new kid in town building a fun car, advice? opinions?

[jusadsoy]

whats up Nico, im new to posting in the forums but have learned much from them.
im not new to 240s or automotive work, am handy with most tools you could throw my way, and can figure anything out with little direction. im no 16 y/o cartard drift fanboy. ive been saving for college at uti/nti and due to unexpected circumstances that got alot cheaper so i want to make my 93 coupe more fun for me to tool around town in.

i know i want megan coil overs, front and rear strut tower bars, and adjustable arms to stiffen everything up and maybe xxr530s with falken zeix tires

radiator, silicone hoses, water temp adapter, and coolant tank, all from megan racing...

ditch the radiator fan and put in an electric fan from my local race shop that supposedly runs 3x's the air than the average auto zone fan...

water temp gauge, A/F gauge, oil pressure gauge

248/248 cams at 25* from what i have read is a nice setup for cheap, nice FPR, walbro 255 pump, 270cc injectors, 8mm plug wires, JWT ecu tuned for all this junk, head studs and top end gaskets, z1 solid light weight drive shaft, competition clutch and lightweight flywheel, short throw shifter, 3" exhaust, remove all emissions
and chase bays power steering kit and engine harness.

i want this thing to run to 7k in every gear every where it goes and not give a single f*** and be RELIABLE and LOUD

what am i missing? i really want to stay NA!


thanks in advance for any advice and input!

[jusadsoy]

I should have thrown in there that i have extensively researched all of these parts, but have yet to find a build that is exactly what i want to go by. I want a quick revving n/a car, that is fun to drive but not ridiculous. i slide around in my lifted 08 ram regular cab v8 6spd truck so im used to squeezing power out of stuff and i like to be able to stay on the skinny pedal all the time. i ride motocross, quads, drift a little, play on mountain roads, and do anything i possibly can on the rev limiter, hell i run my lawn mower wide open.

[Jake The Snake]

Welcome

Pictures of how the car sits now? What kind of power are you hoping to get out of the KA? I had a 248 cammed KA and wasn't too impressed.

[jusadsoy]

I don't have any at the time being because my phone's camera is messed up, but I'll try to get some uploaded. It's a completely stock red coupe with a dual cam and 5 speed. I am not really sure what my power goals are at the moment, i just want it to be reliable and snappy and be ready if i ever decide to throw boost at it. I am interested in a super charger but again I'm not completely sure. I have drifted my friends ka hatch with only coil overs and a exhaust cam swap and had a fun driving it.

[Slow540]

I have a 93 coupe with 220k. Stock KA. Has a Fidanza flywheel act clutch with a cheap v2 b&m knockoff short shifter. Has Stance gr coilovers. Good brake pads and fluid. Stainless lines. Some cheap strut bars f/r. Cheap tension rods. Progress adjustable front sway bar. Timing set to 23*. 195/55/15 sport comp 2 on factory steeles with oem hubcaps and thats it. Cops don't even look at me. I own a highly modded 450hp turbo 71 s30, a stock 08 GSR Evo X, and I must say that in the corners the 240 is just fun as hell. I'll get rid of the evo before the 240 any day. Never thought I'd say that untill I owned the evo. The 240 puts a smile on my face every day I drive it even though it is kinda slow in a straight line. I can't say the s13 is much worse in the corners than my other rides because of the confidence the car gives. Much easier to drive at the limit than the evo and its wearing new pilot super sports. I've raced modded s13's on the freeway (3" exhaust, intake, wheels, etc....) and walked on them. I've focused more on maintenance then anything and I guess it pays off. My shocks suck and I wish I went Koni from the beginning. Groundcontol sells a Koni kit $1700 but its the only off the shelf system I recommend. Front spherical tension rods helped make the car feel newer with no cons. Strut bars added a bit of response but also changed the the cars behavior (front bar added understeer, rear helped reduce a little understeer) hence the sway bar. It still understeers just a bit with this setup but it can oversteer when you ask the car to. This is the fastest setup, for grip, that I've run on the car and I've kept up with some cars in the twisties that were mighty surprised.
I don't see the benefit in NA bolt ons really. The gains are so minuet. Just focus on driving ability and then you will be fast in slow cars.

