new Rogue - change oil after break-in period?

[DTASFAB]

I've had my 2013 Rogue for a little over a month. It now has about 1460 miles. The dealer included 4 free oil changes and 2 free tire rotations in the sale, so I called today to schedule my first oil change. They said there's no need to do it so early because nobody uses break-in oil anymore, and I should wait until at least 2500. Their regular interval is 3750 and they recommended I not use synthetic.

They said if I get it done now, I'll use up my free oil changes too quickly. I think they're trying to delay me because the free services expire within a year of when I got the car, and I don't drive that many miles. I typically don't drive anywhere near 1500 miles in a month, but I've taken this thing out on a lot of joyrides because it's new. If the year goes by and I've only driven 9500 miles, I'm not going to use all 4 free oil changes, saving the dealer money.

Should I insist they change my oil now?

[ImStricken06]

the faster you change your first fluids; the better. they are trying to get you to expire your free oil changes. if you are owed 4, take all 4 whenever you want.

[TrevorK]

They said if I get it done now, I'll use up my free oil changes too quickly. I think they're trying to delay me because the free services expire within a year of when I got the car, and I don't drive that many miles. I typically don't drive anywhere near 1500 miles in a month, but I've taken this thing out on a lot of joyrides because it's new. If the year goes by and I've only driven 9500 miles, I'm not going to use all 4 free oil changes, saving the dealer money.

Should I insist they change my oil now?

Insist on it - it's free to you and you will not use it otherwise.

While they may be trying to steer you in the direction of not using all your free oil changes, they could just be steering you in the direction of the factory manual. I am not sure what training they have that states break-in oil/lubricants are not used. I am under the impression that these being added are reasons NOT to change your oil too early because they have important properties. Not that they are reasons TO change your oil early, which is what you indicate they are saying.

That said, I think the bottom line is simple. You get 4 oil changes in a year and there is no harm in using all 4. Even if you only have 1000 miles on it, changing the oil early will not pose any problems. I would definitely change the oil with 1460 miles on it because there is a chance there are contaminants within it from the break-in period. Oil changes are relatively quick and painless, provided you have the time go for it.

[ImStricken06]

your engine "breaks in" (aka) its piston rings, camshaft, lifters and bearings burnish their respective mating surfaces. the first few miles(or hard pulls). literally under 50 miles and its pretty much "broken in".
during that time a lot of metal is shaved and sitting in your oil filter, or are floating around the oil and or passages. id get that junk out ASAP.

the first few hundred or maybe a 1,000-5,000 miles, the rest of the things will "break in", like seals, RTV sealant, wires, etc. they require heat cycles.

[darylzero]

remember that one video someone posted on here showing the Rogues being built and at the end of the assembly line they put the car up on rollers and revved the s*** out of it, don't remember for how long but it seems like they do a little "break in" right away.

[ImStricken06]

hell yea, every car has a good "break in" way before we get it. but for our own sake, its good to do it anyway. it cant hurt.

[DTASFAB]

1633 miles, getting oil changed at dealer with Mobil 1 full synthetic tomorrow. They're making me pay the difference in price between conventional oil and synthetic, even though we all know I'm never going to drive enough miles to use all 4 free oil changes in the first year considering the longer interval with synthetic. It's stupid.

I asked them if I could trade my 4 oil changes and 2 tire rotations for 2 oil changes and one tire rotation, but using full synthetic on both oil changes. They said it's a service contract that they bought for me, on my behalf, from Nissan. Then Nissan pays them when they perform the service. Therefore, the contract is written in stone and can't be changed. It's just a gimmick to get people in the habit of using the dealer for all their service needs. And kickbacks going both ways all over the place I'm sure. So corrupt. I was planning on using this dealer for service anyway, since their front door and my front door are less than 700 feet apart. But now I'm not so sure. After hearing them say for the 9th time that oil changes usually aren't done until at least 3500 miles, it gets tiresome. It's as if they thought saying it again after the 8th time would persuade me to wait to get my first oil change.

Next time I buy a car, I'll ask if they plan on including free oil changes without telling me. I'd rather have gotten $150 off the price of the car and not had my hands tied by their restrictive maintenance schedule.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

They definitely have a bit of a "break-in" at the factory, but they sure don't change the oil after that. What is in your car when you buy it is whatever they filled it with at the engine plant.

OP- I'd definitely get your oil changed soon, regardless of what they say, but Synthetic is pretty unnecessary at this point. I'd burn through your 4 free changes before even thinking about paying more for synthetic.

