Obama's $845 billion U.N. plan forwarded to U.S. Senate floor'Global Poverty Act' to cost each citizen $2,500 or more
The U.S. Senate soon could be debating whether you, your spouse and each of your children – as well as your in-laws, parents, grandparents, neighbors and everyone else in America – each will be spending $2,500 or more to reduce poverty around the world.
The plan sponsored by Sen. Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee for the office of president, is estimated to cost the United States some $845 billion over the coming few years in an effort to raise the standard of living around the globe.
S.2433 already has been approved in one form by the U.S. House of Representatives, and now has been placed on the Senate Legislative Calendar for pending debate.
WND previously has reported the proposal demands the president develop "and implement" a policy to "cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief" and other programs.
Cliff Kincaid at Accuracy in Media has published a critique asserting that while the Global Poverty Act sounds nice, the adoption could "result in the imposition of a global tax on the United States" and would make levels "of U.S. foreign aid spending subservient to the dictates of the United Nations."
He said the legislation, if approved, dedicates 0.7 percent of the U.S. gross national product to foreign aid, which over 13 years he said would amount to $845 billion "over and above what the U.S. already spends."
The plan passed the House in 2007 "because most members didn't realize what was in it," Kincaid reported. "Congressional sponsors have been careful not to calculate the amount of foreign aid spending that it would require."
A recent statement from Obama's office noted the support offered by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
"With billions of people living on just dollars a day around the world, global poverty remains one of the greatest challenges and tragedies the international community faces," Obama said. "It must be a priority of American foreign policy to commit to eliminating extreme poverty and ensuring every child has food, shelter, and clean drinking water. As we strive to rebuild America's standing in the world, this important bill will demonstrate our promise and commitment to those in the developing world.
"Our commitment to the global economy must extend beyond trade agreements that are more about increasing profits than about helping workers and small farmers everywhere," he continued.
Another critic, however, has been commentator Glenn Beck, whose YouTube video critique can be seen here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PePbtEABzGk
"Not one dime would go to fixing America," the commentary said.
Obama has continued to lobby for such massive expenditures on his campaign stops. During an address as recently as last week, he said, "I'll double our foreign assistance to $50 billion by 2012, and use it to support a stable future in failing states, and sustainable growth in Africa; to halve global poverty and to roll back disease."
Beck and Kincaid pointed out that the plan not only commits the U.S. to the anti-poverty spending proposal, it also adopts for the U.S. the United Nations Millennium Development Goal, which includes a variety treaties and protocols advocated by the U.N.
Objections have remained strong. On a posting also available at the All American blogger, a commentator warned that the U.S. has yet to be able to win its own war on poverty.
"On January 8, 1964, President Lyndon Johnson declared "all-out war on human poverty and unemployment in these United States." This "all-out war" would last through the presidencies of Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, H.W. Bush, Clinton, and George W. Bush. We have spent billions of dollars fighting this war, and what have we achieved?"
He continued, "Very little. In 1964, there were 36 million Americans living in poverty, or about 19 percent of the population. In the 40 years between 1964 and 2004: ... poverty never measured less than 11 percent of the population. In 1983, under President Reagan, poverty registered 15.2 percent; in 1993, at the beginning of Bill Clinton's presidency, poverty was measured at 13.7 percent of the population. In 2004, under George W. Bush, a president often accused by the political Left as not caring about the poor, the poverty rate declined to 12.7 percent. Still, some 37 million Americans remain poor."
Despite that performance, "Obama is ready to take the fight global," said commentator Duane Lester.
"In addition to seeking to eradicate poverty, that declaration commits nations to banning 'small arms and light weapons' and ratifying a series of treaties, including the International Criminal Court Treaty, the Kyoto Protocol (global warming treaty), the Convention on Biological Diversity, the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, and the Convention on the Rights of the Child," he wrote.
Tom DeWeese at NewsWithViews said the plan "is very telling" about what Obama would do as president.
DeWeese, president of the American Policy Center, warned the over-arching plan includes the ideals of consolidating all international agencies under the U.N., regulation by the U.N. of all corporate environmental issues, license fees charged by the U.N. to use air, water and natural resources, a restructuring that would give hand-picked non-governmental organizations huge influence, authorize a standing U.N. army and require registration of all arms.
News of today.....
Re: News of today..... (confedup)
He ventured forth to bring light to the worldThe anointed one's pilgrimage to the Holy Land is a miracle in action - and a blessing to all his faithful followers
And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness.
The Child was blessed in looks and intellect. Scion of a simple family, offspring of a miraculous union, grandson of a typical white person and an African peasant. And yea, as he grew, the Child walked in the path of righteousness, with only the occasional detour into the odd weed and a little blow.
When he was twelve years old, they found him in the temple in the City of Chicago, arguing the finer points of community organisation with the Prophet Jeremiah and the Elders. And the Elders were astonished at what they heard and said among themselves: “Verily, who is this Child that he opens our hearts and minds to the audacity of hope?”
In the great Battles of Caucus and Primary he smote the conniving Hillary, wife of the deposed King Bill the Priapic and their barbarian hordes of Working Class Whites.
And so it was, in the fullness of time, before the harvest month of the appointed year, the Child ventured forth - for the first time - to bring the light unto all the world.
He travelled fleet of foot and light of camel, with a small retinue that consisted only of his loyal disciples from the tribe of the Media. He ventured first to the land of the Hindu Kush, where the
Taleban had harboured the viper of al-Qaeda in their bosom, raining terror on all the world.
And the Child spake and the tribes of Nato immediately loosed the Caveats that had previously bound them. And in the great battle that ensued the forces of the light were triumphant. For as long as the
Child stood with his arms raised aloft, the enemy suffered great blows and the threat of terror was no more.
From there he went forth to Mesopotamia where he was received by the great ruler al-Maliki, and al-Maliki spake unto him and blessed his Sixteen Month Troop Withdrawal Plan even as the imperial warrior Petraeus tried to destroy it.
And lo, in Mesopotamia, a miracle occurred. Even though the Great Surge of Armour that the evil Bush had ordered had been a terrible mistake, a waste of vital military resources and doomed to end in disaster, the Child's very presence suddenly brought forth a great victory for the forces of the light.