Favorite power mods:
Grounding kit
Flywheel
Timing advance

Favorite handling mods:
Tension rods
Tires
Stut bars

This is my own experience. Others may disagree.

[jusadsoy]

yeah i get what you are saying, but let me justify my reasoning real quick, itll help you give me advice, and give me peace of mind taking advice since we'll be on the same page.

a brand new performance cooling system, since it will be noticeably better than stock, wont be over heating and the way i drive that will be beneficial, and it'll save time in the future if i decide to go with forced induction

a proper set of gauges because dummy lights and stock systems arent optimum and i like to know what i need to keep track of

underdrive, 1pc light weight drive shaft, stage 3 clutch, and "competition clutch" ultra light flywheel, and 1.5 way diff will help alot with response, less rotating weight=less drivetrain loss=more hp to the ground and a short throw cause i love grabbing gears

i always ditch the emissions on my vehicles and always can see a difference.

chase bays p/s kit: mine is worn and tattered, leaks and makes a mess and messy engine bays disgust me
chase bays harness: mine has clearly seen a few idiots in its lifetime, so might as well do it right
jwt ecu: after my 91 300zx twin turbo i am a firm believer in jim wolf ecus, and it can be re flashed for all of my mods to optimize performance whichever route i go, and no governor, higher rpm limit, feul maps to keep it from leaning out in the top end.

i would like to boost this motor, however that is not in my price range at the time being. but what i can afford to do is the cams, studs, gasket, FPR, injectors, walbro pump, and a head rebuild to be ready for it so i will only need a turbo setup and a tune.

and I spend my time in the mountains in the super tight and twisty stuff, on the long open sweeping turns and playing around town when im bored, so the suspension is a must. i drive every day like im in a race, i dont know why, its not short man syndrome or anything like that, i just have an un-satisfy able urge to do s*** that most people dont. i use all the power that i have available, hence the reason i ride a yz250f instead of a yz450f, and a cbr600 instead of a built cbr 1000, and a ram 1500 with boltons instead of a 1200hp trophy truck. yes i love to be crazy but i also dont have a death wish. i limit the power that i give myself access to so that i wont slip up doing 190mph pull down the interstate and die lol.

and i know im horrible with words, im a welder and i never have been much for talking, if i had a slick tongue i would be in sales, so bear with me

[Slow540]

With more power you need more grip and that's when the car goes from silly fun to "serious" fun. I have to be going twice the speed in the EVO than the 240 just to reach the limit. I found that the limits are reached quicker in my 240 and that makes it more enjoyable for me.

More power usually means less reliability especially with a ka turbo. Its not like your going to take it easy when you are turbo. If you drive hard all the time, like me, then you'll kill it faster for sure. Plus most issues I had with my car where from things I fixed or upgraded and missed a small detail.

Na mods can be reliable but I can't justify doing anything when my car is faster than most bolt on KA's. I think there is a lot that people don't understand about properly modding a car. If you want power go turbo with everything needed all at once. If you want reliable keep the KA stock and do a complete tune up. If you want loud get a 3" exhaust. Clutch fan and shroud rocks. Electric fans eat hp too, search more. All drivetrain mods I like. No reliability issues just performance.

Good example, frs/brz bolt ons are making dyno proven performance. 3000 miles later the cars are making lower than stock. Go figure.

[jusadsoy]

i agree, i scare myself more in the body rolling slow a** 240 than on my motorcycle.

and yeah thats why i was originally leaning away from boost, i have had 2 vg30dett's spin bearings and lose oil pumps. i cant say that is all the boost fault, but my heavy foot sure didnt help.

so all the suspension mods, drivetrain, and cooling mods are cool just stay stock on the feul/air/cam/ecu stuff?

i still feel the need to get a nice harness and ditch the factory p/s junk...

