New Cars Coming! (Camaro and others)

[Jesda]

http://www.edc.ca/prodserv/aut...e.pdfFascinating read on ever-increasing Japanese market share, but skip to page 60 for relevant info.

2006 will bring us, according to this document:



Items that stand out:

Car - PlatformChevy Camaro - ZetaChevy Nomad - KappaCadillac XTS - SigmaBuick Roadmaster - ZetaBuick Velite - ZetaPontiac Torrent - ThetaSaturn Evoke - KappaSaturn Outlook - LambdaSaturn Signal - EpsilonSaturn Relay - LambdaChevy Meriva - GammaGMC Lambda - LambdaSaab 9-6 - LambdaHummer H4 - ThetaHummer HX - GMT355Jeep Compass

[Drift Machine]

I thought they were done with the camaro?

[elwesso]

Looks like one hell of a lineup...

They better give us a couple new engines too!

[NSR240sxe]

With the continued success of the new Mustang I'm not surprised that GM is bringing back the camaro. Just too popular of a car in a lot of camps not to make it.

[nsrZ32]

Definately nice to see Chevy bring the Camaro back, I'm not a huge fan but its like a tradition.

[nismodave]

They need it back.

I hope they dont put the Cat Converter where its sticking through the passenger floorboard again.

[BadMojo]

There's some interesting stuff on there. My question is...what's the Saturn Evoke? Is that the Saturn version of the Pontiac Solstice? I'm assuming so since it's based on the Kappa platform (small car, RWD) and the segment is listed as "SP" which I can only guess is "Sport".

The other interesting thing I see is on the DCX page. There should be a Neon replacement in '06, but the only thing I see is a Compact XUV. Could the Neon replacement be something like a mini-Magnum, similar in size and configuration to the Mazda 3 5 Door?

I've seen some stuff that seems to indicate that the replacement for the Neon is going to be kinda funky. Is DCX's "MK" platform the shared one with Mitstubishi?

[Mr1der]

going on Automotive News Weekly...the Zeta platfrom should be pretty sweet....

I still don't like GM anymore though. Tricking you into thinking your buying a good car...

[BadMojo]

I still don't like GM anymore though. Tricking you into thinking your buying a good car...

Well, the Kappa cars look good in theory. Where GM has had a problem, IMO, is the execution. Hopefully they don't **** up the Pontiac Solstice and whatever its Saturn cousin is called. I'm not holding my breath. Still, a company like GM developing a small car RWD platform is really cool and perhaps will start a trend (ahem...Nissan, are you listening?).

[ilovedrifting]

Nissan > GM

[Mr1der]

I think GM's problem is the die hard owners...

I dunno...venting I guess, seems it's a tough life for a Ford owner. They're the largest auto company in the world, yet it seems everyone takes jabs at them...sure the build quality sucks and all, but damn, GM is no better.

for example, guy I know has his '02 Avalanche in the shop for the 3rd time on the transmission. The truck has 22k on it.

My old pos tbird has 176k on the clock with no rebuild and runs fine. It seems to have some blowback now but hell, it's a forced induction car from '89, you ask me it's in good shape (haha not body and interior though)

I dunno...I'm waiting to see how the '05 cars are gonna pan out. It looks as if the GT is setting the pace for the new stuff. Those cars are just beautifully built. (I'd make a few changes in the interior, they went too "modern" , the shifter and dash look very uninspired.)

just venting...wonder how the next Camaro will look though...

[Dirtylou]

So I'm guessing that the Zeta platform is a FR layout. THat means FR Montes and Impalas too?! I've always liked the FR MC and Impala SS.

[NSR_s30]

Nissan > GM

Cool that GM would be releasing some new cars, hopefully they'll be decent. Also cool they're bringing the camaro back like Jerry said. It's like a tradition.

[574-240sx]

Can't believe they are going to make a H4 with the current H2 sales. I live a few miles from the hummer plants. They keep cutting jobs and did away with the second shift totally.

[JESTER]

1der,

I was one of the die hard chevy owners, until I bought my old Sentra, and Tacoma. Now I realize that all cars do not have the kind and amount of problems my chevys did.

Anyway, I will stop before I get on an anti-chevy roll.

[jdmfreak]

Good luck GM. Make me happy. And yea Hummer sales are a joke.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I thought they were done with the camaro?