And the Persians, who saw all this and were greatly fearful, longed to speak with the Child and saw that the Child was the bringer of peace. At the mention of his name they quickly laid aside their intrigues and beat their uranium swords into civil nuclear energy ploughshares.
From there the Child went up to the city of Jerusalem, and entered through the gate seated on an ***. The crowds of network anchors who had followed him from afar cheered “Hosanna” and waved great palm fronds and strewed them at his feet.
In Jerusalem and in surrounding Palestine, the Child spake to the Hebrews and the Arabs, as the Scripture had foretold. And in an instant, the lion lay down with the lamb, and the Israelites and Ishmaelites ended their long enmity and lived for ever after in peace.
As word spread throughout the land about the Child's wondrous works, peoples from all over flocked to hear him; Hittites and Abbasids; Obamacons and McCainiacs; Cameroonians and Blairites.
And they told of strange and wondrous things that greeted the news of the Child's journey. Around the world, global temperatures began to decline, and the ocean levels fell and the great warming was over.
The Great Prophet Algore of Nobel and Oscar, who many had believed was the anointed one, smiled and told his followers that the Child was the one generations had been waiting for.
And there were other wonderful signs. In the city of the Street at the Wall, spreads on interbank interest rates dropped like manna from Heaven and rates on credit default swaps fell to the ground as dead birds from the almond tree, and the people who had lived in foreclosure were able to borrow again.
Black gold gushed from the ground at prices well below $140 per barrel. In hospitals across the land the sick were cured even though they were uninsured. And all because the Child had pronounced it.
And this is the testimony of one who speaks the truth and bears witness to the truth so that you might believe. And he knows it is the truth for he saw it all on CNN and the BBC and in the pages of The New York Times.
Then the Child ventured forth from Israel and Palestine and stepped onto the shores of the Old Continent. In the land of Queen Angela of Merkel, vast multitudes gathered to hear his voice, and he preached to them at length.
But when he had finished speaking his disciples told him the crowd was hungry, for they had had nothing to eat all the hours they had waited for him.
And so the Child told his disciples to fetch some food but all they had was five loaves and a couple of frankfurters. So he took the bread and the frankfurters and blessed them and told his disciples to feed the multitudes. And when all had eaten their fill, the scraps filled twelve baskets.
Thence he travelled west to Mount Sarkozy. Even the beauteous Princess Carla of the tribe of the Bruni was struck by awe and she was great in love with the Child, but he was tempted not.
On the Seventh Day he walked across the Channel of the Angles to the ancient land of the hooligans. There he was welcomed with open arms by the once great prophet Blair and his successor, Gordon the Leper, and his successor, David the Golden One.
And suddenly, with the men appeared the archangel Gabriel and the whole host of the heavenly choir, ranks of cherubim and seraphim, all praising God and singing: “Yes, We Can.”
And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness.
The Child was blessed in looks and intellect. Scion of a simple family, offspring of a miraculous union, grandson of a typical white person and an African peasant. And yea, as he grew, the Child walked in the path of righteousness, with only the occasional detour into the odd weed and a little blow.
When he was twelve years old, they found him in the temple in the City of Chicago, arguing the finer points of community organisation with the Prophet Jeremiah and the Elders. And the Elders were astonished at what they heard and said among themselves: “Verily, who is this Child that he opens our hearts and minds to the audacity of hope?”
In the great Battles of Caucus and Primary he smote the conniving Hillary, wife of the deposed King Bill the Priapic and their barbarian hordes of Working Class Whites.
And so it was, in the fullness of time, before the harvest month of the appointed year, the Child ventured forth - for the first time - to bring the light unto all the world.
He travelled fleet of foot and light of camel, with a small retinue that consisted only of his loyal disciples from the tribe of the Media. He ventured first to the land of the Hindu Kush, where the
Taleban had harboured the viper of al-Qaeda in their bosom, raining terror on all the world.
And the Child spake and the tribes of Nato immediately loosed the Caveats that had previously bound them. And in the great battle that ensued the forces of the light were triumphant. For as long as the
Child stood with his arms raised aloft, the enemy suffered great blows and the threat of terror was no more.
From there he went forth to Mesopotamia where he was received by the great ruler al-Maliki, and al-Maliki spake unto him and blessed his Sixteen Month Troop Withdrawal Plan even as the imperial warrior Petraeus tried to destroy it.
And lo, in Mesopotamia, a miracle occurred. Even though the Great Surge of Armour that the evil Bush had ordered had been a terrible mistake, a waste of vital military resources and doomed to end in disaster, the Child's very presence suddenly brought forth a great victory for the forces of the light.
And the Persians, who saw all this and were greatly fearful, longed to speak with the Child and saw that the Child was the bringer of peace. At the mention of his name they quickly laid aside their intrigues and beat their uranium swords into civil nuclear energy ploughshares.
From there the Child went up to the city of Jerusalem, and entered through the gate seated on an ***. The crowds of network anchors who had followed him from afar cheered “Hosanna” and waved great palm fronds and strewed them at his feet.
In Jerusalem and in surrounding Palestine, the Child spake to the Hebrews and the Arabs, as the Scripture had foretold. And in an instant, the lion lay down with the lamb, and the Israelites and Ishmaelites ended their long enmity and lived for ever after in peace.
As word spread throughout the land about the Child's wondrous works, peoples from all over flocked to hear him; Hittites and Abbasids; Obamacons and McCainiacs; Cameroonians and Blairites.
And they told of strange and wondrous things that greeted the news of the Child's journey. Around the world, global temperatures began to decline, and the ocean levels fell and the great warming was over.
The Great Prophet Algore of Nobel and Oscar, who many had believed was the anointed one, smiled and told his followers that the Child was the one generations had been waiting for.
And there were other wonderful signs. In the city of the Street at the Wall, spreads on interbank interest rates dropped like manna from Heaven and rates on credit default swaps fell to the ground as dead birds from the almond tree, and the people who had lived in foreclosure were able to borrow again.
