Nismo Z value?

Nissan 350z / Nissan 370z general community discussion forum
User avatar
evildky
Posts: 14713
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:23 pm
Car: 71 240ZT, 87 300ZXN/A-T, 06 350Z GT, Tundra TRD RW
Location: Louisville, KY
Contact:

Post

So I've kept an eye on the 350Z's for a few years and they have been holding a bottom of around 10k for a decent early car, the newer cars are slowly depreciating as the 370z depreciates. I find it odd that the 350Z Nismo has plateaued at around 20k for a couple of years as the 370Z nismo has dropped to around 22k. With a few people still trying to get yesterdays prices this seems to be the trend in the marketplace. I'm just amazed that the 350Z Nismo has managed to hold onto it's value as the 370Z nismo has sunk rather fast and will surely push the values of the 350Z nismo further in the coming years. I'm not trying to put a value on anyones cars these are just observations based on what I've seen in the market. My question is is there something wrong with the 370Z nismo? it seems like a real bang for the buck car from where I sit. For an extra 2k you get the same prestige of owning a top line Nismo product, only newer, presumably less miles, lighter weight, and more power, seems cheap by comparison and the Nismo 350Z took longer to reach such prices. So is there something just less about the 370Z nismo making it less desirable and the faster depreciation curve? Or is it just a statement of the economy of people trying to unload cars they find they can no longer afford? Opinions?


jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Post

nismo 370z isnt lighter its heavier by about 100 lbs, also the vq37vhr has oil overheating issues stock making it less desirable for mods(all the big power guys, relatively speaking since they dont make much in my opinion, swap to HR heads to eliminate that), parts availability is also dismal vs the vq35's. all that drops desirability and demand which drops price.

plus not sure where you are getting a 370z nismo for 22k, cheapest ive seen is 30k for a used 2012 with 16k miles and while here in hawaii the prices are retarded ebay has a 350z nismo right now for 17k...............

User avatar
evildky
Posts: 14713
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:23 pm
Car: 71 240ZT, 87 300ZXN/A-T, 06 350Z GT, Tundra TRD RW
Location: Louisville, KY
Contact:

Post

The Nismo 350z weighs 3322 and has 300 hp, the Nismo 370z weighs 3314 with 350 hp lighter yes but not enough to matter. The hp difference is hard to argue. The Nismo 350 was lighter than the standard model with no extra hp while the Nismo 370 is heavier than the standard car but adds power. And I've seen that N350 on eBay missing 2k wroth of wheels. I've seen a few N370's dip as low as 22k, Craigslist, cars.com, autotrader etc, granted we're talking earlier cars.

jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Post

my bad my source got the vert and nismo mixed up for the 370z, hardly worth mentioning weight wise though it would be a wash, hp on the HR is actuall 306 hp not 300 though. but still my main point still stands the 350 gets you a car in most cases much cheaper unless somehow you get amazingly lucky, superior parts availability, and a more reliable engine.

the vhr was a step forward in technology but as far as reliability and performance it is horrid with its oil heating issues, that extra 44 hp dosnt do much stock for stock when the 370 has to shut down early stock for stock lol. ill say this though the price people charge for oil coolers is ridiculous for the 370z, never seen so many people ripped off paying 1k for a oil cooler when you can get similar performance for ~300

User avatar
evildky
Posts: 14713
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:23 pm
Car: 71 240ZT, 87 300ZXN/A-T, 06 350Z GT, Tundra TRD RW
Location: Louisville, KY
Contact:

Post

It is interesting, the N350 was a lightweight version of the 350, the N370 is a heavyweight luxury version of the 370, completely different ideology. The N350 turns about a 13.7 quarter mile while the N370 does it in 13.1, that a big difference. It just seems to me that the N350 help it's value a lot longer and has had a slower depreciation curve, while the N370 has dropped fairly quickly. Generally the N370's being newer have fewer miles to boot.