Most of us expected it to come back, but not nearly this soon. I'm glad to see a new FR platform out there. Maybe we can see another Impala SS. GM is definitely on a good streak. They're fixing Saturn (no more plastic cars, just another GM division--a lower priced one, mind you, but not so oddball anymore) they've created a Porche-killing sexy beast in the C6 and the ZO6 isn't even out yet (7 liters!). And now they are bringing back one of my favorite muscle cars, and in doing so, bringing back the most pimp-tacular sedan this world has ever seen: The Impala SS! I just hope they don't screw any of it up.

I hope with this new Camaro, GM can show FoMoCo what a REAL sports car is and have it make at least 340 horses, and have IRS. If they can do those two things, the Mustang is screwed.

There should be a Neon replacement in '06

Er...The Neon is a DiamlerChrysler car, not GM.

[Jesda]

And in time, the Neon will be a rebadged Mitsu.

[MinisterofDOOM]

That could actually be a good thing. Bring back the Mirage and the sell it as a Neon as well...

Wait, was that serious?

Actually, Jesda, it looks like Mitsu will be gone soon. Completely. Good riddance for the most part. The only good car left is the Evolution. The used to kick a lot of ***, and the Diamante was one of my favorite cars, but Mitsu's gone to hell the last few years.

DiamlerChrysler, who owns 1/4 of it is refusing to provide any funds, and that's the least of their problems. I wouldn't expect the Diamond Star thing to last a whole lot longer.

[Jesda]

The Mitsubishi-Neon plan was originally considered before the Daimler takeover. The idea still had strong support at DC until Mitsu ran into problems.

Its still a possibility, but its likeliness is about 50/50.

Finbar O'Neill, an expert at raising sinking ships, is head cheese at Mitsu NA. We'll see how that pans out.
Modified by Jesda at 5:38 AM 12/13/2004

[JESTER]

Mustang screwed?? I will be forced to disagree with you there. Unless they make the camero a lot better looking, then Mr Stang has no problem. Most people buy cars based on looks.

On that note, do we know what the Camero is going to look like???? Hopefully better than the plain looking GTO.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The Camaro has always been better looking than the Mustang as far as I am concerned. There are only a few Mustangs that I didn't find dreadfully ugly, in fact. Anything from 1971 until 2004 has been vomitously ugly--not to mention gutless with poor handling and a bad ride. I don't think GM will have much trouble keeping on top of that. Besides, a vast majority of people actually consider the 2005 Mustang (one of the best looking, I think) to be incredibly ugly. Read letter submissions to car mags and Ford message boards. Most people hate it.

The GTO is a pontiac, and its a GTO. There is a reason it looks like it does. Same reason the original looked "mundane" in its day. The Pontiac Tempest was no special car. The Pontiac GTO was just a fast Tempest. Aside from that, who cares if it looks "mundane." Its far from ugly, and it'll whip the pants of most any other car in its price rance. Not only does it produce 400 hp but its also a good all around car. Can't beat that, even if it looked like a Mustang II. Anyone who whines about the current GTO doesn't understand the original. Go do some research. There's a lot in common between them. And even that ugly mundane pontiac will destroy the Mustang in nearly every way possible. Car and Driver just did a comparison of the Mustang and GTO. THe ONLY departments Mustang was ahead in were 70 mph cruising speed and gas milage. I don't think that matters much in sports cars, do you? Oh, and it's cheaper. CHEAP being the key word. The Mustang did win the comparison, but looking at the scores, I still can't figure out how. The GTO's collumn is nearly all red "best in test" numbers. The Mustang's is nearly all black.

I feel sorry for anyone who buys a Mustang because it "looks better" than the Camaro if the Camaro ends up making more power, handling better, and driving better. That's their own loss. I'm fairly sure the Camaro will do all of those.

Think about it. You're GM. You see this popular new sports car, but you notice people griping about a couple of things particularly. What do you do? You make a car in the same class that has everything the popular car does, without the issues. If they don't they're fools.

We're going to be back to the old Mustang versus Camaro rivalry, and if it were the sixties still, I'd say they both win. But the Mustang has proven itself to be an underpowered, poorly built, cheap econo-car with an optional V8 for the last 32 years. The Camaro is a sports car with packages from gutless to Corvette-class. The Mustang is most definitely in trouble.

Wow...that degraded into a Mustang-bashing post. Ooops.

My basic point is that I think that it won't be hard for GM to top the Mustang with the new Camaro, at least initially, since they have a very good example of what does and does not work: the Mustang itself. With IRS and more than 320 hp, the Mustang may suffer for a while. It'll always come back to the same back-and forth and the same overall stalemate (my personal opinion is that the Camaro has always been better--but it's little more than that).