Black gold gushed from the ground at prices well below $140 per barrel. In hospitals across the land the sick were cured even though they were uninsured. And all because the Child had pronounced it.
And this is the testimony of one who speaks the truth and bears witness to the truth so that you might believe. And he knows it is the truth for he saw it all on CNN and the BBC and in the pages of The New York Times.
Then the Child ventured forth from Israel and Palestine and stepped onto the shores of the Old Continent. In the land of Queen Angela of Merkel, vast multitudes gathered to hear his voice, and he preached to them at length.
But when he had finished speaking his disciples told him the crowd was hungry, for they had had nothing to eat all the hours they had waited for him.
And so the Child told his disciples to fetch some food but all they had was five loaves and a couple of frankfurters. So he took the bread and the frankfurters and blessed them and told his disciples to feed the multitudes. And when all had eaten their fill, the scraps filled twelve baskets.
Thence he travelled west to Mount Sarkozy. Even the beauteous Princess Carla of the tribe of the Bruni was struck by awe and she was great in love with the Child, but he was tempted not.
On the Seventh Day he walked across the Channel of the Angles to the ancient land of the hooligans. There he was welcomed with open arms by the once great prophet Blair and his successor, Gordon the Leper, and his successor, David the Golden One.
And suddenly, with the men appeared the archangel Gabriel and the whole host of the heavenly choir, ranks of cherubim and seraphim, all praising God and singing: “Yes, We Can.”
Re: News of today..... (confedup)
Distractions for Obama in Berlin by Suzanne Fields
The Germans were ecstatic when Barack Obama landed in Berlin. They called him the "American Idol," a political superstar they expected to walk on the River Spree. He didn't walk on water, but he didn't disappoint. He promised to remake the world where everybody would love everybody.
"There is a sort of 'Obamamania' in Germany right now," says an aide in German Chancellor Angela Merkel's office, "but I think a lot of people will have their illusions shattered if he does become president."
He's a novelty who causes skeptics to suggest he paraphrase JFK's famous boast at the Berlin Wall: "Ich bin ein beginner." He draws admiration as much for not being George W. as for being the first black presumptive nominee for president.
Europeans, like many Americans, are besotted by sentiment, basing their judgment on what they feel, not what they know. He sounds like he's running for president of the world. The candidate strings words together with enormous flair, but his speeches sound better than they read. The words dazzle, but lack precision. The cadences make music, but music marred by occasional false notes. He complains that his audiences lack focus and are easily distracted, but the real trick is in his rhetoric.
In prescribing more troops for the war in Afghanistan, he calls Iraq a "dangerous distraction." Iraq is dangerous but not a distraction. Iraq, in fact, is a less dangerous place than it was before the surge, which John McCain supported and Obama did not. (When he had the chance, he voted against sending more troops to Afghanistan, too.)
When his campaign suggested that he might speak at the Brandenburg Gate, and he switched to the nearby Victory Column, he said he didn't want the setting to be a distraction. But an appearance at the Brandenburg Gate wouldn't distract so much as reflect his chutzpah. He forced Merkel into the schoolmarm mode, to raise an eyebrow at the choice the chancellor called "odd" for a candidate who was not yet wearing a president's breeches.
William Safire, the New York Times word maven, examined the language he calls "Obamese" and observes that the candidate's use of the word "distraction" smacks of being "defensive," as if criticism is a "diversion of attention" rather than an attempt to gain insight into the man and his message.
Obama's rhetoric is refreshing after George W. Bush's tangled syntax and mangled sentences. His word comfort contrasts favorably with John McCain's bluntness in the awkward cadences of an old soldier. But speeches are not spontaneous, they're carefully crafted and can hide a multitude of sins. The poet John Milton, the most educated man of his time, intentionally wrote dull speeches unenlivened with simile and metaphor when delivered by the character of God in "Paradise Lost." He gave Satan the florid eloquence to persuade and beguile, expecting his readers to understand that he was showing how words can deceive.
When Hillary Clinton realized she was losing to Obama, she scoffed at his rhetoric. "There's a big difference between us," she said, "speeches versus solution, talk versus action. ... Words are cheap." But words can be expensive, too, depending on their weight and meaning. Words can be golden or merely gold-plated, and there's the rub.
If you should wear Obama words as a necklace, you should expect your neck to turn green. It's the tarnish now beginning to dull the glitter that's driving the cult crazy. The European cultists may soon be disillusioned with a "wiggle-room" candidate who "nuances" his positions on troop withdrawals from Iraq and changes "no preconditions" to "preparations" for meeting with Iran. The golden-tongued seducer may turn out to be an alchemist playing tricks with base metal.
When William Jennings Bryan, at 36 the youngest man to be nominated for president, delivered his "Cross of Gold" speech at the Democratic National Convention at the old Chicago Coliseum in 1896, the Democrats thought their "Boy Orator of the Platte" was irresistible, unstoppable and inevitable. So did the Republicans. The crowds were frenzied and passionate. He was the candidate of change, "the man we have been waiting for." William McKinley, the experienced war hero, had a quieter campaign style, and invited voters to his home in Canton, Ohio, to listen to him speak from the front porch.
When a man sent Bryan a rabbit's foot for good luck, soon others did, too, and thousands of rabbits lost their feet. "If all the people who have given me rabbits' feet in the campaign will vote for me, " the candidate said, "there is no possible doubt of my election." In the end, there weren't enough rabbits.
The German movie director Wim Wenders used the polished red marble of the Victory monument as a setting for his "Wings of Desire," about an angel who is reduced to mere mortal. Barack Obama might retire to a friendly front porch to reflect on whether there might be a lesson here.
The Germans were ecstatic when Barack Obama landed in Berlin. They called him the "American Idol," a political superstar they expected to walk on the River Spree. He didn't walk on water, but he didn't disappoint. He promised to remake the world where everybody would love everybody.
"There is a sort of 'Obamamania' in Germany right now," says an aide in German Chancellor Angela Merkel's office, "but I think a lot of people will have their illusions shattered if he does become president."
He's a novelty who causes skeptics to suggest he paraphrase JFK's famous boast at the Berlin Wall: "Ich bin ein beginner." He draws admiration as much for not being George W. as for being the first black presumptive nominee for president.
