New trans & motor mounts, and you can't have none, cause your Mama's on Welfare.

[HeavyDuty]

Whew! My old ones were really bad.

So I have to still do plugs & valve cover gasket, plug well gaskets, pcv valve.....I think that's it. Those parts I have.

Is it true that the 90-91's, or <93's etc had no valve cover gasket and just an RTV bead, save for the plug well O-rings?

While *I am* the shadow of the valley of death, and if the lower plenum hoses are 2-3 yrs old, and there are no indicated knock sensor issues, nor injector issues, even if I have 4 brand new injectors & would only need 4 more & a new sub harness plus a hose kit to make everything good up top.........should I wait & do all that, or skip the KS, inj, & hoses if they're ok? (168k mi 91 base)

In other words, how much of a beyotch is a vc reseal vs going in whole hog?

TIA

[Jesda]

Did you notice dramatically less vibration?

[HeavyDuty]

Put it this way, Jes. The new ones were cone shaped, the old ones (1) was flat & cracked, the (2) was concave in relation.

I could tell the moment I turned the key, can't wait for a 120mi trip tomorrow morning.

[squeefoo]

Yo dog, solid RTV on the VCG's, you don't have to R&R the plenum for that (maybe the TB extension). No gasket on the plug well extensions (on mine -90) as well, no O-Rings, just RTV. All else I'd wait, In the stead of whole hog. VC reseal is a piece of cake in comparo a plenum yank on top of it all. Just buy new plugs from ElWesso first, in case they are suspect. I paid ~$80 for plugs before I knew how good a deal he had. I really hate to sound so cliche, but "if it aint broke; don't fix it"

PS: Have fun driving around!PSS: Cute Eddie Murpy reference. I remember it well - "Wanna lick - Psyche!!" Just made my kid watch it -"Why does Daddy always say that??" Are we getting old?
Modified by squeefoo at 1:57 AM 11/24/2004

[HeavyDuty]

I get such bad info from my local Infiniti dealer if what you're saying is true. But at the same time I hope you're right about not blowing it all apart.

I was hoping someone would get the Eddie Murphy reference and not just think I was drunk & rambling again.

And, yes, we're still gettting old.

I got a strange look the other day when I said "Homey don't play that." too.

[pito11213]

Yes Heavy Duty the valve cover seals are RTV seal. Wes has told me numerous times that it is an easy job and I should do it my self.

I also agree with waiting for the injectors it is usually a problem that you will get warning signs of.

Did you do the mounts yourself? I was thinking of getting this done just how hard was it? What did it involve?

By the way the old Eddie Murphy was the man. The new commercial version is ok.

[911/Q45]

Don't forget the half moon seals at the rear of the cam covers, 2 for each side.

[elwesso]

I live by the theory of doing it once, and doing it right...

Do everything... Because inevitably as soon as you dig into the plenum and dont replace hoses, youll have leaks of all kinds...

Id suggest at LEAST having all the hoses on hand..... joe is good about returns... If you want I have diagrams from the FAST system I can give you.. Ill give you all my plenum junk...

Seems stupid to not do the KS while your under there... Esp because of your miles...

[maxnix]

I am with Wes. Do the top side all at once and don't worry for another 120K miles.

[DAEDALUS]

I seem to recall there is 1 or 2 o-rings around the fasteners in the middle of the valve covers. I'm nearly certain the bolt in the center has an o-ring.

[elwesso]

I am with Wes. Do the top side all at once and don't worry for another 120K miles.

Yes.. You wont have to worry about it for a long time.. Except I had things on the BOTTOM end go bad.....

My engine sounds terrible, but hey, my injectors and good and my plenum hoses are pristine!

[Q451990]

I seem to recall there is 1 or 2 o-rings around the fasteners in the middle of the valve covers. I'm nearly certain the bolt in the center has an o-ring.