Oil coolers are a fairly simple inexpensive part, as are hoses and fittings unless there is something proprietary about the 370 anyone willing to take the time can put together their own cooler for a fraction of the cost of aftermarket. Not that this is surprising the aftermarket is full of overpriced brand name parts that cost way more than they should. It's shameful what K&N sells filters for and then what they and other charge for simple plastic or aluminum tubing, there isn't a lot of engineering to do here, exhaust systems are a bit more complicated but still should be a fraction of what they actually sell for.

jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Post

more of what im talking about is when a shop buys $300 in parts and sells it to the customer for $1000 when all they do is put some ends on a couple hoses and drill a couple holes in some steel charging 700 for essentially 30-60 mins of work, some of the stuff you mention does have a valid purpose such as air filters......... i spent $80 on my air filter that flows enough to support 1000 whp, exhaust if designed proper are very intensive with a ton of math involved where only the basics are algebra level and a large portion involves calculus combined with being tig welded it gets expensive very quickly. obviously there are those who dont do that though and charge a arm and a leg, such as hks and how they love making exhaust that loop in a circle before going into the exhaust and 100% are no good for actually making power.

more on topic though is that the fact you have to run a oil cooler stock means your going to fight a constant up hill battle when trying to make power. needing a oil cooler stock no mods so the engine dosnt go into limp home mode(or having to swap to HR heads and remove the only real advantage the vhr has) vs the 350 which is able to even do supercharged/turbo without a oil cooler and used heavily no issues. its easy to see why it dosnt have the same appeal and the price degrades faster, it is a sports car after all :chuckle:

its kinda like the GTR and the transmissions grenading stock, sure they can be built for power but its costly and a uphill battle to just get the car reliable without mods when you can start with a cheaper platform with fewer issues.

figgsy4ever
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 6:31 pm
Car: 370zNISMO

Post

evildky wrote:So I've kept an eye on the 350Z's for a few years and they have been holding a bottom of around 10k for a decent early car, the newer cars are slowly depreciating as the 370z depreciates. I find it odd that the 350Z Nismo has plateaued at around 20k for a couple of years as the 370Z nismo has dropped to around 22k. With a few people still trying to get yesterdays prices this seems to be the trend in the marketplace. I'm just amazed that the 350Z Nismo has managed to hold onto it's value as the 370Z nismo has sunk rather fast and will surely push the values of the 350Z nismo further in the coming years. I'm not trying to put a value on anyones cars these are just observations based on what I've seen in the market. My question is is there something wrong with the 370Z nismo? it seems like a real bang for the buck car from where I sit. For an extra 2k you get the same prestige of owning a top line Nismo product, only newer, presumably less miles, lighter weight, and more power, seems cheap by comparison and the Nismo 350Z took longer to reach such prices. So is there something just less about the 370Z nismo making it less desirable and the faster depreciation curve? Or is it just a statement of the economy of people trying to unload cars they find they can no longer afford? Opinions?
[quote="So is there something just less about the 370Z nismo making it less desirable and the faster depreciation curve? Or is it just a statement of the economy of people trying to unload cars they find they can no longer afford? Opinions?[/quote]

The 370 nismo has a rep of being overpriced,rough and fast so only a true enthusiast is willing to keep such a beast. My nismo was traded for a softer riding mustang 2 days after being purchased.
I too have noticed several '13 nismo 370 for 32-33k under 20k miles.
The prospect of a $1600 bill for all season tires every 2-3 years and other assorted maintenance charges scares off many normal married folks. lol so glad I'm not normal ;)

User avatar
RicerX
Moderator
Posts: 4013
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:36 am
Car: '20 Titan Pro4X
Location: Southeastern US

Post

As a current 370 owner that has driven in southern climates with bolt ons (not on the track, but the occasional spirited runs through curves and such), the oil temp issue is just not an issue at all. If you're driving at the track, yes it's an issue. A cooler is necessary, and there are many I've talked to where they've gone overboard on the size of the cooler for where they are. A 34-row cooler from Z1 motorsports is often the catch-all, even for a forced induction application. This is for guys in the 400-550hp range. I think that's more than enough for the car, but there are guys that want to go bigger, and I'm not sure that a larger cooler isn't the answer there (or another car entirely - I don't see the point of a 800hp 370Z, but I'm likely in the minority.) Keep in mind the 2012+ model comes with a small oil cooler from the factory, while the 09-11s have nothing at all. I have owned a 2010 and a 2013. The oil temps vary less on my 2013 than my 2010, and my 2010 would heat up more quickly.