Europeans, like many Americans, are besotted by sentiment, basing their judgment on what they feel, not what they know. He sounds like he's running for president of the world. The candidate strings words together with enormous flair, but his speeches sound better than they read. The words dazzle, but lack precision. The cadences make music, but music marred by occasional false notes. He complains that his audiences lack focus and are easily distracted, but the real trick is in his rhetoric.
In prescribing more troops for the war in Afghanistan, he calls Iraq a "dangerous distraction." Iraq is dangerous but not a distraction. Iraq, in fact, is a less dangerous place than it was before the surge, which John McCain supported and Obama did not. (When he had the chance, he voted against sending more troops to Afghanistan, too.)
When his campaign suggested that he might speak at the Brandenburg Gate, and he switched to the nearby Victory Column, he said he didn't want the setting to be a distraction. But an appearance at the Brandenburg Gate wouldn't distract so much as reflect his chutzpah. He forced Merkel into the schoolmarm mode, to raise an eyebrow at the choice the chancellor called "odd" for a candidate who was not yet wearing a president's breeches.
William Safire, the New York Times word maven, examined the language he calls "Obamese" and observes that the candidate's use of the word "distraction" smacks of being "defensive," as if criticism is a "diversion of attention" rather than an attempt to gain insight into the man and his message.
Obama's rhetoric is refreshing after George W. Bush's tangled syntax and mangled sentences. His word comfort contrasts favorably with John McCain's bluntness in the awkward cadences of an old soldier. But speeches are not spontaneous, they're carefully crafted and can hide a multitude of sins. The poet John Milton, the most educated man of his time, intentionally wrote dull speeches unenlivened with simile and metaphor when delivered by the character of God in "Paradise Lost." He gave Satan the florid eloquence to persuade and beguile, expecting his readers to understand that he was showing how words can deceive.
When Hillary Clinton realized she was losing to Obama, she scoffed at his rhetoric. "There's a big difference between us," she said, "speeches versus solution, talk versus action. ... Words are cheap." But words can be expensive, too, depending on their weight and meaning. Words can be golden or merely gold-plated, and there's the rub.
If you should wear Obama words as a necklace, you should expect your neck to turn green. It's the tarnish now beginning to dull the glitter that's driving the cult crazy. The European cultists may soon be disillusioned with a "wiggle-room" candidate who "nuances" his positions on troop withdrawals from Iraq and changes "no preconditions" to "preparations" for meeting with Iran. The golden-tongued seducer may turn out to be an alchemist playing tricks with base metal.
When William Jennings Bryan, at 36 the youngest man to be nominated for president, delivered his "Cross of Gold" speech at the Democratic National Convention at the old Chicago Coliseum in 1896, the Democrats thought their "Boy Orator of the Platte" was irresistible, unstoppable and inevitable. So did the Republicans. The crowds were frenzied and passionate. He was the candidate of change, "the man we have been waiting for." William McKinley, the experienced war hero, had a quieter campaign style, and invited voters to his home in Canton, Ohio, to listen to him speak from the front porch.
When a man sent Bryan a rabbit's foot for good luck, soon others did, too, and thousands of rabbits lost their feet. "If all the people who have given me rabbits' feet in the campaign will vote for me, " the candidate said, "there is no possible doubt of my election." In the end, there weren't enough rabbits.
The German movie director Wim Wenders used the polished red marble of the Victory monument as a setting for his "Wings of Desire," about an angel who is reduced to mere mortal. Barack Obama might retire to a friendly front porch to reflect on whether there might be a lesson here.
Re: News of today..... (confedup)
HAPPY FRIDAY
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WDRacing
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Re: News of today..... (confedup)
Thank you sir...very good reading.
Before this starts out into a Obama vs McCain thread...please stay on topic. This is souly about one person, Obama, and his idea's for spending our money. DO NOT RUIN THIS THREAD with ugly statements and biased views simply because you like or dislike a person.
What can we do to stop such outright awful expenditures? Who can we call/email?
WD
Before this starts out into a Obama vs McCain thread...please stay on topic. This is souly about one person, Obama, and his idea's for spending our money. DO NOT RUIN THIS THREAD with ugly statements and biased views simply because you like or dislike a person.
What can we do to stop such outright awful expenditures? Who can we call/email?
WD
Re: News of today..... (confedup)
That's poetry cornfed.
Did I miss the part about the King's coronation? The coronation ball in Washington and how he stood before the masses and promised change, change from the evil king and his henchmen. Did you mention the part where he promised to save us and our beloved land from the old man of the desert?
900 billion, is that all. Let's do the math. Each American citizen now shares in a national debt. The individual amount is a little over 31,000. Let's add the 10,000 share from the 3 to 5 Trillion dollars the Iraq war has added, and the 2500 this plan will add. That's what, a $43,500+ debt for every breathing American? The interest alone on that would be what, $3000 per year?
Did I miss the part about the King's coronation? The coronation ball in Washington and how he stood before the masses and promised change, change from the evil king and his henchmen. Did you mention the part where he promised to save us and our beloved land from the old man of the desert?
900 billion, is that all. Let's do the math. Each American citizen now shares in a national debt. The individual amount is a little over 31,000. Let's add the 10,000 share from the 3 to 5 Trillion dollars the Iraq war has added, and the 2500 this plan will add. That's what, a $43,500+ debt for every breathing American? The interest alone on that would be what, $3000 per year?
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WDRacing
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Re: News of today..... (rn79870)
What does that even mean? Because we already owe money why not owe a little more?rn79870 wrote:That's poetry cornfed.
Did I miss the part about the King's coronation? The coronation ball in Washington and how he stood before the masses and promised change, change from the evil king and his henchmen. Did you mention the part where he promised to save us and our beloved land from the old man of the desert?
900 billion, is that all. Let's do the math. Each American citizen now shares in a national debt. The individual amount is a little over 31,000. Let's add the 10,000 share from the 3 to 5 Trillion dollars the Iraq war has added, and the 2500 this plan will add. That's what, a $43,500+ debt for every breathing American? The interest alone on that would be what, $3000 per year?
