new M56 still not upto par with Lex, merc & bmw.....InF still an also ran!

[qship96]

M class infiniti was never meant to go head to head with the s class or 7 series.....more like the E class or 5 series- Infiniti stopped trying to compete with the top tier luxury sedans, hence no Q left in their lineup.....m is a MID LEVEL market sedan, just as E class or 5 series or lexus GS series- leaving Lexus to absolutly own the japanese full size flagship sedan market with their LS series sedan. Blame it on the ugly 90-93 series Q which totally missed the mark on what American consumers wanted from a lux sedan which forever crippled the Infiniti in the minds of the consumer and allowed Lexus to get an early dominance in the marketplace which they still hold today- the average consumer doesnt even think Infiniti is in the same class of vehicles as Lexus.

[Q451990]

This thread depresses me.

[MinisterofDOOM]

M class infiniti was never meant to go head to head with the s class or 7 series.....more like the E class or 5 series.

Exactly. That's precisely what I was going to post. As I noted in the last thread discussing the new M, take a look at the pricetags on these cars you're comparing. The M is a $45k car. The LS460 is a $60k car. The 7 series STARTS at $80k and runs all the way up to the $140k mark. The S Class starts at $90k.

$90k is TWICE $45k.

Compare the M to the GS460, the 550, or the E class, and the playing field is much more level, with the M actually being among the biggest and most powerful cars in the segment. You can't get anywhere near 450hp in any of the M's competitors without buying the double-pricetag special versions (like the AMG E63).

M is right where it needs to be.

Infiniti's leanings are completely different than those of Lexus and MB. And I doubt many people are willing to pay $100k+ for an Infiniti as they would the BMWs that Infiniti best emulates.

[AZhitman]

I think someone needs to take off their mittens when they type.

[qship96]

I think the new M is awesome in its class, just wish Infiniti would produce a true flagship sedan to compete in the S class, A8, ls460, & 7 series segment. Big, Big, lots of rear legroom full size sedan you could carry rear passengers in total comfort, like the A8L or 750 Li. Kinda silly to have a luxury sedan where the rear seat passengers are cramped....no luxury in being cramped, regardless of how soft the leather is or how many high tech toys the car has.The G50 rear seating is a joke compared to how big the car is on the outside!

[BadQ45t]

I just wish they had a twin-turbo version of it, plus why not a little better gas mileage? But overall the M56 looks like it will be winner in the class and price point.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I just wish they had a twin-turbo version of it, plus why not a little better gas mileage? But overall the M56 looks like it will be winner in the class and price point.

I'd rather see an M60 than a TT M56.

[MinisterofDOOM]

If you have to wait for a car to pass you, to read the designature on the trunk to figure out its the flagship , then its NOT a lux brand; ok, the M56 maybe the flagship, but who wants to spend extra money buying it, when a base M35 with wheel package looks exactly the same?? Thats ford, gm mentality.

I think the problem here is your perception, not the car. You want the car to be a Q. It is not. It's NOT the flagship. Infiniti HAS no flagship. The biggest ship is not automatically the flagship. Flagships fly flags. The M has no flag on its mast. The flagship is dead, or on hiatus.

And if your view of the difference between the M37 and M56 is limited to looks, you're not a potential M56 buyer (or 760 or S600 buyer) so none of THAT matters anyway. You buy the M56 for the ENGINE. You buy an M37 so your neighbors will be jealous.

[TBrack]

people perception will always be of "near luxury" - hence putting the brand in the league of VW, acura etc

[MinisterofDOOM]

"hence putting the brand in the league of VW, acura etc,

Eh, I don't agree there.

Neither VW nor Acura makes a RWD car...the best either offers is front-biased AWD. Neither offers a V8 and neither makes anything bigger than an Accord. No one sees Infiniti in the same group as them. Infiniti is definitely perceived as BMW's shadow, Q or no Q.

In fact, the G and the M have done more to reinforce that BMW shadow image than the Q ever did. The media (and thus average buyers) see the G as the 3's best competition, and the M as the 5's best competition. The G and M are pretty widely perceived as being as close as you can get to BMW without buying a BMW...for a lot less.

Certainly a very well-done Q could help the brand's image even more, but to say the lack of a Q has harmed the brand is just not true. The Q was never really liked by average buyers anyway, so its disappearance means nothing to them.

It's the attainable cars that set public image. Sure flagships are great for saying "we can do this" but it's the entry models in this segment that make or break a brand. The G35 is responsible for singlehandedly making Infiniti what it is today. And when people think "BMW" today they don't think 7, they think 3. The 7-series segment is there to show off excesses. The 3 series segment is where the real business happens.

That may be pitiful consolation for those of us who DO want 7s or Qs, but the idea that brand image stems exclusively from the top-end model is foolish and, if anything, Infiniti stands as the best proof of that to be found.

[buttons]

I got my q45 last week and before that day i never even gave infiniti a glance. I take that back, the G35 caught my attention in a big way but i still wasnt that hot about infiniti as a whole. I really dig that M56 and now i can see a gently used M45 in my near future. Saw someone selling an 03 M45 in immaculate shape with 70k miles for 10,000 OBO. seems like a steal to me!

If i was in the market for a 50k car Id give the M56 a strong look -- but your right about one thing. when people buy BMW or mercedes i think its mostly for the status symbol. Infiniti brand does not seem on the same level as a bmw/mercedes -- probably hollywoods fault :-)