That said, the Nismo is a sweet ride. I opted out because mine is currently a daily driver, and the Nismo's suspension is just too stiff for everyday use (for me, and others would agree).

Now, if you're going to buy a base Z and immediately want body mods, suspension, wheels, etc, the Nismo is good to consider if you like the look because you get all of that under warranty for the price difference - that's where the "overpriced" criticism can be countered. If you get a base Z and buy quality forged wheels and tires, you're looking at a minimum of $3000 for all of that. Good body parts and body work for bumpers, side skirts, spoilers gets you another $3000 easily. Add in suspension work, and you're easily at the price point no matter if used vs new. That's just something to think about.

It all depends on what you want out of a car. I find the 370Z to be a very underrated option if you're after a true sports car. Every car has its weak points, but the oil temp issue is far less detrimental to the enjoyment of the car as many make it out to be. The Nismo is very well equipped for its intent. Every car enthusiast will have a critique for it and have his way with modification, etc.

User avatar
dasoupdude
Posts: 5080
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:26 pm
Car: 2005 Z
Location: Palm Beach, FL / Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Post

evildky wrote: So is there something just less about the 370Z nismo making it less desirable and the faster depreciation curve? Or is it just a statement of the economy of people trying to unload cars they find they can no longer afford? Opinions?

-The Nismo z33 was essentially more of a track ready car, compared to its successor. Unlike the 370, the 350 came with a seam welded chassis from autech.

-Along with that, Nissan gave a super limited run of the z33 nismos from only 2007 to 2008. (I think they only produced a little over 1600)

-Nismo z34 (although limited )has been a trim every year the 370 has been out so far, thus yielding more copies than the z33.

It's not strange to find a Nismo 370 nowadays for sub 24k.

Personally, I like the sport+touring. The Nissan infotaiment system is really neat and clean, too bad only japan gets that option in the Nismo Fairladys. :crazy:

twocents

NSRsheets
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:07 am
Car: 2009 Nismo 370Z #85,1993 Nissan 240sx RB25DET coupe, 2013 focus

Post

Haven't had any problems with mine. I almost traded it in once and was going to get $30k for it with about 9k miles on it. I personally haven't seen to many for sale. I think the current economy is what's affecting the value. I also think no one knows how to price it. Last time I checked kbb it said n/a for the value.

jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Post

thats the thing though is the very fact it NEEDS one for performance or pretty much any aggressive driving(we had someone local who had oil overheating issues with aggressive street driving and thats only 85 degrees here, i cant imagine in the 90-95 ohio sees regularly or the 100+ in some other states) my thermostat is close 99% of the time with my 24 row on a vq35de i literally need to be running my 850 whp tune for at least 30 minutes racing for the cooler to even open and its only open mayby a minute, i can go at least a hour on 600whp. thats not something thats possible on the 370z, ive repeatedly seen complaints from people that the car goes into limp home mode within 10-15 mins on the track bone stock.

over heating like that results in spun bearings, especially with how tight factory clearances are. a sports car shouldnt be limited to such a short time on the track, after all thats what they are built for. if we where talking about say the fx(or whatever its called now) that would be a completely different story but we arnt.

it would kinda be like them selling the GTR but you needing to buy aftermarket tuning software to rev it more then 3k, not a good idea to sell a specific type of vehicle that requires modification from the factory to do that job.

