newb all in one suspension question(s), please read! :)

[chmercer]

ok, first off, i have read both the tire and suspension faq, and many of the links in each one, and also the be warned post. so i will try to make my post fit within all thoes guidelines, please dont yell at me about my questions, i am stupid :p

My information -

-Car model/year 240sx se/1995

-price range not exactly sure as i dont really have an idea of how much the componets cost, sorry :/

-goals of the car maximum possible contact patch as much as possible, extremely good dry performance, enough wet performance to where i dont hydroplane and crash in 5 seconds hehe.

-use of car i want it to be great for autocross, but it is my daily driver as well so im not sure how that will affect stuff.

-style of wheel you like performance minded only, if they were good for my goals and use of car they could look like dirty hubcaps and i couldnt be happier hehe.

do not care about ride quality at all, noise level, etc. anything like that. (ex: ive ran my car with no pipe from the cat back for a week or 2, noise dosent bother me and it vibrates quite a bit but no problems with me) also would much prefer a focus on dry traction to wet, but again it is my daily driver so i dont want to die if it rains last thing - on ride height, deffinitley performance first but if 2 setups offer the same handling, more is better for speedbumps and whatnot. i dont care about having a lowered car because people think its cool or whatever, but if a 3" drop will get me better handling than a 1" im 100% for the big drop.

also, misc newb questions -

about rims- ssf forging = best, right? wider = larger contact patch = better. will Racing Hart CP-035 SSF 17x9.5's even fit at all? i know my rims are 6.5" wide so this would be an inch larger in diameter and 3 more in width. fitment and price aside, these rims seem to have the best rubber to the road / weight ratio.

about suspension- strut bars - i have looked at all the types of strut bars in the suspension faq; i am guessing the carbon fiber one is the best/most expensive one, but i dont think i can pay a few hundred dollars for a bolt on stick right now. can anyone suggest a front/rear combination that is rigid enough to get the job done, but dosent cost a fortune and weigh 500lbs?

what is this? - i know what springs, shocks, and swaybars are, but i am having a hard time finding out what exactly coilovers are? i have tried searching but it is all stuff like which one of this should i buy etc. could somone please explain? thankyou! also, when people say struts, do they mean strut bars or somthing else? if somthing else, then please explain this as well!

shocks, springs, coilovers, swaybars, strut bars, wheels, tires, is there any other piece of equipment that contributes to a good suspension setup? please tell me if i left anything out

THANKYOU EVERYONE WHO READS ALL MY STUPID QUESTIONS!

[christopher]

lighten your car too if you want good hand12 (sorry, cat on keyboard) handling. Ditch what you can. You have pretty much broken down what is needed for a good setup. I could be missing something too.

Bigger question, how much money are you planning to spend. All the questions are fine but answers you can't afford do you no good.

[chmercer]

ok, question on lightening - would pulling the rear seats have any noticable affect on traction, the car being rwd?

and on money, i will most likley be buying these components seperatley over an extended period, instead of in one bank account slaughtering lump. I figure why buy cheap ebay stuff when youll have to replace it later, so if you could please give me prices for mid to high range options that would be great

also if anyone has an order to follow to buy all these things, please tell me that as well.

thanks again!

[christopher]

OK one at a time I guess.

Forged wheels are usually lighter, that is considered better.

I own an S13 so I don't know about your fender clearance. You may have to cut wheelwells to fit in that tire. Are you wanting to put these tires on all four corners or just in the rear?

You don't need carbon fiber strutbars, many of them are just for show anyways. You can find cheap and good ones if you search. Try looking at the Cusco ones, I am pretty sure that a few people here have and like them.

Coilovers are a shock with a spring assembly mounted to it, usually in such a way that you can adjust the height look at this, http://www.tein.com/img/ba-ek.jpg , you see the how that looks. You can probably deduce how it works in general from that pic.

Struts= shocks (maybe there is someone better to explain this, but I think this is right.)

You need shocks and springs to work together. The spring resists the weight of your car against the road and your wheels and the strut/shock dampens the force exerted by hitting bumps and things like that. Coilovers are a combination of both springs and shocks.

[christopher]

Also, if you are autoxing, check the rulebooks because extensive suspension work will put you into more competitive classes. Consider this in your goals.

[chmercer]

Quote »Forged wheels are usually lighter, that is considered better.[/quote]

ok, forged wheels = best. 1 down.

Quote »Are you wanting to put these tires on all four corners or just in the rear?[/quote]

i dont know, do i? would it be better to have smaller tires in the front or...? im pretty much swinging in the dark about this, ive had a hard time finding definite information regarding tires relation to performance.

Quote »Coilovers are a shock with a spring assembly mounted to it, usually in such a way that you can adjust the height look at this, http://www.tein.com/img/ba-ek.jpg , you see the how that looks. You can probably deduce how it works in general from that pic[/quote]

so, coilovers takes care of both shocks and springs with one unit? no need to purchase any more springs or shocks/struts?? (just want to make absolutley sure, i am stupid after all )

ah, thankyou about the rules info, i will deffinitley read up on this.

[christopher]

Traction can be had with the right tires, they don't necesarily have to be wide, just sticky. Sticky tires are expensive but so are wide ones and if you can avoid cutting your wheelwells that may be a good thing.

Work on your weight distribution, you probably want to have a 50/50 weight distribution if you are focused on handling. That way you will have a "neutral" steering responce. In lightning your car, keep that in mind. Just lightening the rear will make oversteer a (very)slightly larger potential concern when you are pushing the limit.

[chmercer]

ah ok, with a 54/46 ratio (i think this is right for a 240?) removing from the rear would not be the best option, k. anyone know the widest wheel you can fit on a 240 without modification?

