NISSAN needs electricity!

The web's first forum dedicated to Nissan's groundbreaking electric car, the Nissan Leaf.
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NISSAN needs electricity!

Postby nissangirl74 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:53 pm

In December 2010, the new Nissan Leaf will be on the roads of America. The big question is, where will the power come from to keep them there? Nissan claims that the car will be able to travel up to 100 miles on a single charge and that the cars can be fully recharged overnight at home in 6-8 hours. Most people probably won't travel more than 100 miles in a day, but for those who do, where are they going to be able to recharge? 'Quick charge' charging stations <which take approximately 20 minutes to charge> are expensive, about $35,000 per hookup. The Department of Energy has allocated $100 million in start up funds but the question now is who gets the money? After it's all gone, who else is willing to foot the bill for more stations? Wal-mart? Grocery stores? Gas stations? How much do you charge for a fill-up? Costco installed a couple of stations in CA and let customers charge for free. However, if the Leaf goes into large scale production, it most likely won't be feasible to offer power at no charge.

Your thoughts/suggestions?

http://www.dnj.com/article/200...tions


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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (nissangirl74)

Postby MinisterofDOOM » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:03 pm

I don't see how deciding what to charge is a dilemma. It sure isn't a dilemma in any other form of electricity sales. Meter the charge and charge for what's sold!

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (MinisterofDOOM)

Postby nissangirl74 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:21 pm

I was thinking something along the lines of a parking meter with a plug inside it. Attach the plug, throw your coins in the slot, and go shopping.

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (nissangirl74)

Postby raremotive » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:58 pm

nissangirl74 wrote:I was thinking something along the lines of a parking meter with a plug inside it. Attach the plug, throw your coins in the slot, and go shopping.
I like this. And hefty fines for tampering with someone else's meter.

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (Rare_f8)

Postby nissangirl74 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:47 pm

Here is some more information i found out about the company who is responsible for networking the power source.

http://www.etecevs.com/pdf/100...t.pdf

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (MinisterofDOOM)

Postby jdansmith » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:46 am

Stores could have a plug that locks onto the vehicle and prints a slip that is used to stop the charge and used to pay and release the lock.

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Postby float_6969 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:48 pm

If Nissan can get the range to 150miles, I would sell my civic and buy one in a hearbeat. I drive about 130miles round trip every weekend to get my daughter, and I would LOVE an all electric vehicle.

I suppose I could drive to pick her up, chill at her mom's house for a couple of hours, and then come back, but I think that'd be a bit awkward, lol!

As for charging stations, I don't really see charging per kilowatt like they do now being a big deal.

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (nissangirl74)

Postby PikeFactoryFan » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:49 pm

I'm in for a Leaf if they are coming to Canada, but the charging dilemma might be a show stopper. I can see a simple parking meter at a restaurant or store to recoup cost of charging, but installing a 240V system at home would be expensive. Factor in a 240V generator for those future blackouts too?

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Re: FN-QR (float_6969)

Postby nissangirl74 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:00 pm

float_6969 wrote:If Nissan can get the range to 150miles, I would sell my civic and buy one in a hearbeat.
Considering this is Nissan's maiden voyage, it wouldn't surprise me if they get to 150 miles, possibly even more.
PikeFactoryFan wrote:I'm in for a Leaf if they are coming to Canada, but the charging dilemma might be a show stopper. I can see a simple parking meter at a restaurant or store to recoup cost of charging, but installing a 240V system at home would be expensive. Factor in a 240V generator for those future blackouts too?
I hadn't even thought about the power outage dilemma but in all seriousness, if you live in Canada, an electric car is probably not going to be your primary winter transportation. I'd definitely have a gas-powered 4x4 in the driveway too, or just stay the heck home!

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Postby float_6969 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:58 am

Why would a 240V charging system at home be expensive? It's very simple from a wiring standpoint. The ONLY thing that might cause problems is if your house is old enough that you only have 100A service and don't have room for the 240V breaker in your box.

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (nissangirl74)

Postby Nancy08 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:58 pm

But, of course.

New learning in this thread.