Are you actually for taking our taxes and giving them out globally even though we are in a recession? Because what you just posted basically says so...
Re: News of today..... (WDRacing)
Actually it was meant as a jab at the $10,000 Iraq will costs each of us, (which no one seem very upset about), compared to the $2500 that Obama's plan would cost. One quarter the expense with a benefit to mankind, vs. 4 times as much with little or no benefit to anyone.
Frankly, I'd rather see neither debt, but, to put things in perspective, I'd rather buy rice for developing countries than bullets for Iraq. I don't think his plan has a prayer of passing.
Frankly, I'd rather see neither debt, but, to put things in perspective, I'd rather buy rice for developing countries than bullets for Iraq. I don't think his plan has a prayer of passing.
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WDRacing
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Re: News of today..... (rn79870)
But we AREN'T for staying in Iraq. We aren't happy with money spent in Iraq...but in case you didn't know...yeah, we spent it already. We're discussing future spending. So you're either FOR or AGAINST taking our taxes and giving them our globally. Stop dissembling...Iraq has nothing to do with this, nor does what you'd rather spend money on. Especially since you think Obama is going to have us out of Iraq in 16 months...so your entire point is moot. Since he'll need to be in office to remove the troops AND take my sons money and send it to other countries.rn79870 wrote:Actually it was meant as a jab at the $10,000 Iraq will costs each of us, (which no one seem very upset about), compared to the $2500 that Obama's plan would cost. One quarter the expense with a benefit to mankind, vs. 4 times as much with little or no benefit to anyone.
Frankly, I'd rather see neither debt, but, to put things in perspective, I'd rather buy rice for developing countries than bullets for Iraq. I don't think his plan has a prayer of passing.
So which is it Bob...for or against?
Re: News of today..... (WDRacing)
The problem Brian, is that Iraq has cost about .6 Trillion dollars so far, with a projected overall cost of from 3 to 5 Trillion, depending on how long this goes on. Part of that amount includes care for returning vets and long term care for injured vets, as well as replacing equipment, etc. So, no, we didn't already spend the money. Now, back on topic, like I said, I doubt Obama's plan has a chance of passing considering the overall economic situation.WDRacing wrote:
But we AREN'T for staying in Iraq. We aren't happy with money spent in Iraq...but in case you didn't know...yeah, we spent it already....So which is it Bob...for or against?
Re: News of today..... (rn79870)
... and once again, the subject drifts away....
Confedup, I'm with you on the uselessness of foreign aid, especially to fight poverty. Poverty is caused by governments for their own selfish interests. When you give poverty aid, the governments benefit, not the starving.
But that $845 Billion, $2500 per citizen figure is spread over 13 years. Why 13, of all numbers, I wonder. Anyway, that's $200/yr - small change. I'm against it, but I'm not gonna get my underwear all in a knot over it.
Confedup, I'm with you on the uselessness of foreign aid, especially to fight poverty. Poverty is caused by governments for their own selfish interests. When you give poverty aid, the governments benefit, not the starving.
But that $845 Billion, $2500 per citizen figure is spread over 13 years. Why 13, of all numbers, I wonder. Anyway, that's $200/yr - small change. I'm against it, but I'm not gonna get my underwear all in a knot over it.
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Re: News of today..... (96Qowner)
Sorry, but that is NOT small change. I am currently unemployed, having been laid of from the pharmaceutical industry. $15-20 a month when we've got two little girls at home is huge for us right now. We are barely getting by on what my wife makes but if I don't get back to work in the next few months we lose the car, the house, and who knows what else. I want that $15 a month and a job HERE, not for the Chinese factory worker whose providing all that tainted stuff to Wal-Mart so Wal-Mart's fat-cat executives can get richer and shaft the American worker even more.96Qowner wrote:... and once again, the subject drifts away.... Anyway, that's $200/yr - small change. I'm against it, but I'm not gonna get my underwear all in a knot over it.
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WDRacing
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Re: News of today..... (srellim234)
Friggin WERD I don't even buy stuff for my Son from WallyWorld anymore...made in China = lead contaminants.srellim234 wrote:
Sorry, but that is NOT small change. I am currently unemployed, having been laid of from the pharmaceutical industry. $15-20 a month when we've got two little girls at home is huge for us right now. We are barely getting by on what my wife makes but if I don't get back to work in the next few months we lose the car, the house, and who knows what else. I want that $15 a month and a job HERE, not for the Chinese factory worker whose providing all that tainted stuff to Wal-Mart so Wal-Mart's fat-cat executives can get richer and shaft the American worker even more.
The whole point is simple really...It's my damn money they are taking and giving away. If you wanna doc the Senate pay and do this...by all means go ahead. But stop taking MY money and giving it to someone else. Sorry their life sucks, but I simply DO NOT GIVE A CRAP. I am all about taking care of MY family.
This is the number 1 reason I'll never back a Liberal candidate...ever.
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srellim234
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Re: News of today..... (WDRacing)
Don't get me started on that side, either. It's your "conservative" legislators that have turned a blind eye on the needy in this country, taking all the money and figuring out ways to destroy the little guy while the fat cats get fatter. They give away the money AND the jobs. We have "tax and spend" Democrats and "mortgage and spend" Republicans. Either way, the average American loses.WDRacing wrote:This is the number 1 reason I'll never back a Liberal candidate...ever.
Re: News of today..... (96Qowner)
Poverty...is...caused...by...governments...for...their...own...selfish...interests96Qowner wrote:
Confedup, I'm with you on the uselessness of foreign aid, especially to fight poverty. Poverty is caused by governments for their own selfish interests. When you give poverty aid, the governments benefit, not the starving.
Okay, I read that slowly, several times, and the only comment I have is how do you come up with these ideas? They are certainly unique and original.
Re: News of today..... (rn79870)
Bob, if you're ignorant and want help learning, please try to do it without the veiled sarcasm, hm?
I just Googled quickly because I already understand the process of government induced starvation and poverty, but here's a confirmation.
