Nissan embarrasses Ferrari

[AZhitman]

That's for sure. I've always kept my eye out for a short-bed, single-cab D21 2wd with the V6 and a manual... not many out there that aren't shagged.

[themadscientist]

If I found a VG I would have to strap a blower on top.

[OriginalWheelman]

The picture in my mind is RWD short bed with a properly dropped and dampened suspension and an LSD with either an RB25-6 or a boosted KA24 full togue mountain road attacks. It's either that or a Sunny pickup with a CA18.

My Ford Ranger just had the 2.9 V6 and and some wide wheels with good performance tires and I could really push that thing in the twisties. My Hijet is pretty much the same setup and I have lots of fun it that too. I see no reason the Nissan truck couldn't do it to.

I like the D21 body, but they are getting harder to find in good shape these days and at a reasonable price.

Import an American D21 and be USDM Tyte.

[themadscientist]

If I was willing to that I would just do this.

http://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/g ... 12019.html

[OriginalWheelman]

That's actually pretty awesome.

[themadscientist]

A lot of truck for 5 grand.

[Bubba1]

How did this thread end up about old small Pickups?

[Rev_D21]

I waved my magic wand of awesome.

[OriginalWheelman]

How did this thread end up about old small Pickups?

It was inevitable really.

[themadscientist]

Ferrari customer service is so bad we would rather own a small truck?

[AZhitman]

It was a hell of a lot less boring than the gelato-scented circle jerk that occupied Page One.

[themadscientist]

Sunny pickup plus powerful motor. Hmmm....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG7uCtfN46E

[lne937s]

Sunny pickup plus powerful motor. Hmmm....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG7uCtfN46E

Makes me think about the 1400 "Bakkie" trucks I saw all over South Africa. Kept thinking how awesome it would be to take a 25 year old version (for import reasons) and get as many parts as possible from a newer one (they kept making them until ~5 years ago). Then ship it on a Ro-Ro... maybe an SR swap...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLSB1T2QRlw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shWZQu_7bVo

[OriginalWheelman]

Where is your god now..

http://jalopnik.com/ferrari-chairman-lu ... 1632879452

Instead of keeping Montezemolo's annual production limit at 7,000 cars to retain Ferrari's exclusivity, Marchionne is planning to turn the prancing horse into a luxury brand that can compete more with Volkswagen AG's expanding Lamborghini in terms of sales grwoth and is more involved with Fiat Chrysler's products and technologies as opposed to being mostly independent as it is today.

So much for a race team that happens to build cars. Perhaps building handful of overpriced cars and treating their owners like criminals isn't a good business model?

[OriginalWheelman]

ahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa

[AZhitman]

Another example of the douchiness of the company:

"There's not the slightest intention of integrating Ferrari into Fiat-Chrysler," Marchionne said. "I want to protect Ferrari's integrity, not let it be contaminated in a mass market car industry. Ferrari's success is due in great part to that. The idea that Ferrari could be produced elsewhere is obscene, simply inconceivable."

Oh, piss off.

BTW, not such a great year in F1 = Ciao, Presidente: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ferrari-p ... 47568.html

[Bubba1]

Another example of the douchiness of the company:

"There's not the slightest intention of integrating Ferrari into Fiat-Chrysler," Marchionne said. "I want to protect Ferrari's integrity, not let it be contaminated in a mass market car industry. Ferrari's success is due in great part to that. The idea that Ferrari could be produced elsewhere is obscene, simply inconceivable."

Oh, piss off.

BTW, not such a great year in F1 = Ciao, Presidente: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ferrari-p ... 47568.html

Montemezolo is clearly an old fashioned Ferrari purist. They are more common than you think. And Ferrari's done pretty well with a purist at the helm. I can certainly understand Fiat wanting to expand revenue given VW's success with the Lamborghini Gallardo.

What's interesting is recalling what happened the last time Ferrari and Maserati decided to offer more "affordable" models. the Ferrari purists objected to the 246 Dino in the early 70's, and did not consider those V6 beauties real Ferrari's for a long time. And Ferrari sold z bunch of them. But the cautionary tale is when Maserati attempted it twice. First with the Merak, a stylish but way too fragile competitor to the Dino, and then later with the putrid BiTurbo. What a rolling turd that was. I can see Fiat trying it again, but I see it strictly as a short term experiment for 2 reasons. First, there's a lot more competition now than the last time they tried it, and 2, FIAT's collection of marques target specific income demographics. So if they attempt an affordable Ferrari (an oxymoron) again, they'll probably probably end up hurting sales on their own lower brands.