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (Nancy08)

Postby DroptopDrifting » Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:12 pm

float, many homes in the world, especially in the usa, are old like you mentioned, i know where i live, most homes here cannot support it. and not to mention, what if you're a renter and don't own your own home? this is something that will take 2 generations of mankind to truly even begin to assimilate.

and for all of you that can see these simple parking meters to recharge everywhere, and only charge you for the power you're using, you guys are nuts. if it's going to cost the $35k just to put a charging station in, they're going to charge you for the power you're using, plus X amount of dollars to recoup some of that cost. not to mention the gov't will have extra taxes on it because well, that's what they do. they will lose tax revenue from less gasoline purchases, so they will need to get the money from somewhere and that's an easy justification. now there is also the idea of offsetting the amount of gasoline sold. no way is this going to cost less than gasoline otherwise too many people will switch over way too quickly which will greatly disrupt the balance of world economies.

basically what im trying to say is, there are way too many variables to take into account that none of you are doing. it's not gonna be as simple as you all seem to think, nothing ever is. but there is one thing i can guarantee: a cafe/diner/lounge at every charging station. if you're gonna have to wait 30 min for an 80% charge, you'll need somethin to do. if you wanna make some money, start lookin into that.

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (DroptopDrifting)

Postby relytgerg » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:28 am

The Leaf can also be charged in a regular 110 volt household outlet, although at a slower rate. However, for many who primarily use the vehicle for a short commute, this will be more than sufficient.

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (relytgerg)

Postby relytgerg » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:50 am

An interesting article at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35...utos/ seems to show that a charging infrastructure won't be that big of an issue. Nor will range anxiety according to this article.

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity!

Postby phatcat » Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:30 am

I really can't see the Leaf being a sole replacement for many commuters. I think for at least the first couple years, they'll be more like 2nd cars. I drive 80 miles daily and this would be perfect. However I may drive more frequently on the weekends. I'd hate to be stuck somewhere or more likely, alter my plans because I don't feel comfortable pushing the Leaf to its range limit.

There's probably no worse feeling than being stuck on the side of the road, except perhaps for your own negligence of running out of fuel (gas). Worse yet, you run out of fuel (electricity), that you can't find anywhere as conveniently as gas.

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Re: NISSAN needs electricity! (relytgerg)

Postby MinisterofDOOM » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:12 am

relytgerg wrote:An interesting article at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35...utos/ seems to show that a charging infrastructure won't be that big of an issue. Nor will range anxiety according to this article.
MSNBC and other non-automotive news outlets are usually embarrassingly off-the-mark when it comes to automotive stories, and this article is no exception. Certainly, if you're buying an electric vehicle with short range in mind, short range won't be a problem. Or you wouldn't buy the electric vehicle. But when it comes to electrics REPLACING (not supplementing) internal-combustion cars, range absolutely becomes an enormous issue. Even in my 17mpg Q45 I can go 350 miles on a tank. No electric can provide anywhere NEAR that. And with the Q, a fillup takes minutes and I'm off for another 350 miles. With an electric, I'd have to stop and charge. And that would make infrastructure a major issue as well.

The two issues, infrastructure and range, are absolutely huge problems, and they are absolutely going to keep most people from buying these cars. Sure, people who only drive 100 miles at a time ever will buy them, and those who can afford a dedicated commuter car in addition to their main car will buy them as well. But average citizens looking for a single car can't consider cars like the Leaf an option until some MAJOR advances in battery or other forms of electrical energy storage are made. MSNBC is dead wrong. Range and infrastructure could not possibly be more significant issues.

You cannot compare specialty test-demographics (which that article uses as its example) with real-world broad-demand appeal. There's no question people leasing BMW mini-Es would be fine with the range that car offers. If they weren't they wouldn't be a part of the test lease program. "Real" people in the real world have much broader demands for their automobiles. Real cars must do more than just travel 80-100 miles between fillups carrying passengers. Electrics aren't real cars yet, they're just ultra-purposed supplements. Which is not a bad thing; you have to start somewhere, and I'm glad to see things moving forward (I said the same when Honda launched the Clarity). But to suggest that range and infrastructure simply aren't big issues is ridiculous. They are the biggest issues...unless we're willing to permanently write off electric cars as supplements and not real cars.


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