The causes of starvation are complex, but there are some common threads that seem to be associated with this problem. First and foremost, starvation is caused by poverty. To address the problem of world hunger then the problem of global poverty must be addressed. Therefore, the question that we should examine is what are the causes of poverty. A thorough discussion on the causes of global poverty is outside the purview of this article. Entire textbooks have been written on the subject. For our discussion, it is suffice to say that one of the major causes of poverty is governments pursuing policies that inhibit self sufficiency.
http://healthy-charity.com/art...r.php
In Africa and southeast Asia, it's usually predatory governments immersed in corruption that cause a humanitarian crisis in order to make their opponents suffer, which bring gobs of money from altruistic Western governments. it's a win-win situation.
I know it's counter intuitive, but if you really want to learn, and not just argue with new ideas and thoughts, I'm sure you can Google enough stuff to get the true picture. That is, if you keep an open mind.
INDIA: Corruption causes starvation in Musahar community in Varanasi, Uttar Pradesh
http://www.foodjustice.net/ha/...t=yes
WTO cartel cause more starvation, suffering and death
http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0407
Third World Debt Causes Starvation & Poverty
http://www.trueconspiracies.com/debt.htm
Riots, starvation and a coup. Whatever happened to those G8 promises on Africa? PDF Print E-mail
Until Africa gets leaders that are accountable to their own people, nothing much will change
http://www.royalafricansociety...=view
The military situation shows no sign of improvement in either province. Following an attempted coup against Mengistu by members of his own army last May, the government opened peace negotiations with the secessionist Eritrean People's Liberation Front. They arranged a cease-fire, but a subsequent round of talks ended in stalemate last November without any agreement for the movement of food to drought-stricken areas.
http://www.time.com/time/magaz....html
Etc .....
[Edit] Here's another of my wild and wacky ideas: The Sun doesn't actually revolve around the Earth. The reason the Sun rises in the East and crosses the sky to the West is because the Earth itself revolves - the Sun stays in one place.
I just Googled quickly because I already understand the process of government induced starvation and poverty, but here's a confirmation.
The causes of starvation are complex, but there are some common threads that seem to be associated with this problem. First and foremost, starvation is caused by poverty. To address the problem of world hunger then the problem of global poverty must be addressed. Therefore, the question that we should examine is what are the causes of poverty. A thorough discussion on the causes of global poverty is outside the purview of this article. Entire textbooks have been written on the subject. For our discussion, it is suffice to say that one of the major causes of poverty is governments pursuing policies that inhibit self sufficiency.
http://healthy-charity.com/art...r.php
In Africa and southeast Asia, it's usually predatory governments immersed in corruption that cause a humanitarian crisis in order to make their opponents suffer, which bring gobs of money from altruistic Western governments. it's a win-win situation.
I know it's counter intuitive, but if you really want to learn, and not just argue with new ideas and thoughts, I'm sure you can Google enough stuff to get the true picture. That is, if you keep an open mind.
INDIA: Corruption causes starvation in Musahar community in Varanasi, Uttar Pradesh
http://www.foodjustice.net/ha/...t=yes
WTO cartel cause more starvation, suffering and death
http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0407
Third World Debt Causes Starvation & Poverty
http://www.trueconspiracies.com/debt.htm
Riots, starvation and a coup. Whatever happened to those G8 promises on Africa? PDF Print E-mail
Until Africa gets leaders that are accountable to their own people, nothing much will change
http://www.royalafricansociety...=view
The military situation shows no sign of improvement in either province. Following an attempted coup against Mengistu by members of his own army last May, the government opened peace negotiations with the secessionist Eritrean People's Liberation Front. They arranged a cease-fire, but a subsequent round of talks ended in stalemate last November without any agreement for the movement of food to drought-stricken areas.
http://www.time.com/time/magaz....html
Etc .....
[Edit] Here's another of my wild and wacky ideas: The Sun doesn't actually revolve around the Earth. The reason the Sun rises in the East and crosses the sky to the West is because the Earth itself revolves - the Sun stays in one place.
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srellim234
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Re: News of today..... (rn79870)
....and correct in a lot of instances. Not necessarily 100% of the time, but right a lot of the time. Keep people struggling for their existence and they won't have time to deal with a corrupt government.
Good rice for hurricane victims in Myanmar being redirected to government warehouses while the people who got anything got moldy and mildewed stuff.
Oil for food in Iraq that made Saddam more powerful and never got aid to the people.
Providing breaks and subsidies for big industries like farming in this country the majority of which is done by big clongomerates, all the while knowing that those same businesses are hiring illegals under the table for less than minimum wage and what little money those people save by living 20 to a house is being mailed out of the country. I don't necessarily agree with the concept of a minimum wage, but if we're going to have it, have it across the board for everyon. If food prices rise, so be it.
We've got thousands of people being put out of work in this country, and the government continues to force you and I to pay for the war in Iraq instead of demanding that those oil wells be used to reimburse us on an ongoing basis. Why? So big business (ExxonMobil, Chevron, etc.) can make huge amounts of money later and leave the small American taxpayer paying for it all.
Good rice for hurricane victims in Myanmar being redirected to government warehouses while the people who got anything got moldy and mildewed stuff.
Oil for food in Iraq that made Saddam more powerful and never got aid to the people.
Providing breaks and subsidies for big industries like farming in this country the majority of which is done by big clongomerates, all the while knowing that those same businesses are hiring illegals under the table for less than minimum wage and what little money those people save by living 20 to a house is being mailed out of the country. I don't necessarily agree with the concept of a minimum wage, but if we're going to have it, have it across the board for everyon. If food prices rise, so be it.
We've got thousands of people being put out of work in this country, and the government continues to force you and I to pay for the war in Iraq instead of demanding that those oil wells be used to reimburse us on an ongoing basis. Why? So big business (ExxonMobil, Chevron, etc.) can make huge amounts of money later and leave the small American taxpayer paying for it all.
Re: News of today..... (srellim234)
Thanks for the confirmation, Steve.
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skylndrftr
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I wouldn't take world news of the net really all that seriously...they sell some of the more 'ahem' unique bumper stickers I have ever seen including...