[OriginalWheelman]

Meh. It's typical Italian s***. Montemezolo is more concerned with the image, the status, in true Italian style. Marchionne wants to make money, and I would guess rather than making new models, switch to a mass production system that does not limit sales. Mentemeezolo is doing what Enzo would have wanted, keeping the brand exclusive, and thus, expensive. Marchionne would rather sell more units and have the brand be attainable.

The problem I have with Montemezolo is his attitude is the one that leads to gag orders and C&D letters. They are protecting the brand image with litigation because image is all the brand really has. Their cars aren't any faster than the competition, not significantly. There is nothing really special about a Ferrari except that it is unobtainable.

[Bubba1]

There is nothing really special about a Ferrari except that it is unobtainable.

Evidently you've never owned one or driven one. Trust me, they are special.

[OriginalWheelman]

They're supercars, don't get me wrong, but they live in a world of supercars. Veyrons, Lambos, 911 GT3s, Pagani, McLaren, Koenigsegg, Maserati, AMG, GT-R, etc. They're selling an image. It's not just Lambo and Ferrari on top anymore.

[SX APPEAL]

I'll never be able to own a Ferrari, but I'll defer to guys like Jay Leno, Jeremy Clarkson and Chris Evans when they say that it's not all about purely objective raw performance numbers. Yes there are cars that can go 0-60 0.2 of a second faster than a Ferrari and yes there are cars that can pull 0.3 more G around a skidpad than a Ferrari, that's not in question. But that's not what makes a Ferrari special. Most of these guys are good enough writers that I can understand exactly what they mean when they say that the driving experience in a Ferrari, the sharpness of the steering, the immediacy of the throttle response, the sound of the engine, is just that little bit more special in a Ferrari than in most any other car in the segment.

[Kompresshun]

Among those listed above though, the only ones that matter to me are Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Maserati.

Like Joel said - Trust me, Ferrari's are special.

They may not be top dog in all aspects, but they are truly special vehicles to experience and each one is unique. It may have competitors, but not a single one of them drives like a Ferrari or even comes close unless it's a modern Maserati and that's because some of them share parts. My first experience with one was a 308 GTS and the same day I drove a Lamborghini Countach - I would take the Ferrari hands down. Of course those two are vastly different from what we have to compare to today, but still Ferrari has always made special vehicles.

Honestly, even though modern day Lambo's are simply amazing, most of them are no better than the GT-R. You still get that same experience as you do in a GT-R, where pretty much anyone could hop in an Aventador and drive it. Ferrari has plenty of nannies in their vehicles too, but a lot of them have still retained some of their purity(for now at least).

Every supercar has something unique about it though. It's not like going down to the local car dealerships and deciding between an Altima, Camry, Fusion, Sonata, or Accord.

Each one gives you a different experience and excels in different areas - You can't say there isn't something unique about each and every one of them. If you do then you need to take another look at them.

[lne937s]

Among those listed above though, the only ones that matter to me are Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Maserati.

Like Joel said - Trust me, Ferrari's are special.

They may not be top dog in all aspects, but they are truly special vehicles to experience and each one is unique. It may have competitors, but not a single one of them drives like a Ferrari or even comes close unless it's a modern Maserati and that's because some of them share parts. My first experience with one was a 308 GTS and the same day I drove a Lamborghini Countach - I would take the Ferrari hands down. Of course those two are vastly different from what we have to compare to today, but still Ferrari has always made special vehicles.

Honestly, even though modern day Lambo's are simply amazing, most of them are no better than the GT-R. You still get that same experience as you do in a GT-R, where pretty much anyone could hop in an Aventador and drive it. Ferrari has plenty of nannies in their vehicles too, but a lot of them have still retained some of their purity(for now at least).

Every supercar has something unique about it though. It's not like going down to the local car dealerships and deciding between an Altima, Camry, Fusion, Sonata, or Accord.

