Nissan Pao meets Nissan Pulsar nx se A.K.A Paosar

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
Paogasm
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:31 pm
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar Nx Se 1.6
1989 Nissan Pao 1.2
Location: Glenavon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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The Project:
Take a CA motor and stuff it into a Pao

The Back Story: (Sorry for the novel, you can skip this)
I have a 1989 Nissan Pao that originally had the 987cc engine mated with a automatic transmission. I rather enjoyed my new ride as it was quirky to say the least, but felt that the power was.... well not there. SO I dug a little and found that the easiest way to put a little pep in her step was to install a ma12. Seemed rather easy as it was a direct fit.
I started my search and found a Nissan Micra with a ma12 and standard tranny, and started the swap. Now for the life of me I don't know why I didn't swap the transmissions out, and in hindsight I would probably have been satisfied with that build. But because I left the auto in it I still was rather disappointed with the end product. Don't get me wrong the 9hp increase was definitely a breath of fresh air, as I no longer needed to sweat when I tried merging onto a highway. Yet it was still lacking something. I probably should of just cut my losses and invested in something.... well with more power and was a bit more tuner friendly. But I just couldn't let go of that oh so unique Pao.

Thus started my next search, what has been and could be stuffed into this car. I found numerous amounts people who installed the very impressive MA09ERT into there cars. I WOULD LOVE to have this engine........ I would also love a plethora of parts for when it broke down, but being in Canada this was not a feasible option. Others have installed the CG13DE which would also be a good candidate if Nissan ever released it in Canada. As my search continued I was becoming very discouraged, then I came across someone who was in the process of a CA18DET engine swap into their K10. That is something I could get behind!! Now I know that Nissan did not release this engine in Canada, but it has gained such a following that is constantly being imported. The added bonus is that Nissan did release the Pulsar Nx Se which came with the CA16DE and the CA18DE in Canada. So off we go.....

I sourced out a 1987 Nissan Pulsar NX SE with not one but TWO CA18DET engines for $780.00 WOW!!! This was going to be a reality. The guy told me the car wasn't running because of a timing issue and was on its way to getting the transplant when interest weaned, I was so excited that I put my blinders on and focused only on getting this vehicle. I drove to the neighboring province on high hopes and no experience, to buy this sweet deal and start my project. I arrived to find that both the engines were in pieces (not a problem as I would have torn them apart anyways to rebuild them) And that the car was indeed not running. I installed my tow bar and headed home. Now with the project home and the blinders off I stared to realize what I'd done. Little did I know that Nissan released various versions of the CA18DET's and that I had received the dinosaur of the bunch. The first generation CA18DET with extra runners for low rpm, not a problem except the gaskets are extremely hard to find, so much so that I haven't found them.
But Back to the donor car, yes the oh so sweet Nissan Pulsar. I was so excited to have the complete car for my project, I mean I have everything I need to swap the engines over. As I said earlier Nissan released a 1.6L and a 1.8L engine for this car. This one had the 1.6L which I didn't think was a problem, until a friend of mine asked if the gearbox could handle the extra power of the CA18DET. So I searched.... and was not happy with what I found. Turns out the gearbox in the 1.6L the RS5F31A is a inferior gearbox, with common problems of 5th gear pop-out. Nissan did come out with a fix for it, a 5th gear pop out kit, where in my understanding brought the 5th gear closer. But everyone who has been involved with this gearbox has just sourced out the 1.8 gearbox the RS5F50 and installed it.

SOO I have a dinosaur of a turbo engine and a lemon of a gearbox. I am still hopeful I will find a RS5F50 gearbox, but haven't had any luck yet. which brings me to..

The Predicament:
This is where I would like your input.
Do I
1. Cut my losses and sell or burn the whole thing!!!
2. Get the Pulsar running and sell to someone else, and be happy I have a Pao.
3. Wait to see if I can source out a RS5F50 gearbox and gaskets for dinosaur head, or swap the dinosaur head with later ca18 model.
or
4. Install the CA16DE into the Pao

I don't want to give up on this project as I am determined to make this work. I want nothing more than to have the experience of stuffing a big engine into a small car. I just need a little guidance to where I should invest my time.
Thank you for reading and posting your comments, maybe together we can make this happen.


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mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

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In my experience with the Pulsars I would have to say just cut your losses. By far the easiest thing to do is take your time and wait for a worthwhile 1988 Pulsar to pop up for sale. The 31A gear box can hold a mild amount of power, but it's far from ideal if you want to make more power than a stock boost, stock turbo CA will afford. Plus, Spec makes the only aftermarket clutches for that transmission and they aren't that strong anyways.

As for the dinosaur motors, I would either sell them entirely, or part them out and keep the bits that are interchangeable. If the bottom ends are identical to the DETs most people get, then keep those for spares. Otherwise, just as with the 88 Pulsar, it'd be in your favor to find a complete late model CA18DET. It doesn't have to be running, but I say complete and assembled so you don't have to find out later you're missing some bracket you need or a few odd ball metric bolts you have to special order.

Paogasm
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:31 pm
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar Nx Se 1.6
1989 Nissan Pao 1.2
Location: Glenavon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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Thank you for the sobering advice. I will be honest as much as I did not want to hear that, I have been thinking that if I am going to do all that work to stuff an engine and gearbox in that it might as well be the right one. That being said I have been unlucky in finding a 1988 pulsar donor car.
You mentioned that the 31A gearbox could only handle a minimal amount of power. Is that because the whole gearbox is flawed, or is it just because of the fifth gear? Has anyone tried the update "pop out kit" on the gearbox and mate it to the ca18de(t) or have they just upgraded to the 51 gearbox?
"Hypothetical speaking" if you only planned to run stock boost and installed it into a car that was 300lbs lighter, do you think the gearbox would hold up?