"sshhh! Don't tell Darwin... Science has evolved"
"Let my people DRILL!"
and its worth pointing out that I tend to dismiss arguements from any members of the 'Confederate party of Virginia'
"sshhh! Don't tell Darwin... Science has evolved"
"Let my people DRILL!"
and its worth pointing out that I tend to dismiss arguements from any members of the 'Confederate party of Virginia'
Re: News of today..... (96Qowner)
Your statement was carelessly broad and misleading. I pointed that out and you google a few examples of corrupt governments and christian type aid falling to criminal activities ans now were suppose to believe Poverty is caused by governments for their own selfish interests
Let me correct this for you...
There are a few occasions where poverty has been caused by a government for its own selfish interest.
That I wouldn't argue with.
I really don't follow your logic except to think that you're trying to say that governments want poverty so they can appreciate a gain and their people can starve (or have poverty).Is that close?
Let me correct this for you...
There are a few occasions where poverty has been caused by a government for its own selfish interest.
That I wouldn't argue with.
Tell me that's not so overly broad as to be ridiculous. You find one example of spoiled rice, and another example of Saddam (a known thief) hording food and you're ready to assume it applies to every government, or every people that have received aid.96Qowner wrote: When you give poverty aid, the governments benefit, not the starving.
I really don't follow your logic except to think that you're trying to say that governments want poverty so they can appreciate a gain and their people can starve (or have poverty).Is that close?
I really appreciate your creative interpretation of world events. Inasmuch as they are not likely to ever be reported in the mainline media.96Qowner wrote:I know it's counter intuitive, but if you really want to learn, and not just argue with new ideas and thoughts, I'm sure you can Google enough stuff to get the true picture. That is, if you keep an open mind.
Actually, I'll go off topic here too to point out that the sun is far from stationary. It and the entire solar system is orbiting around the center of our MilkyWay Galaxy. Based on a distance of 30,000 light years (from the center of the galaxy to our solar system) and a speed of 220 km/s, the Sun orbits around the center of the Milky Way once every 225 million years. See how dangerous it can be to make things up?96Qowner wrote:Here's another of my wild and wacky ideas: The Sun doesn't actually revolve around the Earth. The reason the Sun rises in the East and crosses the sky to the West is because the Earth itself revolves - the Sun stays in one place.
Re: News of today..... (srellim234)
Why, it's only costing your family, and every other American family 100 dollars per day? That's over $3,000 per month, per family. Yet try recommending that the war terminate and the troops come home and see how many want that to happen.srellim234 wrote:We've got thousands of people being put out of work in this country, and the government continues to force you and I to pay for the war in Iraq instead of demanding that those oil wells be used to reimburse us on an ongoing basis. Why? So big business (ExxonMobil, Chevron, etc.) can make huge amounts of money later and leave the small American taxpayer paying for it all.
You're closer than 96 is with your "in a lot of instances." That's far from the wide brush 96 used therefore, hardly an endorsement. Sure, there are corrupt people in the world who profit off others misery. However, unlike the picture 96 paints, it is probably the exception rather than the rule.srellim234 wrote:....and correct in a lot of instances. Not necessarily 100% of the time, but right a lot of the time. Keep people struggling for their existence and they won't have time to deal with a corrupt government.
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srellim234
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Re: (skylndrftr)
Does that mean we get to ignore any links you provide in future discussions?skylndrftr wrote:I wouldn't take world news of the net really all that seriously...
Heck, I don't believe over half of what I see in the news OFF the 'net. Even the organizations that call themselves news all seem to have narrow, specific agendas and fabricate stuff to fit it. Look at Fox, MSNBC and Tribune newspapers. They don't see truth as a responsibility. It only gets in the way of the $$$ on the bottom line.
Re: (skylndrftr)
Without understanding the agenda of many of those "sites" it's pretty hard to assign any validity to them.skylndrftr wrote:I wouldn't take world news of the net really all that seriously...they sell some of the more 'ahem' unique bumper stickers I have ever seen including...
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WDRacing
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Re: (rn79870)
Until threads can be discussed and stay on topic I'm fvcking done here...
Out of control...off topic...dissembling...yeah...I'm done.
Out of control...off topic...dissembling...yeah...I'm done.
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skylndrftr
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Re: (srellim234)
No, when I speak, its my opinion. I don't represent it as fact (despite how impressed I am with the sound of my own voice). However when I do state facts I tend to reference things like the text of bills or the AP or reasonably well researched and authoritative sources. The things posted by confedup aren't facts, they are quite opinion. Opinions are wonderful...unless they misstate facts figures and just about every possible interpretation of anythign they discuss.srellim234 wrote:Does that mean we get to ignore any links you provide in future discussions?
AZ mentioned in another thread that every Obama bash gets tossed out by those planning on voting for him...well theres a reason.
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srellim234
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Re: (skylndrftr)
That's why I poked and winked; I couldn't resist.
WD, I'll just relate from my experiences growing up and and leave it at that. In every social setting, discussions on any topic tend to get diverted and eventually wind up back on topic. People in those circles who are so linear that they can't be flexible enough to flow along tend to be left out as they tend not to be great conversationalists. We have a group of families that have been getting together socially once a month for over 10 years and one guy in the group is that way. Totally fixates on a subject and then wants to beat it to death. No variation allowed. Nobody wants to deal with him any more, but his wife and son are great so we put up with his presence.
It's that way, too, with the people here that try to turn every stinking subject into a McCain or Obama crusade, positive or negative. They are being way too antisocial and small-minded.
I can put up with some hijacking in these threads only because I know eventually it will come back on topic. If it doesn't, the new topic must mean more to the individuals discussing it or it would have reverted back. The variations often have the benefit of providing levity and they often provide some mental exercise to keep up.
I apologize for any off the topic remarks I've made if they really upset you, but I'm only reacting in the way I would, complete with sarcastic comments, as if we were all sitting around a patio table at a barbecue.
No candidates were bashed in the delivery of my comments. No animals were injured in the making of this post, either.
OK, enough of that. I agree with you. The money should stay here and take care of Americans. Wars on poverty don't work. They just lead to inflationary pricing when more people have more money. It's covered in every Economics 101 textbook.