as far as 3k minimum.................. that r compound territory, tsw interlaggos will run you 1k and are forged something people dont seem to understand with the "forged" name brand wheels is that the only thing forged on them is the barrels the face is still cast, te37s are a perfect example, half the pictures of broken "reps" are actual volks because they are in reality a cast face with a rotary forged barrel. 60% of the current cost of volk wheels is because of ripple effects of the tsunami still being felt(heck you cant even use HR headstuds because they became junk after the tsunami due to damages to the plant) and shipping, your looking at $200-250 bucks a wheel just to get them to the store in shipping that you pay when buying them. so 3k can get you a decent set of wheels on toyo r888's
RicerX wrote:As a current 370 owner that has driven in southern climates with bolt ons (not on the track, but the occasional spirited runs through curves and such), the oil temp issue is just not an issue at all. If you're driving at the track, yes it's an issue. A cooler is necessary, and there are many I've talked to where they've gone overboard on the size of the cooler for where they are. A 34-row cooler from Z1 motorsports is often the catch-all, even for a forced induction application. This is for guys in the 400-550hp range. I think that's more than enough for the car, but there are guys that want to go bigger, and I'm not sure that a larger cooler isn't the answer there (or another car entirely - I don't see the point of a 800hp 370Z, but I'm likely in the minority.) Keep in mind the 2012+ model comes with a small oil cooler from the factory, while the 09-11s have nothing at all. I have owned a 2010 and a 2013. The oil temps vary less on my 2013 than my 2010, and my 2010 would heat up more quickly.

That said, the Nismo is a sweet ride. I opted out because mine is currently a daily driver, and the Nismo's suspension is just too stiff for everyday use (for me, and others would agree).

Now, if you're going to buy a base Z and immediately want body mods, suspension, wheels, etc, the Nismo is good to consider if you like the look because you get all of that under warranty for the price difference - that's where the "overpriced" criticism can be countered. If you get a base Z and buy quality forged wheels and tires, you're looking at a minimum of $3000 for all of that. Good body parts and body work for bumpers, side skirts, spoilers gets you another $3000 easily. Add in suspension work, and you're easily at the price point no matter if used vs new. That's just something to think about.

It all depends on what you want out of a car. I find the 370Z to be a very underrated option if you're after a true sports car. Every car has its weak points, but the oil temp issue is far less detrimental to the enjoyment of the car as many make it out to be. The Nismo is very well equipped for its intent. Every car enthusiast will have a critique for it and have his way with modification, etc.

User avatar
BusyBadger
Posts: 4950
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:20 pm
Car: '92 240SX, '05 350Z, '13 Juke
Contact:

Post

The TE37 from Volk is a forged monoblock wheel unless Rays has recently changed how they're manufactured.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K_CRzURyVE[/youtube]

Next vid is on Rays casting technique for the cast wheels they do make.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38V25Ib-WY[/youtube]

User avatar
RicerX
Moderator
Posts: 4013
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:36 am
Car: '20 Titan Pro4X
Location: Southeastern US

Post

jerryd1987 wrote:thats the thing though is the very fact it NEEDS one for performance or pretty much any aggressive driving(we had someone local who had oil overheating issues with aggressive street driving and thats only 85 degrees here, i cant imagine in the 90-95 ohio sees regularly or the 100+ in some other states) my thermostat is close 99% of the time with my 24 row on a vq35de i literally need to be running my 850 whp tune for at least 30 minutes racing for the cooler to even open and its only open mayby a minute, i can go at least a hour on 600whp. thats not something thats possible on the 370z, ive repeatedly seen complaints from people that the car goes into limp home mode within 10-15 mins on the track bone stock.

it would kinda be like them selling the GTR but you needing to buy aftermarket tuning software to rev it more then 3k, not a good idea to sell a specific type of vehicle that requires modification from the factory to do that job.