That's absolutely right. I think it's a common practice in the field to just smear some RTV on them - that's what they did at T3, and what the dealership in CA did on their reseal before them. I'd go ahead and replace them though.One thing I learned at T3 was to use an angle grinder with sort of a spongy pad (think scotchbrite) to get the old RTV off.

http://www.harborfreight.com/c...41655

It'll be the best $20 you ever spent!

Heath

[squeefoo]

Never saw any O-rings and it was never apart. The engine only had 70K on it.

[PoorManQ45]

I live by the theory of doing it once, and doing it right...

I live by the theory of doing it cheap once, if I have to do it again, throw it away.

I don't like to use Only RTV for the VC gasket. I have used that stuff on another car, RTV was recommended by manufacture. I followed the directions on the can perfectly. 1/8-1/4 bead all the way around. Let it sit for a few minutes to get it "goey". And then put the VC back on. I let the car sit for 2 days without starting the motor.

At first, everything was good. The car ran fine with no VC leaks for about 6 months. And then it happened. Black and Grey smoke began pouring out of the engine compartment. The VC gasket was leaking right onto the headers.

So, I took the VCs back off, and guess what I found.... Nothing... Absolutely nothing... The RTV had all "disaapeared". I was like "WTF!!!". I did exactly what the instructions said to do.

So, I went down to the local Advance Autozone and bought the proper gasket material in a roll. Read the label to make sure you get the right stuff. I cut out two gaskets to the Exact shape of the VCs. <-- This took about 1 hour a piece. When I was installing them, I spread a thin layer of standard High Temperature Silicone on both sides of the gasket. <-- To allow a good seal. And then I fitted the VCs on and tightened them down. Let car sit for 2 days. Started it up, and no leaks.

Now it's 14 months later and there are still no leaks.

Moral of the story: Don't use only RTV, always make sure that there is something for the RTV to stick to... i.e. A gasket.

[Altiman94]

That is one thing I can see with PMQ on. RTV by itself is nearly worthless.

[texasoil]

Good automotive oil sealant grade RTV is forever. Unfortunately, not all RTV is good gasket grade.

Hylomar is the sealant used to keep Maseratti engines oil tight--it lasts until you take it apart every 20 years.

For automotive engine sealants that are in gas or oil cantact, be sure to use 'sensor safe' stuff as it does not have any free silicon, which will quickly kill the O2 sensors.

[maxnix]

Earlier heads have relief to accept RTV Bead to complete the seal. Gaskets will have to be too soft to accomodate this relief and seal properly.

[GreenQ45a]

I did my own VC gaskets on my 1994 GreenQ45aNo problem. (they had real gaskets)

Also:

I helped my friend do his 1992 Q45 (base)

I took 6 hours for the drivers side and 4 for the pass side.

We used ONLY the RVT (good brand not the cheapest RTV on the shelf)

and his Q45 HAS NOT leaked a drip in over 3.5 years.

It all depend on the quality of YOUR parts and YOUR labor

I live by the theory of doing it cheap once, if I have to do it again, throw it away.

This is not the proper person to get advise from on this subject.

If done right the RVT only needs 8 hours to setup RIGHT.No need to wait 2 days. 24 hours if your really unsure.

So, I took the VCs back off, and guess what I found.... Nothing... Absolutely nothing... The RTV had all "disaapeared". I was like "WTF!!!". I did exactly what the instructions said to do.

If that was the case the car would have lost a quart a day easy.and leaked ALL OVER everything and WOULDN'T Come on "all of a sudden"I have never seen ANY TYPE of RVT disapear in less is touched gas.The 1992 still had 98% of the OEM RVT gasket.

Take your time and do it right.

PS.If your car starts leaking after only 6 months YOU DID IT WRONG!

GreenQ45a


Modified by GreenQ45a at 2:41 AM 11/25/2004

[GreenQ45a]

I would break it in to 2 jobs.

You will only gain a small bit of room by doing the both jobs @ once.You also will increase the chance of FOD (Forigen Object Damage ) entering into another vital system.