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah a lot of the mods you have listed won't necessarily do anything for you. FPR and 270cc injectors are the big ones. You already have 270cc injectors. Not sure why you'd need another fuel pressure regulator. I mean, I guess you could bump up the base pressure in hopes to get better fuel atomization (and your ECU will read the O2 sensor and reduce injector pulse width), but I doubt you'd really notice a difference.

The biggest bang for the buck 240 mods I've noticed are:
Coilovers ($$$)
a good specialty alignment ($), may or may not need tension rods or adjustable control arms depending on how low you go with the coilovers.
Solid tune-up and advance your base timing (timing is free, just make sure you always run premium).

The factory radiator isn't BAD, but usually by this point they are getting a little old, so replacing it is never a bad idea.

Stay away from underdrive pulleys. Most aren't damped at all, and can destroy your oil pump.

I wouldn't touch your gaskets unless you have a problem out of them, but maybe you'll want to save your pennies and build a KA on the side with all fresh components (and higher compression) to swap in at a later date. During the swap, it would be a good idea to get a new wiring harness. 240 harnesses were kinda junk from the factory.

[jusadsoy]

thanks for the input, im going to start looking into a high(er) compression setup. i want a smooth bay along with decent performance. i have 3 other means of transportation and a healthy bank account so i can start whenever, i just need a thoroughly researched build list.

the 1pc light drive shaft, super light weight flywheel, stage 3 clutch, radiator, silicone hoses, performance t-stat, coolant tank, harness, p/s kit from chase bays, coil overs, adjustable arms, sway bars, emissions delete, wide wheels and tires, poly subframe bushings, and short throw are all a must for what i want. all the motor exhaust stuff is still up for debate.

im also wanting to put the battery in the trunk and put the intake in the stock battery location.

anyone know anything about an excessive intake? EDIT: from what i have read about this intake mani with a q45 throttle body and iac removed (adjust idle with throttle blade) 20% better flow is achieved, that and a straight exhaust would require more fuel if i am not mistaken? i have done lager TBs and straight piped exhausts on several of my past vehicles and always gained alot from it.

Also, i am fully aware that i need to be researching on my own, but its also nice to talk this out with real world people as opposed to reading 5yo threads and filling in the blanks. im still doing my research, religiously, but still want as much input as possible before i drop several grand into this car.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

stage 3 clutch, performance t-stat, sway bars,

You probably wont need a clutch that hard core for the power you'll be making (under 200hp NA). Buy a clutch based on ft*lb rating, not "stage". You could shoot for a clutch that holds ~240 ft*lbs.

What thermostat are you referring to? Going to a colder one doesn't really help for NA applications. Your efficiency will be worse (both fuel economy and possibly power production). It shouldn't really be needed as long as your radiator and water pump are up to snuff.

Sway bars might not be needed as well, depending on what coilovers you get. I'm actually going to remove the rear sway bar out of my miata completely... the car just wants to oversteer all the time with my coilovers in there, even on their softest setting. You might want to hold off on buying/deciding on sway bars until after you get the coilovers in, so you can make a better decision on which way to go, based on the handling characteristics of the car if that makes sense.

this intake mani with a q45 throttle body and iac removed (adjust idle with throttle blade) 20% better flow is achieved, that and a straight exhaust would require more fuel if i am not mistaken?

I'm not familiar with that intake manifold setup, but the factory KA intake is pretty damn good, along with the throttle body (90mm if I'm not mistaken. Pretty effin huge for a 2.4l 4 banger). I'm not a fan of IAC delete as well. They don't perform very well over the range of temperature conditions an engine sees (both outside ambient temp as well as coolant temp of the engine).
Be careful what you read about intake manifolds, etc. Yes, on a bench it might be able to flow 20% more, but the KA doesn't necessarily pull that much if that makes sense. Also, more airflow does require more fuel, but again, the amount you're talking about should be covered by the factory injectors and O2 sensor feedback loop in the factory ECU. You COULD get an NA ECU reflash which would most likely richen everything up for more power. At that point I WOULD recommend getting the adjustable FPR and a wideband O2 sensor (or borrowing someone's) just for setting your base fuel pressure so you know your curve is good through the entire RPM sweep.