------------------------------

As for the Mitsu thing, I hope O'Neill can save them and put them back in the shape they were in during the early-mid 90's. That's when Mitsu were at their best. The only good eclipse, the 3/S, the closest thing to a Maxima anyone has ever made (Diamante). That'd definitely earn my respect.
Modified by MinisterofDOOM at 5:56 AM 12/13/2004

[HashiriyaS14]

There are a billion H2's near me.

Part of my job is to keep track of auto industry sales figures, and I know that Hummer is a terrible franchise right now, but around here it's just sort of hard to believe. Damn things are everywhere.

Being a citizen of this country, I don't wish GM or Ford any ill will, but then again, I wouldn't feel too bad if the Hummer brand just went back to selling a few thousand H1's per year and left it at that....

[BadMojo]

Er...The Neon is a DiamlerChrysler car, not GM.

No...it's a *Daimler* Chrysler car. Anyway, I was just commenting on the Neon replacement since more than GM was on that chart.

Also, I just saw a really funky concept drawing that is supposedly the replacement for the Neon. My brain is still trying to process it. It's so bad that I miss the Neon already!

[Dirtylou]

Anyway you look at it it's a good time to be a car guy. Almost every manufacturer has something with a little go now. BTW, the Mustang Cobra/GT-R is going to have IRS. If/when the Camaro is released it should make for good rivalry with Ford and others. It seems like the more things change the more they stay the same.

[Jesda]

After the H3, and H4 turn out to be dismal failures, I bet GM will rebadge an Impreza (like with the Saab 9-2) as a Hummer H5 (for five doors! clever! ha!).

Please, GM, just let it die.

[I Need $$$]

IMO the new mustangs are cheap looking and feeling. When I first saw it in pictures I was like damn that will be nice. But then they went and made it all crappy. The speakers grills are cheap hunks of plastic thrown on there. the mirrors look like they would break off first time a shopping cart hit them. I think the only thing that has kept the mustang alive is that they are cheap. I saw a concept of an '06 camaro that an art student did and that thing looked wicked. Then again it would probably never look like that and probably have the same cheap look and feeling of the mustang. Oh and a comment to mr1der, all car manufacturers have there lemons. I've seen plenty of 6 series come in that won't start or have transmission problems.

[krazy skwerel]

The GTO is a pontiac, and its a GTO. There is a reason it looks like it does. Same reason the original looked "mundane" in its day. The Pontiac Tempest was no special car. The Pontiac GTO was just a fast Tempest. Aside from that, who cares if it looks "mundane." Its far from ugly, and it'll whip the pants of most any other car in its price rance. Not only does it produce 400 hp but its also a good all around car. Can't beat that, even if it looked like a Mustang II. Anyone who whines about the current GTO doesn't understand the original. Go do some research.

Mr. Doom I completely agree with you on the GTO. I keep saying to people who cares if it is plain look at the original GTO. Oi people dont listen. Now the Mustang II comment was uncalled for IMO. My little 74 Mustang may not be the fastest but damn it it got good gas milage and looked neat. Hell look at the camero of the mid 70's-2002 it really was just as lack luster. They handled horribly and they broke down a lot. The 2.8 liter 3rd Gen Camero is one of the weakest pieces of crap ever made, and that isn't even the smallest engine they offered. Too often people forget GM's foley of the 4 cylinder 3rd gen Camero. Now that is one pathetic machine. Lets face it american cars have been down hill for the last 30+ years. I just hope this fire they have lit under their *** dopesnt go out and they make decent cars once again. Though I will probly never buy them Rednecks need nice rides as much as the rest of us

[574-240sx]

There are a billion H2's near me.

Part of my job is to keep track of auto industry sales figures, and I know that Hummer is a terrible franchise right now, but around here it's just sort of hard to believe. Damn things are everywhere.

Being a citizen of this country, I don't wish GM or Ford any ill will, but then again, I wouldn't feel too bad if the Hummer brand just went back to selling a few thousand H1's per year and left it at that....

Sales droped 20-25% on the H1 too. Some of the non important employees don't bother having to show up on fridays in the H1 plant. Its very sad to see all these people out of work because of that but they are getting jobs at all the local RV makers.

[Dano]

it just me or does Saturn come up with the stupidest names.

-Dan