WD, I'll just relate from my experiences growing up and and leave it at that. In every social setting, discussions on any topic tend to get diverted and eventually wind up back on topic. People in those circles who are so linear that they can't be flexible enough to flow along tend to be left out as they tend not to be great conversationalists. We have a group of families that have been getting together socially once a month for over 10 years and one guy in the group is that way. Totally fixates on a subject and then wants to beat it to death. No variation allowed. Nobody wants to deal with him any more, but his wife and son are great so we put up with his presence.
It's that way, too, with the people here that try to turn every stinking subject into a McCain or Obama crusade, positive or negative. They are being way too antisocial and small-minded.
I can put up with some hijacking in these threads only because I know eventually it will come back on topic. If it doesn't, the new topic must mean more to the individuals discussing it or it would have reverted back. The variations often have the benefit of providing levity and they often provide some mental exercise to keep up.
I apologize for any off the topic remarks I've made if they really upset you, but I'm only reacting in the way I would, complete with sarcastic comments, as if we were all sitting around a patio table at a barbecue.
No candidates were bashed in the delivery of my comments. No animals were injured in the making of this post, either.
OK, enough of that. I agree with you. The money should stay here and take care of Americans. Wars on poverty don't work. They just lead to inflationary pricing when more people have more money. It's covered in every Economics 101 textbook.
We should be cutting back all of our foreign aid spending, not proposing legislation to increase it.
Our money should be invested into foreign countries through free trade, commerce, and private charities. These things will be more beneficial to a "starving, poor" country than hand outs will (in most cases).
And for those straying from the topic, we shouldn't have gone into Iraq either, although WD is correct, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. To drag other topics into the discussion only dilutes any point trying to be made.
Our money should be invested into foreign countries through free trade, commerce, and private charities. These things will be more beneficial to a "starving, poor" country than hand outs will (in most cases).
And for those straying from the topic, we shouldn't have gone into Iraq either, although WD is correct, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. To drag other topics into the discussion only dilutes any point trying to be made.
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I'm not going to read all of this, because the first few paragraphs irritated me. I WONT like the fact that some of my taxes will be given to a country who couldn't manage money in the first place. A penny goes a long way in some of those countries, they should be happy they make that amount. Besides their economy should be compared to ours. Its a worlds difference. My taxes should be going to improve my country, not anothers. If I want to donate money, I'll have a barbecue over there and feed a village, not give it to a gov't that's going to do with the money however they please, and I'm sure they aim to please their wallets and not their subjects minds, souls, and stomachs
Re: (srellim234)
You've done nothing to apologize for. Any topic spins off related sub topics that are relevant to the topic. If we didn't allow that, we'd have frustrated members here.srellim234 wrote:...I apologize for any off the topic remarks I've made if they really upset you, but I'm only reacting in the way I would, complete with sarcastic comments, as if we were all sitting around a patio table at a barbecue.
We'll follow the "reasonably related" rule here. As long as the "off track comment" is reasonably related to the OP's topic, it's fair game. Even an occasional off topic comment to make a point is fine.
To this end, Brian's comment was unnecessary and that the members of this forum have nothing to apologize for. Brian will be back soon enough.
Re: (rn79870)
A war on poverty (a condition or state of being) is like a war on terror (an ideal or belief), because you cannot fight something that is intangible.
However, I will point out that America is where it is today because of it's abundant resources. We can walk around like the big dog because we've learned to use the wealth the land has given to us. We can harvest just about any plant or mineral from this (the continental 48) geographic location and we have done so, to our own benefit. The drawback to this is that we have razed the land, and outsourced all of our manufacturing. We are no longer "blue-collar" America, we are a service driven America.
No other country in the world has the natural resources and the collective ingenuity to recreate what we've done. And, no amount of us stuffing food, money, medicines, or aide down their throats will get them to change their 1000s of years of life. Look at China, look how long it took them to modernize. Unfortunately, now we're paying for it. And, the Middle East gets to sit there and reap the benefits.
I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a smidgen here. Let's just assume that America wasn't into expansionism and we didn't want to mass consume every viable resource on the face of the planet. Where do you think the roaming nomadic Arabs would be if we didn't go over there and beg and plead with them to give us all their oil? Where do you think all the Chinese people would be today, if we didn't drive the market so haywire with all our commercial capitalism? We, as Americans, are a greedy lot. We covet what other people have, and yet we want to protect our own to the point of taking another person's life by any means necessary. And, bigger is always better (until recently) and is status quo.
We should not help the world, no. It's taken us 230 some odd years to get to where we are, and it's taken millennia for most cultures to see slight changes in daily living. If all they can pick up from the human race is the tendency to do wrong, or self-loathe; then it's a sad state and no amount of money can fix human nature.
However, I will point out that America is where it is today because of it's abundant resources. We can walk around like the big dog because we've learned to use the wealth the land has given to us. We can harvest just about any plant or mineral from this (the continental 48) geographic location and we have done so, to our own benefit. The drawback to this is that we have razed the land, and outsourced all of our manufacturing. We are no longer "blue-collar" America, we are a service driven America.
No other country in the world has the natural resources and the collective ingenuity to recreate what we've done. And, no amount of us stuffing food, money, medicines, or aide down their throats will get them to change their 1000s of years of life. Look at China, look how long it took them to modernize. Unfortunately, now we're paying for it. And, the Middle East gets to sit there and reap the benefits.
I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a smidgen here. Let's just assume that America wasn't into expansionism and we didn't want to mass consume every viable resource on the face of the planet. Where do you think the roaming nomadic Arabs would be if we didn't go over there and beg and plead with them to give us all their oil? Where do you think all the Chinese people would be today, if we didn't drive the market so haywire with all our commercial capitalism? We, as Americans, are a greedy lot. We covet what other people have, and yet we want to protect our own to the point of taking another person's life by any means necessary. And, bigger is always better (until recently) and is status quo.
We should not help the world, no. It's taken us 230 some odd years to get to where we are, and it's taken millennia for most cultures to see slight changes in daily living. If all they can pick up from the human race is the tendency to do wrong, or self-loathe; then it's a sad state and no amount of money can fix human nature.