[jusadsoy]

damn, you are awesome.

ive driven a sohc ka with a 6 puck unsprung and it was so much fun. but if it has negative effects ill go a different route.

and other than forced induction, you can give something all the air in the world and it will only use what it needs, so by using that setup i would be lifting the restrictions (if there are any, if not great) of the flow of the motor. i want to do all the drive train and suspension stuff to where im putting max power to the ground and eventually figure out my preferable suspension setup and upgrade all of the things that support the engine.

there is a way to use that setup with the IAC left intact i believe so ill read more on it. and if i do an exhaust, intake, cams, and set timing to 18* give or take and do the JWT ECU i can have it setup for those parameters so i plug it in and im done, or do wideband, a AFR gauge and adjustable regulator to fine tune it.

am i starting to get this better figured out or am i just making myself look like an idiot? lol

ill hold off on the swaybars, wasnt sure from the get go, thats why i threw those in the list. im honestly not 100% on most of this.

[jusadsoy]

decided to go ahead and order a set of black XXR 530's 17x8 +35 and I am going to try and get in touch with drift works tomorrow for their full suspension kit. cant beat 2500 for a complete suspension.

looking to place an order for STB's, a solid driveshaft, a clutch and flywheel,and short throw shifter and ill go from there. got a line on a ka-de complete motor w/ all accessories for $250 from a friend so im gonna throw it on a stand and get it ready to turbo while i play with the car with drive train and suspension upgrades.

ive spent alot of time repairing stuff, but never building it, i thought these motors were much different than they are and i now will go home with my tail between my legs and a truck load of embarrassment. lol thanks for bearing with me and helping me out guys.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

No problem man. If you're asking these questions, then there's tons more other people out there that are wondering the same thing, reading this thread and learning.

I STRONGLY recommend buying from NICO sponsors whenever possible. They keep this site going. Shaftmasters.com is great for driveshafts. Autoanything.com should be able to provide lots of other parts for the build.

And for your previous question/comment about clutches:
Typically there's ~2 downsides to a heavy duty clutch. 1 is that they are sort of a pain to drive. The pedal is heavier, the engagement is shorter, etc. The second is that because of the heavier action, you actually can put more of a "side load" on your crank and everything during start-up (when there's no oil pressure), reducing the life of the engine. You can get around this by bypassing the clutch switch and just starting in neutral.
But hey, if you like that "super heavy, minimal engagement area" feeling of an unsprung puck clutch, then go for it. You'd be the first person I've ever known that likes that though hahaha. It might get old quick.

And you'll want to go the other way with your timing (for performance). Stock timing is 20* BTDC. Advancing it would put you at ~22 or so. If you go forced induction, you want to retard it to 18 or so just to be on the safe side. The more advanced it is, the longer the burn takes place in the combustion chamber, and the more heat you build (thus increasing your risk of detonation... something that comes inherently with forced induction anyway).

Hopefully this all makes sense to you, but if it doesn't, don't hesitate to ask about it, or why/how one thing may affect another thing, etc.

[jusadsoy]

I appreciate it man, and i have heard good things about shaft masters so i will be going with them more than likely, my financial situation will allow me to buy more on the quality aspect than the dollar figure.

and im gonna go with a clutch for the turbo build and take your advice and go by the ft/lbs ill be attempting to produce.

and timing is the one thing i still feel like i have a great deal to learn, i spent a couple years as a "bolt up the new part by the books" mechanic so i have limited knowledge of how to make all of the aftermarket parts work in unison.

i need more info about the driftworks setup so ill be making a new thread on that, ill be ordering it in the next couple days but i want a chance to get more info on it so ill be making a new thread on that and drive train. thanks again!

EDIT: xxr's are supposed to be here friday ill be putting them on the car and doing some thinking before i decide on a tire size