Nitrogen and Fixed Tires

[Jacko3]

Hello Guys:

My right front driver side tire has been installed after a blowout last week Sunday. Whatever it is that caused my tires to blow out, came close to damaging the lip of my rim. Thank God, it was still good to go.

In addition, my dealership now has Nitrogen for the Gt-R. So, I decided to fill up my whole tires with pure Nitrogen for $39.99, at the dealership.

First of all, Nitrogen pins the car to the ground. No more shakiness or tendency to veer off from the lane. In fact, I went as far as driving 50 miles per hour without holding the steering wheel for about 3/4 of a mile. The car stayed straight and did not even attempt to veer off the road.

Nitrogen seems to help the tires absorb the nasty pot holes on the road much better than air. The car's handling is now exceptionally crisp and very focused. I feel that the responsiveness of my steering wheel is now close to the responsiveness of the steering wheel of a G-37 coupe. I literally zig zagged between lanes and the response was exact and accurate, which was unlike the response with air in the tires.

However, the Nitrogen seemed like it added a few pounds to the weight of the car---I am not sure. What baffles me is the sudden improved handling. Again, I wonder why Infiniti did not recommend filling our tires with Nitrogen.

My car's handling has improved tremendouosly simply by using Nitrogen. I would recommend it. to anyone who wants to be sure about their car's handling. It literally pins the car to the ground. I wil wait and see what it does to the thread life of my tires. By the way I use TOYO Proxes T1R tires---excellent tires. 245/35 in front and 275/35 at the rear.

I also strongly feel that using Nitrogen in the tires, maybe a more cost effective route to better handling than lowering the car with springs or coil overs. I feel, the car is low enough. My confidence level with these Nitrogen on any corner has dramatically improved. I am done with air, except when I feel the car should be lighter. Add a supercharger, and you have a car with exceptional handling and power to match.


Modified by Jacko3 at 3:01 PM 4/25/2008

[etschell]

this makes sense because nitrogen is more dense than regular air. also i think the dealer doesn't recommend it because it is A) expensive B) in most cases unnecessary.

[G_whizz]

My 07 G and my gf's new 2.5 Altima both came from the dealership with Nitrogen. This seems to be the norm now, there was even a lil ad sticker on the windshield too.

[Sentientbydesign]

this makes sense because nitrogen is more dense than regular air. also i think the dealer doesn't recommend it because it is A) expensive B) in most cases unnecessary.

How come I doubt that anyone can notice a 3-5% increase in tire inflation weight?

[C-Kwik]

How come I doubt that anyone can notice a 3-5% increase in tire inflation weight?

Is it even that much? A quick search reveals nitrogen gas is 1.225 kg/m^3 and dry air is 1.2506 kg/m^3. Couple that with the fact that air is about 80% nitrogen anyways, it would seem to me that the density difference would make up an exceptionally small difference in weight.

That said, the advantage to using nitrogen in a tire is simply that nitrogen is more stable at varying temperatures than the air in the atmosphere. Basically, pressures fluctuate less when tire temperatures change providing a more consistent pressure in varying situations. What I don't know is if that's due to the loss of water vapor or a trait of nitrogen itself. But for passenger cars, it's not going to exhibit a huge benefit. Except maybe that nitrogen molecules are bigger and may seep less over time. Which appears to be the angle these tire shops are using...

[Infiniti Chica]

One dealer states that: "With nitrogen tire inflation, improvements can be noted in a vehicle's handling, fuel efficiency and tire life through better tire pressure retention, improved fuel economy and cooler running tire temperatures." The thinking is that chemical #7 on the periodic table has larger molecules that prevent it from seeping out of a tire as quickly as air. So inflating tires with nearly pure nitrogen - which has been done for years in race cars, commercial airliners and long-distance trucks - allows them to retain correct pressure longer.

Keep in mind that such tire companies as Michelin don't see the value unless you're driving in what they term high risk settings (racing, heavy loads, extended trips). My thinking is that for the price of maintaining the nitrogen thru the life of each tire, you could buy a new set anyway.
Modified by Infiniti Chica at 5:57 PM 4/26/2008

[SVTCOBRA]

I thought the new G's on the local Infiniti lot all had valve caps with nitrogen printed on them.....must go investigate......a test drive might be necessary...