[DTASFAB]

Sorry for the length of this post, but this dealer is really getting on my nerves. The follow up information from September is that I wasn't charged the difference in price between conventional and synthetic; I was charged the full price for synthetic, which was $12/quart X 5 quarts = $60 + $1.50 for shop supplies + tax = $66.04 total.

Additionally, these four free oil changes are not just a local in-house thing. They actually purchased Nissan's 12-month/15,000 mile pre-paid service plan on my behalf when I bought the car and didn't tell me until after all the paperwork was signed and I had taken delivery. I wish they would have brought that up in the negotiating phase when I was buying the car so I could have declined it and asked them to cut the purchase price by however much they were giving to Nissan to buy this service plan. So I paid them the $66.04 for the oil change back in September. I didn't pay for the filter or for labor, since they were included in the service plan. The mileage at the time was 1633 back when this was done in September.

Then I had the problem with acid corrosion building up on the battery, and it took three visits (one in Oct., one in Nov., one in Dec.) to finally get the battery replaced. When they replaced the battery in December, the service manager told me they found a crack in the negative terminal post inside the battery, and that's what was causing the acid buildup. While it was in the shop, they also checked my brake pads and did a 194-gazillion point check on a ton of other stuff that was completely unnecessary. So I came here and asked about whether they could have checked the pads without removing the wheels, and based on the responses I got, I figured they were lying about something. About a week after that, I got a call from their outsourced marketing contractor who conducts phone surveys. They were calling me from either a Virginia or West Virginia area code, so I knew they weren't local. I complained to them about these issues, and a couple days after that, I got a call from the service manager at the dealer who said they used a mirror to check the condition of the brake pads without removing the wheels.

He also emphasized that I was granted a huge favor by having them replace the battery free of charge, and that it wasn't covered under warranty, so they simply ate the cost. I asked him why Nissan wouldn't cover the new battery, since the old one had a crack in the post, and he admitted he only said that because I had complained so much about the acid buildup. So he flat out admitted that he lied to me about finding a crack in the post. Even after that battery was removed from my vehicle, he was still claiming there was nothing wrong with it. During this same conversation, I brought up the question of having an auto-dimming mirror installed. He said the part lists for $235 and it usually takes 90 minutes to install, but he'd do me a favor and only charge me one hour for labor.

Fast forward to this week, and I dropped the car off to have the auto-dimming mirror installed. The mileage is now 5346. The installation of the mirror went perfectly fine. The problem is that without me asking, without my signature authorization, and completely without my knowledge, they also performed another multi-point inspection, a free alignment check (which the repair order says includes a "results printout for customer" that was never supplied to me), another free brake check, free battery and treadwear check, and get this, they changed my oil for free under the service plan using conventional oil and BG MOA, plus they dumped an unspecified fuel conditioner into my gas tank. They also rotated the tires and checked the balancing. These idiots actually put an aftermarket oil additive into my engine that Nissan specifically recommends against using without telling me first and also put an unknown substance in the gas tank!

Based on the quality of the mirror installation, I'm confident that the technician did a good job on the oil change as well, and he was simply following instructions to change the oil and add the fuel conditioner from the service adviser and/or manager. But what the hell, man??? When I was picking up the vehicle and paying for the mirror installation, the service adviser reminded me that I have free oil changes to use within the first year that I shouldn't allow to expire. I thought he was simply reminding me. However, after actually reading the detailed information on the repair order, I now realize they actually performed the work! Totally unreal and totally unacceptable. He even claimed that they use a synthetic blend oil for the free service plan oil changes. What he really meant is they use conventional oil with BG MOA, which is not the same as a synthetic blend.

1) I specifically wanted to use synthetic oil exclusively in this engine starting with the first oil change. That plan is no longer possible.

2) Any fuel conditioner/detergent should be added when filling up a nearly empty tank so it mixes well with the fuel, not when it's 7/8 full like it was when I dropped it off for the mirror installation.

3) I don't know what rotation pattern they followed, so I don't know which tires are where now, and I shouldn't have to ask. They should have told me, or better yet, they shouldn't have removed the wheels at all, since I didn't ask for it.

4) The only authorization form I signed when I dropped the car off Tuesday night specifically relates to the mirror installation and nothing else.