Each one gives you a different experience and excels in different areas - You can't say there isn't something unique about each and every one of them. If you do then you need to take another look at them.

What is kind of fascinating thinking back to the '80's...

1982 Ferrari 308 GTS 0-60 mph 7.2 Quarter mile 15.6
1982 Lamborghini Countach LP500S 0-60 mph 5.6 Quarter mile 13.9

2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL 0-60 mph 7.3 Quarter Mile 15.5
2013 Nissan Altima 3.5 SV 0-60 mph 5.7 Quarter Mile 14.1

Essentially, a 4 cylinder CVT Altima is as fast as a Ferarri 308 GTS whereas a Lamborghini Countach is as fast as a V6 CVT Altima. In the real world with a normal driver not burning up the clutch, the Altimas are undoubtedly faster. At the same time, you get a 4 door sedan, modern safety standards, about 3 times as many miles from a gallon of gas and dramatically better reliability.

Obviously, there is more to a car than just numbers, but it is fascinating how far we have come in terms of measured performance.

[Bubba1]

1982 Ferrari 308 GTS 0-60 mph 7.2 Quarter mile 15.6
1982 Lamborghini Countach LP500S 0-60 mph 5.6 Quarter mile 13.9

2013 Nissan Altima 2.5 SL 0-60 mph 7.3 Quarter Mile 15.5
2013 Nissan Altima 3.5 SV 0-60 mph 5.7 Quarter Mile 14.1

Essentially, a 4 cylinder CVT Altima is as fast as a Ferarri 308 GTS whereas a Lamborghini Countach is as fast as a V6 CVT Altima. In the real world with a normal driver not burning up the clutch, the Altimas are undoubtedly faster. At the same time, you get a 4 door sedan, modern safety standards, about 3 times as many miles from a gallon of gas and dramatically better reliability.

Obviously, there is more to a car than just numbers, but it is fascinating how far we have come in terms of measured performance.

I agree, It's astonishing how much the auto industry has changed over the years in terms of performance. But to fair, if you compare a 1982 Countach to a 1982 Nissan, the Countach was blazing by comparison. I drove a Countach many years ago and was a bit disappointed. Not with its power, sounds, handling, or its ability to draw a crowd. It just was not particularly comfortable car and you could not see well out of it, especially to the rear. I know many people consider it a dream car, but I probably wouldn't want to own one. Despite my little gripes, it was still special experience to drive it. Ferrari's of that era were better than their Lambo counterparts, but the greatest Ferrari's imho were built in the 1960's, not the 80's,(well, with the possible exceptions of the 288 GTO & F40)

[the converted]

They truly are amazing cars. I've been driving a ton of them recently (wonder why that is) and even coming back from a spin in a well sorted 308 4 valve I always have a smile on my face. I'm really starting to like the flat 12 cars though!

The way they handled this is something else though, and the best thing they could have done for themselves is just keep their mouths shut in the first place.

[AZhitman]

^ That pretty much says it all, from a guy who's elbow-deep in them nearly every day.

Also, nice to have Joel's insight, considering he's driven more cars than most of us will ever dream of.

Also, has me thinking about my next car - Boxster S, Elise, Carrera S, C5 Z06, M Roadster... Hmmmm.

[themadscientist]

If I want a supercar I want the one that wants to kill me.

http://www.koenigsegg.com/models/agera-r/

[Bubba1]

If I want a supercar I want the one that wants to kill me.

http://www.koenigsegg.com/models/agera-r/

Nice choice. There's also the less expensive Porsche Carrera GT. Gorgeous, but it'll bite you hard at its limits. Just ask Paul Walker...oops...

[the converted]

Greg, your list is so disjointed I just don't know what to say to you. I'd take a Cayman S over the boxter hands down. An Evora is a bit better of an around towner with the 6 bust still fun when you put the power down. Which chassis Carrera, I like the newer ones for the power, but I think a 993 c4s is where I would go. Can't argue with the vette, and you already know what those are like. What Z are you thinking?

[themadscientist]

The Cayman speaks to me as well, but I saw one of these a few months ago and I wanted to make sweet love to it down by THE WINDY ROAD AT INSANE SPEEDS TAUNTING DEATH TO COME AT ME BRO! It was magical.

http://www.diseno-art.com/encyclopedia/ ... ra_zz.html