[Beancooker]

First off, don't pay $40. for nitrogen. If you really want it that badly, it's $10. at Costco.

Second, you do realize that the air you are breathing right now, is 75-78% nitrogen. All it does is keep the tires at the inflated pressure for a longer period of time. There is less than a 2psi change in pressure between two tires evenly inflated hot/cold, air/nitrogen.

Inflate both tires cold to 35 psi. One with nitrogen, one with ambient air. When hot, the nitrogen tire will be about 39psi and the air tire about 41psi.

A long as you check your tire pressure regularly (which you should, especially if you drive hard) nitrogen has no beneficial gains that I have yet to believe.

[zozoka1212]

I think it is standard here in Canada for infiniti.

zozo

[TurboDurbo]

[QUOTE=C-Kwik]

...nitrogen gas is 1.225 kg/m^3 and dry air is 1.2506 kg/m^3. Couple that with the fact that air is about 80% nitrogen anyways, ...QUOTE]



Nitrogen inflation is a scam in every aspect

[Raylo]

It was standard at my infiniti dealership. I argued to get the charge off the car and ended up paying their "cost" of $30 something. I check my cars tires about once a month (I know it should be more often) and think it is a gimmick. Unless you race your car or really flog your car on a constant basis I don't think you need it. When I check my tires I will inflate them with "normal" air.

[telcoman]

It was standard at my infiniti dealership. I argued to get the charge off the car and ended up paying their "cost" of $30 something. I check my cars tires about once a month (I know it should be more often) and think it is a gimmick. Unless you race your car or really flog your car on a constant basis I don't think you need it. When I check my tires I will inflate them with "normal" air.

Raylo and Jacko

Now there is a team

Did they try to sell you undercoating, pin stripes, and glass etching also?

There is a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

[TeflonG35]

Maybe not a scam. Just unnecessary in most of our driving lives. Depends how they push it.

No different then adding a wing to a honda. Yeah wings add downforce....but you have to be going pretty fast to benefit. Faster then anyone should feel safe driving a honda.

[Jacko3]

Telcoman:

[Jacko3]

I went to test the Nitrogen in my tires on my special and unbeleivable twisty 2 - 4 mile road/track early in the morning. As always, the road was as empty as can be---it was just me and the road. I wanted to make sure that the Nitrogen was not snake oil.

When I got to the scariest turn/twist, I decided to tempt fate a little---I pushed the car an extra 10 miles/hour beyond the 80 miles/hour I thought was safe. The car flew through the turn like nothing was there. I found myself shouting for joy in my car "NITROGEN----YOU ARE KING" as though i was a rodeo man.

I went through the circuit about twice to make sure I was not dreaming. Iobyained the same results. For the first time brake fluid, burning tire and brake pads were all smelling like hell. At that point, I knew I had really put my car through its paces.

I went back and did the circuit for a third time, but this time, at the normal 75 miles/hour, and I could have flown through that curve with my eyes closed while driving with my feet---all I am saying here is that it was so damn easy and no challenge at all at that speed, compared to when I used to go through that same circuit without the Nitrogen in my tires.

I am going to need another set of front brake pads pretty soon, and I think next time, I will be changing my brake fluid, as I felt it get a little mushy after this cicuit. Perhaps it was boiling and absorbing moisture when i was flogging it or perhaps, I may end up getting performance brake lines in the future.

All in all, I am convinced beyond any type of reason that Nitrogen is a better deal to the extent that everyone who owns a G-35, may never know the day and time and manner that they will push their car. And when that day comes, you better have Nitrogen in your tires for excellent and exceptional handling. The handling in the circuit was so exceptional, well beyond what I had anticipated.

However, if you never push your car, the, i would suggest sticking to regular air. Actually, Nitrogen makes daily driving too easy as it keeps the car highly centered on the road and while it dampens to a great extent every bump and pothole on the road.

Note: My car has a Rear Active Steer (RAS), and I use Toyou Proxes T1R tires.

[G_whizz]

Jacko you FAIL!!!!