5) I know the conventional oil, BG MOA, and generic fuel conditioner are not going to cause any real harm, but that's not the point. They are messing with my truck. It's not theirs to mess with. I'm done with them, which is a shame, since they're literally a 700-foot walk across the street from my house and it's ultra convenient to have work done there. I just don't know if I want to bother complaining to them about this or let it go. I'm also debating whether to write up bad reviews for them on edmonds.com, yelp, google plus, etc. Previously, I had written multiple glowing reviews for them since the sales experience was so positive back in July and August. If they wouldn't have bought that damn service contract for me, none of this would have happened. The only reason I can think why they buy the one-year service plan for all new cars they sell is to get people in the habit of using their service department for routine maintenance and repairs. Well in my case, I was planning on using their service department anyway, due to the convenience of the location, but the way they've handled everything has cost them my business. I simply can't trust them to not mess with my truck. It's one thing for them to offer it and then let me decide if I want something done. It's something else when they just go ahead and do it.

6) I'm planning to get this oil drained and replaced with full synthetic over the weekend at an independent shop I've been using for years. I'll also have them check the torque of the lugnuts, since I doubt the dealer tightened them by hand the way they're supposed to after rotating the tires. My independent shop charges $69.95 for a full synthetic oil change using 5 quarts like the Rogue needs. So I can pay my regular guy who I trust $70 or I can pay the dealer $66 for a "free" oil change. I just hope I never need warranty work, because I'll have to use another Nissan dealer to do it. I'm never going back to the place right across the street from my house. This all leaves such a sour taste in my mouth.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I'd make the stealership change your oil back to synthetic, seeing as how they performed unrequested work.

Then sell their maintenance plan back to them, because they swindled you into it in the first place, and its obvious it isn't something you want. It will also prevent them from doing unrequested work in the future.

[ricbrk]

DTASFAB, I feel your pain. I just got the second 6 month oil change done at 5,100 miles. I think the Nissan oil change interval is ridiculous. We are very rural, and most of the driving is a 15 mile trek to town. There is one red light that is usually flashing and no stop signs. We owned 5 Suzuki's over a 15 year period and their oil change interval is 7500 miles with conventional oil. Never had a engine issue. I asked the service manager at the last oil change what brand of oil they use. He said Ford motorcraft oil. The automotive group who owns the dealership owns a couple Ford garages so they buy all the same oil in bulk. I purchased 3 Nissan oil filters with new drain plug rings, "special price on 3", and told him I would be changing my own oil from now on with Mobil 1 synthetic with a Nissan filter, and save receipts. I plan on changing it every 6 months or 5,000 miles. He feels if I develop motor issues, Nissan may not honor the warranty ? Schedule 2 in the owners manual states 7500 miles or six months which I feel more suitable to my use. I will use 6 months or 5,000 miles with synthetic as per our other car, a 2008 Suzuki SX4. What does everyone think about this relating to warranty issues ?

[SlimSlammedRogue]

Is the oil weight different than the 1st gen rogues? What does the manual say it needs?

[Rogue One]

Is the oil weight different than the 1st gen rogues? What does the manual say it needs?

Nissan carried over the engine, so the oil specs should be the same.

[1019throw]

Is the oil weight different than the 1st gen rogues? What does the manual say it needs?

Nissan carried over the engine, so the oil specs should be the same.

From the manual, it says SAE 0W-20. Alternative is SAE 5w-30

[SlimSlammedRogue]

Would it be bad if i switched to 0w40? I was doing some research and a lot of people were saying the QR25 in our cars love it.

[DTASFAB]

It got more interesting today. I went in there, playing the confused customer. They actually told me they hadn't really changed the oil, but they wrote that on the repair invoice so I could come back at a later date and have it done for free later on. Only I looked at the dipstick, and the oil was fresh, clean, and appeared not more than two days old. There's no way it had been driven 3700 miles.

They lie through their teeth, and they actually admitted to falsifying a repair order that they sent to Nissan for warranty reimbursement. When I used that exact phrase, they backtracked, saying the invoice notes don't appear on the customer copy of the repair order invoice, but their computer contains a note explaining that the inspection and tire rotation were done, but the customer will return at a later date to get the oil changed with full synthetic. I asked them to print this note out for me, which they did, and it has today's date on it, not the date the work was performed and the repair order originally printed. It was obvious they were writing and typing that note into the computer while I was standing right there in front of them. They think I'm stupid.

It would be nice if they would just admit their mistake, take responsibility for it, offer to replace the 5 quarts of perfectly good synthetic oil they essentially stole from me and replaced with inferior oil and an unauthorized additive, and sent me on my way. Instead, they keep trying to put the toothpaste back into the tube, but they're just smearing it around all over the place and making a bigger mess.

I don't care if I burn the bridge at this point. I don't trust them to touch my truck ever again, and I have other shops that are more trustworthy and do better quality work in my local area, and if I need warranty work done, there are several other Nissan dealers within a 20 mile radius.