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Izento
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:20 pm
Car: RPS13

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Wait, why are you looking for lower plenum intake gaskets? If yours are good, then why not just use that motor?

Paogasm
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:31 pm
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar Nx Se 1.6
1989 Nissan Pao 1.2
Location: Glenavon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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The gaskets at the head to the intake have been damaged. The owner before tore down the engines to check the cylinders. So if anything I need those. Wouldn't be hard to buy gasket paper and cut some out. But then again if I found a 1.8 pulsar I could switch the heads and intake track and call it good.

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mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

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A Pulsar head is the same as the late model DET head. There may be differences in the material of the valves, and a CA16 intake can is slightly more aggressive, but everything bolts up and the gaskets are easy to find. The manifold is of a different design, though. Find a DET manifold, swap the throttle body to the opposite end of the plenum for FWD, and rock that. Idk if there are any differences in the early DET bottom end, but the FWD bottom end is definitely different.

As for the 31A capacity, I'm not sure. The input shaft and axles definitely aren't as beefy. My 31A never developed 5th gear pop out, but I did have it in one or two of them for my E16. The strongest clutch Spec offers only holds around 225ft/lbs of torque. IMO, the transmission can handle it, but only if you aren't aggressive. If you like to shift hard or launch hard I don't the the transmission would last under that much power.

The 50A has many advantages. It's much stronger (same transmission they put in the V6 Maxima if that tells you anything), you have the ability to use a RWD flywheel and clutch (which opens up a whole lot of options), and the axles are nearly equal length (close enough that most just say they are equal length). You actually aren't 300lbs less than a Pulsar. With both cars DET swapped you'd be closer to 800lbs lighter. My Pulsar when I had it completely gutted weighed 2300lbs. Full weight with A/C, P/S, and a nice stereo put me around 2650lbs. So a stock boost CA would fly in your car. You could easily run the 31A and have a blast, but you'll be going through a headache if that transmission ever let's go (even just losing 5th gear is a pain because of how low geared they are) or you decide to do the 50A swap. I'd rather just start with the 50A unless your options and setup make the 31A much much simpler to do.

Paogasm
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:31 pm
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar Nx Se 1.6
1989 Nissan Pao 1.2
Location: Glenavon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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Both 31a and 50 will be that same amount of work I just have a 31a now. :) I am going to keep a look out for a later year pulsar, but just incase I don't find one I'd like to know what my options are. It seems that the 31a would get me by but the 50 would take a beating a bit better. And I agree if my 31a let's go I will be kicking myself in the @$$ for not going to the 50 in the first place.
As for the intake I rather enjoy the "over the top", and I'm sure the 1988 pulsar is the same style. So unless I can also find a later ca18det I will stick with that. I know that this first gen 1.8 has the piston squirters but doesn't have the crank girdle. And I'm unsure when they started using one. Would that be the only difference between the generations? Or between the fwd and red?
Thanks again I appreciate the insight

boost_boy
Posts: 7162
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:28 am
Car: B12 sentra w/built CA18DET, B12 sentra w/fully-built CA18DET, S13 coupe w/ CA18DET, S13 hatch w/CA18DET, 2002 maxima SE
Location: Miami, FL.
Contact:

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If you can't find the 50 unit, I have one with the complete clutch, flywheel and axles that I will let go for a decent price. Stay away from the 31A or you will be sorry. They are in the family of the SR20 FWD trannies and we all know how those help-up to power :gapteeth: . @ md4879: those old school heads are trouble to find gaskets for and will be even worse to make custom gaskets for. He's right, he needs to find the more modern CA18 heads and go with that unit. As for the bottom ends not coming with crank girdles, that's surprising. I've only had one of those engines and only remember taking the head off and that was nearly 14 years ago, so I can't remember what the bottom end consisted of. @ Paogasm: That over the valve cover set-up gets old really fast as it is a hassle to service coilpacks, spark plugs, valve covers, etc....

User avatar
mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

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I know the old heads were different, I was saying he could use the head from the Pulsar to replace it as it's the same as far as gaskets go. I agree with Dee that you'd rather run a RWD intake manifold.

The 50A has a hydraulic clutch setup. Idk what the Pao uses, but I'm willing to bet it's a cable clutch, right? It'd be as simple as sourcing a master and slave to use then making a line, but it's just another thing to consider, especially if you have space constraints.

Without a crank girdle you'll have a hard time finding studs for the mains, but the stock main bolts should do you just fine. The crank and rods are the same, and maybe the pistons are as well. But I can't comment on those.

Paogasm
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:31 pm
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar Nx Se 1.6
1989 Nissan Pao 1.2
Location: Glenavon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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As of now the Pao is automatic so I would be sourcing out a clutch pedal anyways. What ever gearbox goes in there will determine the clutch mechanism. I have no quarrels with installing hydraulic if I need it.
The over the top intake interests me simply because it would accommodate a top intercooler nicely, and its a bit more compact. That's all. If I can source out a rwd intake and I have enough room inside the engine bay, so be it.
I will blow up that bridge when I cross it :chuckle:

As for the lack of a crank girdle, will that undermine the strength of the motor? I mean Nissan wouldn't of installed it for no reason.

I have a lead on a 1988 pulsar with a ca18det half installed, but he said it was smoking and probably needs some bottom end work. Sooo that might not be the best route we will see what he wants for it. But it seems that if I want to do this right I'm going to need the whole vehicle.
Thanks again guys

User avatar
mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

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If the DET swapped Pulsar runs I would get it. An engine rebuild wouldn't be that bad (plus it sounds like you're already having to do one anyways), and starting with an already running swap will save a lot of headache.


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