as far as 3k minimum.................. that r compound territory, tsw interlaggos will run you 1k and are forged something people dont seem to understand with the "forged" name brand wheels is that the only thing forged on them is the barrels the face is still cast, te37s are a perfect example, half the pictures of broken "reps" are actual volks because they are in reality a cast face with a rotary forged barrel. 60% of the current cost of volk wheels is because of ripple effects of the tsunami still being felt(heck you cant even use HR headstuds because they became junk after the tsunami due to damages to the plant) and shipping, your looking at $200-250 bucks a wheel just to get them to the store in shipping that you pay when buying them. so 3k can get you a decent set of wheels on toyo r888's
We know two groups of people with 370s then. I know plenty of guys running forced induction with oil coolers and an oil pan spacer that have no problem on HPDEs. It can be done right and work just fine. It's not cheap, and I think that's why a lot of guys toss their hands up in the air and go back to a 350 if we're talking about guys that are currently looking into Z cars. You're making it sound like the 370Z cannot be driven at all in stock form and I say that's a bit overzealous.

As far as the wheels go... agree to disagree here. I can't find Advans for $3k total by themselves in 19". Real Volks or Rays are easily $3k+ without center caps, valve stems, lugs, or tires. Badger brought up the other part of what I was going to say as far as monoblock forged wheels. I doubt Nissan is using cast-faced Rays on the GT-R. Either way, not sure where you were going with that argument, especially considering that the TSW wheels you cite are rotary forged with a cast face, and that's straight from their website: http://www.tsw.com/alloy_wheels_interlagos.php

jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Post

no where at all did i say that you cant drive it at all, i did say however you cant drive it aggressively stock thats why nissan added a oil cooler BECAUSE of the number of complaints they received. also define what you mean by hpde because it includes a VAST number of driving experiences if its some of that short track autox then that isnt really doing much running the car for under 2 minutes.

i can definitely tell you it would be impossible for my driving style to drive it stock the newer ones with a oil cooler MIGHT just stay out of limp home mode an issue i have none of with the vq35de. you dont seem to get that your actually proving my point further every time you post especially with the guys you know, running FI, oil coolers and being expensive. what your not getting is that they have to do all of that just to keep the engine out of failsafe at 260 degrees F, you also seem to be over looking is that the non vvel engines can make SIGNIFICANTLY more power, run longer, drive just as aggressive or more so and still BARELY hit the 180 degrees F to open the sandwhich plate to even send oil to the cooler. past 180 degrees engine oils oxidation rate doubles every 18 degrees and its ability to lubricate drops. even if they are able to keep down to around 230 with MASSIVE coolers engine oil has lost around 45% of its ability to lubricate if it is held there for any length of time, 260 is about 65% if your hold if it sees that temp for more then an our it begins to drop dramatically. Even worse? its not a temporary thing, when the oil cools back down it dosnt spring back up to 100% lubricity it stays exactly where it was left even if you only have 10 sessions getting it up to that temp of 10 minutes each the oil has taken a significant hit. thats on TOP of regular driving, these are things most people dont know, nor even realize there has been massive amounts of research done on the subject.

overall this alone makes the vq37vhr a SIGNIFICANTLY worse performance engine vs its predecessors which is the point i was making that it is a inferior engine to the vq35hr and vq35de.

as far as wheels, rays has ALWAYS done rotary forging they are one of the company's that pioneered it and since the tsunami almost all there wheels are rotary forged that is coming directly from my supplier. ssr is another of those "forged" companys that actually are just rotary forged take a look at this picture, see that grainy stucture in the breaks of the wheel? thats a cast face, a truely forged face would shear and be shiny with no visable grain structure as the grain has been compressed under 60+ tons it would also elongate and deform before reaching that sheer point. http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/1060794-ssr-gtv-series/

the stock GTR wheels are most definitely cast faces, i have seen them fail in person, remember the crowd i hang out with is turbo/supercharged z06 vettes, gt500s, modified gtrs and supras, zl1's, zr1's, 40+ psi scoobys and evos. even our slowest guys run in the 10's