My only real concern is that Nissan may try to dishonor any warranty on my engine due to the use of BG MOA. And I'm afraid to wait until that issue should arise to sue the dealer, because I'm sure there's a statute of limitations. I'd really like to sue them and get a court order demanding that if Nissan should dishonor any warranty work on my engine that the dealer would then be held responsible for any engine damage. I don't know if a judge would issue that kind of order without me having incurred any real damages up to this point.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

If a Nissan dealer did the work, Nissan has to warranty it if something goes bad.

What warranty did they falsify to get reimbursement from corporate?

[DTASFAB]

They consider this stupid 1-year/15,000 mile service contract to be a "warranty." It includes oil changes at 3750 and 11250 miles, as well as oil changes and tire rotations at 7500 and 15000 miles. To me, "warranty" is a word that's used when the manufacturer of a product pays to have a defect in the product repaired. It should not be used to describe a routine maintenance contract. Each oil change should be done at 3-month intervals, or else they expire. My delivery date was 8/6/13, so the second service was due to expire after 2/6/14.

So when I complained after the fact that I didn't want conventional oil in my engine, and that I also did not want BG MOA in my engine, they tried to backtrack and deny that the oil change had actually been performed. They told me, verbally, that the work is listed on the repair order so that it would appear to have been done on this particular date, and therefore, I wouldn't lose the "free" service as a result of letting it expire. They told me to come back when I'm ready to actually have the oil change completed, and at that time, I'd only have to pay for the synthetic oil, but not for any other part of the service, since it's included in the "warranty."

The truth is they actually did change the oil, but they wanted me to believe they hadn't, because I told them I was not happy about having my oil changed, and I wished they hadn't done it. So they tried to shift the victim; that is, they tried to make me believe they were ripping Nissan off instead of ripping me off.

I took some oil from the dipstick and wiped it with a white paper towel, then folded the paper towel and put it in my pocket. I then walked to the dealership and showed it to the service adviser. It was clean, brand new, pale yellow oil. There's no way it had been driven 3700 miles, and I told him as much. In fact, just a couple weeks ago, I checked the oil that had been put in the engine back in September and it was rather dark, but oil that's simply dark isn't necessarily bad, so I was in no rush to replace it. When the service adviser saw the paper towel and I told him where it came from, he was like, "UH, UHHHH, UHHHHHHHHH," and couldn't decide what to say in response. I interrupted and simply told him, "I know that you know that I know," and he smiled at me. I smiled back. Then I made my exit and went on my way.

A little honesty would have gone a long way, but that's clearly not their policy. For the great length of all these posts, they really only made two mistakes. First, they should have called me to ask if I wanted any service done in addition to the installation of the auto-dimming mirror. They failed to ask permission and proceeded to do unauthorized work. Second, they refused to admit what they had done, and they also refused to apologize. The first mistake was impossible to correct, but they had more than ample opportunity to fix the second mistake, and they have failed miserably.

I'm getting the oil changed either today or Monday at an independent shop where I will have them note on the invoice specifically what type and how much oil they put into the engine, and the manufacturer and part number of the filter. Is there any specific filter I should avoid or that might void my original powertrain warranty?

I don't even want this vehicle anymore. They have smothered any and all enjoyment I've derived from owning and driving it.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Having non synthetic oil in your engine for a week isn't going to ruin it by any means. Nor is it going to void the warranty.

Its a BS service contract to begin with, that you never wanted. Have you ever asked for a refund? You clearly sound like you're never going back there.

Just save the oil they put in there and dump it all over their building haha. 2 can play the "I didn't put any oil anywhere" game.

[DTASFAB]

Yeah, I know it's not going to ruin anything, and I also know BG MOA is a quality product that can be very beneficial in an appropriate application, but this is not it. I'm not afraid that it will actually harm the engine. But like I said, if there should be an unrelated engine problem later on, I don't want Nissan to deny warranty work on the basis of an unapproved aftermarket additive having been used previously. Your comment above about Nissan not being able to deny a warranty claim since the additive was put in by a Nissan dealer is reassuring, to say the least.

I haven't asked for a refund on the service contract recently. Back in September, after I bought the car, but prior to the first oil change, I was trying to renegotiate the terms of the service contract to simply include two synthetic oil changes and one tire rotation, rather than 4 conventional oil changes and 2 tire rotations. They refused to make this adjustment. I told them at that time (in September) if I had known during the buying process that it was going to play out this way, I would have declined the service contract and asked them to lower the vehicle price by whatever amount they'd have saved by not buying the service contract from Nissan on my behalf. They flat out told me they never would have done that for me and that there are many reasons why they buy that contract from Nissan for every car they sell (kickbacks???). That's the closest I came to asking for a refund. I never actually asked for a cash refund, and at this point, I don't think there's a chance in hell they'd give me one.