For not posting video or even pictures of "said circuit"

[Jacko3]

G-Whizz:

I agree! . However, I need this circuit to remain a secret and pristine so that I can go out there without being hassled to test any mod or snake oil or whatever the mazines or aftermarket people claim.

I am actually trying to seek part-time or weekend employment as a test driver. I just enjoy punishing cars. being a test driver will make me extremely happy. I don't have the patience to be a real race driver, as i suspect my demons willmake me loose races because of some silly reasons

[Beancooker]

Jack, the "squishy" feeling is called brake fade. It happens when you heat the calipers to the point that the fluid inside starts to boil. When you change out your fluid, use ATE super blue brake fluid. It is a DOT 4 fluid, and works great. Don't get scammed into a DOT 5 synthetic. You WILL end up with leaks, and problems. DOT 5 is fully synthetic, and doesn't homogenize with water or DOT 3 or 4 fluid, which means you can end up with condensation in the calipers, and brake failure.

I had terrible brake fade in my Maxima, and between a set of Hawk HPS pads and the ATE fluid, it never came back.

I still think that the nitrogen didn't make any difference in the actual handling of your car. I think it did give you more confidence in driving it, which let you push it farther than you normally do. But if some extra expensive air in your tires lets you feel secure in pushing your car to do what it was already able to do, then it was worth every penny.

As far as brakes go, when you swap out the pads, look into getting some slotted rotors as well. Personally I say stay away from drilled rotors, as that they don't offer any better cooling, and are more prone to crack.

[Jacko3]

Beancooker:

Thanks. Great advice! I will be ordering the ATE Super blue brake fluid - DOT 4.

I wonder, can I always switch back to the OEM brake fluids, when I choose to do so, after using a this brake fluid?

However, I still feel the Nitrogen made a difference as far as the limits of my handling--the car feels more pinned down to the road and more predictable.

[Beancooker]

Yes you can. It is homogeneous with DOT 3 (stock). It is always best to flush it out if you switch back.

That's why I say NO DOT 5. The flushing process has to be done to the point of 100% old flushed out, and switching back is even more of a PITA.

[joe603]

+1 on doing DOT4...do the clutch fluid while your at it...

[audtatious]

Good article about nitrogen:

http://blogs.consumerreports.o....html

[Jacko3]

Beancooker:

Thanks for the excellent advice. Take care.

[Jacko3]

Joe603:

I will. Thanks.

[Jacko3]

audtatious:

Excellent article. I agree, Nitrogen or no Nitrogen, tire pressure should be checked regularly. What blows my mind about Nitrogen is the slight improvment in handling I observed. This may not be the case with all cars. But for the G-35 Coupe, it is certainly a plus.

[Minmey15]

+1 on doing DOT4...do the clutch fluid while your at it...

And maybe brake pads? G35 is a very heavy car, and especially downhill, its brake does fade quite bit. semi metal brake pads may help more.

[Sentientbydesign]

For real results, I'd do a blind test.

Get the dealership to randomly fill your tires without your knowledge, then go test your "circuit".

I think Jacko bought a GT-R instead of a G and wants us all to believe that we have EVO handling.

[Beancooker]

And maybe brake pads? G35 is a very heavy car, and especially downhill, its brake does fade quite bit. semi metal brake pads may help more.

Get Hawk HPS. They are a ferro-carbon, and work excellent.

I think Jacko bought a GT-R instead of a G and wants us all to believe that we have EVO handling.

WTF are you talking about?

[Minmey15]

Quote, originally posted by Sentientbydesign »

I think Jacko bought a GT-R instead of a G and wants us all to believe that we have EVO handling.

WTF are you talking about?

Because Jacko always says that G35 is an untimate handling machine that no other car can come close to.

Evo and GT-R, those two are ultimate handling machine, but I experience brake fade more than other cars on downhill due to its weight. Uphill, it was sweet!!

Jacko, you sounded like a very much experienced driver according to all your posts, but you have never experienced brake fade before?

[Sentientbydesign]

Yeah! What Minmey15 said.

I love my G and all, but it's never the type of machine that Jacko makes it out to be.

I think his "Little Nissan" is an 80s Sentra!!!