The VC job is enough work the first time and you don't want to open too many can's of worms @ one time.

If this your first VC job then just worry about the VC's, all hoses that can be reached, new PCV cleaning the enging bay(befor you begin).and you will find many other small jobs that need doing.

Once the VC's are off buy a 6 dollar electric tooth brush and 2 big bottles of "Greased Lighting Cleaner"(most any Autozone has it) let it soak on anything for about ten mins and this will clean it with little to no effort (REALLY REALLY GOOD for the VC's ).

This is all my advise Wes and many others have done lot's of post about it but this you know.

I would only do them all @ once if I pulled the engine

GreenQ45a

[DAEDALUS]

Be careful with the RTV strippers on the outside of the valve covers. They're painted, and that stuff will take the paint off.

Manufacturers have better materials and processes and some are getting away from RTV and going to composite gaskets and other things. I've heard of bolts that have a rubber ring built in under the head. Nothing wrong with RTV as a sealant, and it's a cheaper material than this new stuff, but RTV costs a lot more in overhead. It requires more time in labor and logistics, it's messy, it can be hazardous, it needs time to cure, and rework is a real pain.

[GreenQ45a]

Be careful with the RTV strippers on the outside of the valve covers. They're painted, and that stuff will take the paint off.

Which strippers do you speak of??

[Q451990]

I think he was referring to cleaning the inside of the rocker covers, not the gasket material. I'd use the greased lightning, brake parts cleaner, some have even recommended oven cleaner. Whatever you use, use it only on the inside of the cover - it will probably strip the paint on the outside.

The agle dye grinder is by far the best idea I've seen for RTV removal if you have an air compressor.

The guys at T3 use BG brand black RTV, but my local dealership uses Permatex Grey (available at Autozone, Advance, etc.) I like the look of the grey better (blends in with the engine color) but I suspect the BG stuff may be a little better. Who knows...

The RTV will last for years if done correctly and allowed to cure properly. I'd let the car sit for 24 hours before starting. The first reseal the dealership did on Q1 sucked because they put it back together and tossed me the keys. When I got home the excess bead of RTV was hanging down over the exhaust runners. Definately let it cure overnight.

I even made a point of having a transmission flush to do the next morning on Q2 so that we could leave her on the rack overnight

Heath
Modified by Q451990 at 1:39 AM 11/26/2004

[PoorManQ45]

Hey HD: if you need, or would like, an extra set of hands to help you do either or both of these jobs, I'd be willing to help.

[squeefoo]

I have in the past bought a tube of black 100% silicone, put it in the caulking gun and sealed away. This was on complete engines, on the stand, and was used on everything with gaskets or not. Never had a problem. Also have put things together and driven it away, dry on the fly. The only thing I ever saw really bad, was on a bobcat engine -somebody (not me) put so much silicone on everything the worms broke off inside and clogged the sump screen, with obvious detrimental results. The owner said when I showed him "I just had it rebuilt three years ago!" of course the people who did it said their warranty expired, almost made the top five "Maddest people I ever saw!"

[HeavyDuty]

Whew!

Lots of responses, thanks guys.

I think for the moment, Ill address the VC's & plugs, then see what else needs attention while I'm in there. Normally I would just delve into it & find out for myself, but I can't afford to have the car down for more than a weekend, which means no time to order parts if needed.

TexasOil & or the rest of you guys, what do you think about the Wurth RTV?

I ordered "all necessary" VC seals & I do have four o-rings & hopefully four half moons, now I need to look before I leap.

Thanks again for the heads up,

[PoorManQ45]

While your in there, you could do a few "Standard" maintenence stuff.

Is it nearing the time/mileage to change your fuel filter?

How do the lines coming from and going to the filter look? Sometimes they need replacing.

[AZhitman]

I'm gonna be on welfare if my customer's ECU and TCU don't show up soon...

Jason, holla back!

[HeavyDuty]

Roger that