One thing they said to me on my first visit to the service desk yesterday is that the service contract was purchased by them, on their dime, on my behalf as an appreciative gesture, essentially thanking me for buying a car from them. But they went on to claim that I'm allowed to decline the free services and alluded to the idea that I was overthinking and overanalyzing the entire situation, and since I wasn't paying for the oil change, I shouldn't worry about it. I was very precise and articulate in my response to all that by first explaining that I was never given the opportunity to decline it during the purchase phase, and I'm not being given an opportunity to decline it now, since they just went ahead and did the work, unauthorized, without my knowledge or consent. I added that I didn't care who was paying for what, and that it's my car that I spent over $26,000 to buy, and it's not theirs to mess with. They had no answer to any of that. They just kind of nodded in shameful agreement.

This place is flat out disgusting. I regret ever setting foot in their showroom. It makes me appreciate so much more the honesty and integrity of the Toyota dealership my family has been doing business with since the mid 1980s. The service department at the Toyota dealership actually is willing to do work on any make and model. They just can't do warranty work obviously, but I'm sure at some point, they will be doing some routine maintenance on my Rogue, assuming I don't sell it to a wholesaler in the near future to cleanse myself of this entire regretful and shameful display of fraudulent deceit and corruption by Nissan and its licensed dealer. They have made me feel like a dirty, objectified, exploited whore who is not recognized as anything more than an inanimate object to be treated as a resource and not as an individual with legal rights.

[DTASFAB]

Just save the oil they put in there and dump it all over their building haha. 2 can play the "I didn't put any oil anywhere" game.

Maybe I'll dump it on the driver's seat of the Maxima they have sitting in the showroom less than 10 feet from the service desk. Or on the roof of the Nismo Juke they have right next to it.

[DTASFAB]

The conventional oil has been drained and replaced by my regular mechanic with a full synthetic 5W-30. The filter is listed on the invoice as 21358, which I know is the correct part, but I'm not sure what brand filter he used. Anyway, he said when he drained it, the oil was clean and new, the color of lemonade. When I last checked my oil prior to this, sometime around the turn of the new year, my oil was brown, since I had driven on it well over 3000 miles at that point.

I called corporate yesterday to file a complaint, which is not typical of me. I never would have escalated this beyond the local level if I hadn't believed I was being lied to. Corporate had a specialist call the dealership to get their side of the story, and the dealership insisted they had in fact not changed the oil, so as far as Nissan's records are concerned, the oil was never changed and there was never BG MOA in my engine. Therefore, my warranty is completely intact and uncompromised. By the time anything goes wrong with the engine, the oil will likely have been changed at least a handful of times, removing any chemical trace of the additive.

The specialist called me just a few minutes ago, and we spoke at length about all the details of what happened. As I told her regarding the oil change, I can't prove they changed the oil, and they can't prove they didn't. There are three sides to every story - his side, her side, and the truth. But ALL the circumstantial evidence points to the oil having been changed. From the line item on the repair invoice to the color of the oil on the dipstick to the reminder sticker on the top corner of the windshield that says the next service is scheduled for when the odometer reads 9097 (5347+3750), it was very clear that the oil had been changed. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. On the flip side, the only evidence denying the oil change is the dealer's word, LOL.

They also confirmed that the 12-month/15,000 mile service contract (or "warranty") can be used at any Nissan dealer, not just the one that purchased it for me. I was about to ask if I can sell back whatever remaining credit I have on this service plan/warranty when they offered me a $200 courtesy credit that is good for six months at any Nissan dealership for service and/or genuine parts/accessories. So I never asked the question, and I still have two free oil changes remaining, although I doubt I'll use them both by early August. But maybe I'll get one more free oil change in which I supply the synthetic oil, but at a different dealer.

I'm thinking now I have to find the cheapest online source of NS-2 CVT fluid that's also a licensed Nissan dealer so I can stock up using my $200 courtesy credit. They did good by me for this debacle. My only concern is the shelf life of the CVT fluid in its original sealed container. I probably won't be using it for at least a couple years. Will it still be good at that time?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Why not get NS-3 CVT fluid? The new rogue probably requires it over NS-2... and even if it doesn't, NS-3 is backwards compatible. It should last for a really long time in its sealed container.

[DTASFAB]

I'm just guessing NS-3 is more expensive, and we already talked about mixing NS-2 and NS-3 when doing a drain and refill. Since there's no known benefit from using NS-3 in a 2013 Rogue, I see no reason to do it.