not only that some of the fastest time attack cars out there have been running on cheap wheels including some of the fastest evo's and sti's running rota's and varrestones(sp?) although they are too heavy for my taste. on lsd motorsports scale they weighed te37's, rpf1's, and my tsw interlaggos. all in 18x10.5 and the weights came out to 17.8 lbs, 20 lbs and 21 lbs respectively with prices at the time i bought wheels and before the tsunami of $550, $250, $150 needless to say the choice was easy, especially since most of the extra cost in the volks was shipping them to the states before the store even saw them

btw im well aware of my tsw's being rotary forged, the point im making is that you can get QUALITY wheels and tires for under 3k hell you can get a track dedicated setup for under that. the whole "jdm tite" thing is overplayed and not what its hyped up to be especially since going with an american company(weld wheels) i can get a lighter, better performing wheel for cheaper then a te37 although more then what you would pay for rpf1's or my tsw's. in fact the track guys i have interacted with and can actually get the wheels for their cars absolutely love tsw's ive seen interlaggos and nurburgrings everywhere. most of the proponents of "name brand" wheels are hard parkers because the track guys dont want to mess up a expensive wheel, te37s in big sizes are up to 800-1000 per wheel now.
RicerX wrote:
jerryd1987 wrote:thats the thing though is the very fact it NEEDS one for performance or pretty much any aggressive driving(we had someone local who had oil overheating issues with aggressive street driving and thats only 85 degrees here, i cant imagine in the 90-95 ohio sees regularly or the 100+ in some other states) my thermostat is close 99% of the time with my 24 row on a vq35de i literally need to be running my 850 whp tune for at least 30 minutes racing for the cooler to even open and its only open mayby a minute, i can go at least a hour on 600whp. thats not something thats possible on the 370z, ive repeatedly seen complaints from people that the car goes into limp home mode within 10-15 mins on the track bone stock.

it would kinda be like them selling the GTR but you needing to buy aftermarket tuning software to rev it more then 3k, not a good idea to sell a specific type of vehicle that requires modification from the factory to do that job.

as far as 3k minimum.................. that r compound territory, tsw interlaggos will run you 1k and are forged something people dont seem to understand with the "forged" name brand wheels is that the only thing forged on them is the barrels the face is still cast, te37s are a perfect example, half the pictures of broken "reps" are actual volks because they are in reality a cast face with a rotary forged barrel. 60% of the current cost of volk wheels is because of ripple effects of the tsunami still being felt(heck you cant even use HR headstuds because they became junk after the tsunami due to damages to the plant) and shipping, your looking at $200-250 bucks a wheel just to get them to the store in shipping that you pay when buying them. so 3k can get you a decent set of wheels on toyo r888's
We know two groups of people with 370s then. I know plenty of guys running forced induction with oil coolers and an oil pan spacer that have no problem on HPDEs. It can be done right and work just fine. It's not cheap, and I think that's why a lot of guys toss their hands up in the air and go back to a 350 if we're talking about guys that are currently looking into Z cars. You're making it sound like the 370Z cannot be driven at all in stock form and I say that's a bit overzealous.

As far as the wheels go... agree to disagree here. I can't find Advans for $3k total by themselves in 19". Real Volks or Rays are easily $3k+ without center caps, valve stems, lugs, or tires. Badger brought up the other part of what I was going to say as far as monoblock forged wheels. I doubt Nissan is using cast-faced Rays on the GT-R. Either way, not sure where you were going with that argument, especially considering that the TSW wheels you cite are rotary forged with a cast face, and that's straight from their website: http://www.tsw.com/alloy_wheels_interlagos.php

jerryd1987
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:25 am
Car: 03 350z many mods inc next year

Post

btw my 21 lb tsw's are incredibly light in comparison to my 33 lb 305/35/18 r888 rears and 28 lb 285/30/18 fronts

NSRsheets
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:07 am
Car: 2009 Nismo 370Z #85,1993 Nissan 240sx RB25DET coupe, 2013 focus

Post

Last time I checked the stock nismo wheels were around $5k from Nissan. If anyone is looking for a nismo 370z there's a 2013 one at the dealership for about $39k.


Return to “350z / 370z Discussion”