[christopher]

ok, forged wheels = best. 1 down.i dont know, do i? would it be better to have smaller tires in the front or...? im pretty much swinging in the dark about this, ive had a hard time finding definite information regarding tires relation to performance.

For autoX you probably want to have the same size wheels all around. All grip being eaqual, you will have a neutral steering responce.

Quote »so, coilovers takes care of both shocks and springs with one unit? no need to purchase any more springs or shocks/struts?? (just want to make absolutley sure, i am stupid after all ) [/quote]

No, no more springs of shocks. Coilovers can be expensive though, and you should investigate the option of just getting a set of lowering springs and sport shocks. You don't get the height adjustability, but maybe you don't need it. That may be the cheaper route.

[chmercer]

ah yes, thats true, now that i think about it, small front tires is a drag setup :P

hrm, how would one benefit from height adjustability? sorry, there is quite a bit i dont understand, so please try your best to put up with my dumb questions

[christopher]

I highly recomend that you search a bit more. I am not the smartest person here and everysingle question you have asked has been answered before. The FAQ is good, but most all of that info was pulled from this forums "search" function.

Hopefully this stuff has helped. Like I said, I am far from the expert.

[christopher]

Height adjustability effects your center of gravity.

Lower=more stable in corners. But be practical.

Think about SUVs, they are high, so they roll over.

[chmercer]

ah ok, so low as possible without smashing on speedbumps and curbs every 5 minutes

[christopher]

Trial and error my friend, trail and error. Many people in this world have cracked front bumpers and worse. The advantage of a coilover is that on the street you can set it high, to clear those obstacles. Then on the track, you can drop it in just a few minutes and race with a better center of gravity.

[christopher]

-price range not exactly sure as i dont really have an idea of how much the componets cost, sorry :/

The FAQ can help you there, most of the suspension manufacturers have prices listed, or at least vendors listed.

[christopher]

anything else dawg? I am going to bed.

[chmercer]

haha naw man, thanks, gnight

[christopher]

night night....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Dori Dori]

Forged wheels are usually lighter, that is considered better.

How about stronger too.

Also, the main reason for coilovers is corner balancing (or corner weighing)! With that ability, you can alter your car's weight distribution. Also, they give you the ability to change spring rates easily and cheaply. Another bonus is the the highest end coilovers are aluminum and that reduces unsprung weight.

If you don't want to spend the money on coilovers, you can purchase aftermarket struts and coilover sleeve kits so you can still get height adjustability (if it's important to you). Companies like Ground Control can supply you with kits based on whatever struts you plan on purchasing (KYB, Koni, ect). Ground Control also gives you the option of selecting your own spring rates. This kind of setup won't be as 'good' as the full coilovers, but you get a much more streetable ride (as long as you don't go too crazy with those spring rates) because you are using struts valved with comfort in mind. You don't care about that anyway, but I have a feeling you've never ridden in a car with a set of coilovers like Tein RA's or Jic FLTA2's... Moving along...

Ok, suspension components. The 240 has a strut based suspension in the front with tension rods and a quasi-double wishbone suspension in the rear consisting of upper control arms, lower control arms, foward links, and lower links (unless you have a HICAS car and then you'd have tie rods). You're gonna want to upgrade those bushings to at least poly and maybe you'll even want to purchase adjustable rods w/ spherical bushings if you want to go hard-core. The most important bushings will be those tension rods in the front b/c they have a huge hollow rubber bushing filled with goo that has probably leaked out.

What about brakes? I know you want to race so that should be important to you. For what you plan on doing, swapping your fronts with Z32 calipers and redrilled rotors would be your best bet. Get them with some SS lines, some good pads, and good fluid and you'll be set. Don't worry about the rears.

Anyway, good luck to you.

[chmercer]

can anyone suggest a good suspension setup for my goals? 1k would be a good price to stay close to, but please list anything you can as my car will be upgraded paycheck to paycheck

[Exar-Kun]

OK, Imma try to break this down...-REad everything dori said.-Wheels: the largest front wheel you can run(most likely) and clear coilovers, is a 18x8(without fender flares) in a 25mm offset or so....for the rear an 18x9 in a 30mm offset will fit, but may require fender flares...anything larger will most definatley need them.

Forging=good, but its not an end-all. a forged wheel is not necessarily lighter than a cast one, although 9 out of ten times, its stronger(if its the same material), a lot of the weight/strength can be atributed to design and materials of the wheels.

-suspension things:Strut bars can be had from 50 dollars a peice to 200 a peice, depending on the materials and quality. If you want a "bang-for-buck" item, get a cusco "D" or "OS" series alluminum bar front and rear(should be aboue 200-300 for the set of two).

Bushings will increase your handling dramatically, and like dori said you may(like myself and he) look into getting them replaced with spheircal pillow-ball or heim joints.

IN the 1k price range, not many coilovers are available. I would check into a set of G/C sleeves ina spring rate of 8kg/mm front an 6kg/mm rear with some adjustable shocks, such as koni ylelows or KYB AGX, this will allow you to adjust the dampning and ride height to suite both the car and you, without the expense of a coilover, and that spring rate shouldbe plenty stiff for autocrossing...

Tires, check into the falken azenis, yokohama parada spec-2, or the bridgestone s-03 or any pirelli Pzero and the like for a nice dry grip tire.... Running the same tire size all the way around can help 2 ways, you get the same contact patch f/r and you can rotate your tires for a bit longer life. However, many people, including myself, when you lighten the car and modify it, it can easily go from under-steer to oversteer, in which case, a slightly larger rear contact patch can help the situation....but that will come later.

check the FAQ's, and dont hesitate to ask more questions. thanks for reading my bulletin on what to post when you do.-chet

[christopher]

See, I knew I wasn't the smartest one here.