrogen for the life of the tires which isn't bad.........but I have not noticed any improvements in mpg, they dropped as a matter of fact. I'll give it some more time to prove itself.

[marlin29311]

Using nitrogen also eliminates oxygen and humidity from the inside of your tire which are the main things that react with and degrade the rubber and metal respecitvely. Some people think this will make your tires last longer. My dealer added it at no extra cost, so I did it.

A good air compressor will remove humidity from the air you are compressing.

Its a lazy mod. It doesn't increase your gas mileage, air already has 70% nitrogen, and it's just another bs thing people are selling because they can. If you keep up with your car maintenence like you should, then you will never have an issue with anything. Hell, why don't we just throw helium in our tires to make them float....(this won't work....)

[Nate129]

You guys are forgetting one MAJOR positive of nitrogen...

Sure you need to keep an eye on your pressure, but do any of you who are making that point check your pressure first thing in the morning, then check it after the tire heats up (and pressure rises), and then again...and so on and so on?

N2 stays stable through temp changes, which is something no amount of maintenance or arguing will take care of.

[Rolling Estonian]

You guys are forgetting one MAJOR positive of nitrogen...

Sure you need to keep an eye on your pressure, but do any of you who are making that point check your pressure first thing in the morning, then check it after the tire heats up (and pressure rises), and then again...and so on and so on?

N2 stays stable through temp changes, which is something no amount of maintenance or arguing will take care of.

That's where the whole air is 78% Nitrogen thing comes in. because of this even a 20-30 degree drop in temp will not have a noticeable effect on the volume of your tires.

Planes use nitrogen because their tires see hundreds of degrees difference between the freezing sky and hot tarmac.

BOTTOM LINE - the benefits of Nitrogen are really not worth $5-10 for each tire. If you get it for free, then great, it sure won't hurt.

[Sentientbydesign]

Wow! You're really against this stuff huh?

I was too until the service advisor at Infiniti told me about it. Now you're probably thinking, yeah cuz he's trying to sell you something. Actually, their machine was down and they were not sure if they would be repairing it due to the high cost. So here's a guy with NOTHING TO GAIN telling me that he got an additional 2-3 MPG out of his F150.

The issue here is whether the 98%-99% Nitrogen is more thermally stable than air. I'm forced to believe it is based on the science behind it.

Also, you can't adjust the pressure of your tires while you're driving them. They will start out at a certain temp and psi, then will adjust as you drive them. Unless you want to invest in a Hummer style TPMS, I think this is a cheaper alternative.

[marlin29311]

The MPG gains blow my mind.

Lets say you have your air filled tires at the proper level of pressure before you start your car. As you are driving, the heat causes the pressure to rise, therefore expanding the tire slightly (in theory). Since your tire is now larger, but still at the same weight, you should technically get better gas mileage from this, simply because the same amount of energy exerted when the tire is smaller is now getting you a farther distance (1 revolution of the wheel now is longer, but still using the same amount of energy).

With nitrogen, that doesn't expand as much, you tires are always at the same pressure, not giving you the increased wheel size.

I mean, I'm not for or against anything. I just have a hard time believing that the type of gas used in my tires is affecting my gas mileage, provided that I keep up with my car maitnenence.

[Sentientbydesign]

The MPG gains blow my mind.

Lets say you have your air filled tires at the proper level of pressure before you start your car. As you are driving, the heat causes the pressure to rise, therefore expanding the tire slightly (in theory). Since your tire is now larger, but still at the same weight, you should technically get better gas mileage from this, simply because the same amount of energy exerted when the tire is smaller is now getting you a farther distance (1 revolution of the wheel now is longer, but still using the same amount of energy).

This only applies during steady velocity. At such point that acceleration is introduced, it can be argued, that the longer torque arm actually requires more power due to it's higher moment of inertia (should be negligible for 2-3 psi though).

[marlin29311]

Right...so how does a nitrogen filled tire get me better gas milege then?

[NYblkcoupe]

So its another scam by the Stealership than. What a surprise.

[Rolling Estonian]

just throwing this out there.

The single best way to improve fuel efficiency is to drive efficiently. This means keeping the revs low, below 3500RPM lets say. Not going faster than you need to, at 55-60 miles per hour you're probably past peak effieciency. And keeping that speed constant, accelerating (while being very fun) eats up gas.

Driving efficiently will do more than Nitrogen filled tires, grounding kits (not saying I regret owning a set at all ), low restriction air filter, and low restriction exaust kit put together.

While lots of these add ons help, they are also way over hyped.

[Sentientbydesign]

Right...so how does a nitrogen filled tire get me better gas milege then?

Because most of us don't have the time to check out tire pressure constantly. Think if Nitrogen as an automatic coffee maker or one of those toasters that monitors crust color (not one of the dielectric POSs).

I'm going to try it. If my service advisor had absolutely nothing to gain and probably won't in the future either (the Nitro machine was on temporary loan, now that it's broken, they'd have to pay for the machine and repairs), I have to believe there is some validity to his claims.

As for peak efficiency, there are sooooooo many variables in that equation. The two most important are Cd and the engine power curve, then gearing comes into play.

I hate when ANYBODY says that you should drive 55 because that is where you get the best fuel economy. Each and every vehicle is different. For a bus, that's probably not far from the truth. On my G, I would argue that it was closer to 70mph, though someone also said 90 got them better numbers than 80 did.

[BlackNWhite]

I get my best mileage at 70-75. The MPG bar hovers at 40-60+.

When I'm 60-65 the MPG bar is hovering in the 30's.

[JDRosenberg07]

Oxygen cause thing to oxidize, one form of which it rust, and therefore the issue with the rims. The science is solid on this one, whether it makes enough of a difference to justify the money is another question.

Ok first of all.. the air in your tires isnt going to rust your rims. if anything its gonna be the air outside the tire so filling it with nitrogen wont effect rusting.

Second, nitrogen isnt gonna improve your MPG's, and extra 20% nitrogen isnt going to do anything.

i doubt any one is concered about how oxygen is treating the outside of there wheels, but nitrogen does have some added benefits. It is defenetly lighter as well as the reason listed above.

Third, it doesnt matter if nitrogen is lighter or not. if you fill your tires to 30psi of air or 30psi of nitrogen, its still 30psi.

If you still think it will be lighter, ask yourself this... which is heavier? a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers? Ton being a literal ton = 2000lbs

They weigh the same when put together. sure one feather is lighter than one brick but when you have a ton of each they will weigh the same

[Alt.ImaCoupe]

Third, it doesnt matter if nitrogen is lighter or not. if you fill your tires to 30psi of air or 30psi of nitrogen, its still 30psi.

If you still think it will be lighter, ask yourself this... which is heavier? a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers? Ton being a literal ton = 2000lbs

But you don't fill your tires with a certain weight of something, you fill it with a certain volume (pressure being the same). By your logic, if I filled my tires with water they would be the same weight as the air or nitrogen. Not the case. A helium balloon floats in air because the helium is lighter than the air, same holds true here. The effect on your car is incredibly small because the difference in density between air and 99% N2 is so minimal. But the fact remains that an equal volume of nitrogen at an equal pressure IS lighter.

[Sentientbydesign]

Josh,

I'm not trying to be mean. I actually like you, but I think you're a little outside of your comfort zone here.

The pounds per square inch is just a flaw in our imperial system of measures. We use pounds as both a weight and force. It's a weight, but in the case of psi it's used as a force.

Technically, 30 psi of nitrogen should weigh less than 30 psi of air. The difference is very slight, but still exists.

As for fuel economy gains. I'll see when I switch.