So, I ordered every part I will need for my motor rebuild except the block parts, i.e. bearings, rings, and whatever else turns out to be old. Still waiting on my machinist to finish tearing her down and tell me whats up.
I have tasked myself with tearing the head apart and doing a port match and spec out of the valves and guides, as that is about all I can do my precision measuring tool collection. I couldn't locate a source for a valve tool in town, and my buddy shawn and I got bored the other night. We came up with a nice substitute valve tool in about half an hour! It was made from a small piece of pipe that is used for the top rail of chain link fence, something I had laying around that fit in the hole pretty well. We had to warp the end that went into the head a little to make good contact all around the retainer so it wouldn''t jam in the pipe. No marring of the head at all and it took about 2 hours to get the valves out and into labelled bags with each valve and its pieces together.
New batch of build pics, or rather tear down and parts collection right now...
Re: New batch of build pics, or rather tear down and parts collec ... (zmannz)
I pulled every last bit of wiring and stuff I need from my s13 chassis tonight. I can now sell that car all together and focus solely on finishing the fc chassis as much as possible until my little ca is ready to go in!!!
And, last but not least:
And, last but not least:
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bentvalves
- Posts: 1435
- Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:58 am
- Car: 89 Silvia K's
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bentvalves
- Posts: 1435
- Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:58 am
- Car: 89 Silvia K's
Re: (DALAZ_68)
EGR port I believe needs blocking on the DE head.
Drysump is the opposite of wet sump. Where our motors pick oil up from the bulge in the pan via oil pump, a dry sump system picks it up from a remote mounted resevoir elsewhere in the vehicle/bay The benefits are numerous including reduced windage, and CONSTANT solid oil pressure no MATTER what the condition.
Drysump is the opposite of wet sump. Where our motors pick oil up from the bulge in the pan via oil pump, a dry sump system picks it up from a remote mounted resevoir elsewhere in the vehicle/bay The benefits are numerous including reduced windage, and CONSTANT solid oil pressure no MATTER what the condition.
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bentvalves
- Posts: 1435
- Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:58 am
- Car: 89 Silvia K's
Re: (ks13)
where will you be plumbing the oil feed to the block?
Re: (ks13)
in other words its a small sized bottle of oil that always full and no matter how much spins and twist the oil level stayed the same?ks13 wrote:EGR port I believe needs blocking on the DE head.
Drysump is the opposite of wet sump. Where our motors pick oil up from the bulge in the pan via oil pump, a dry sump system picks it up from a remote mounted resevoir elsewhere in the vehicle/bay The benefits are numerous including reduced windage, and CONSTANT solid oil pressure no MATTER what the condition.
so in other words its... oil pan...sump...oil pump ...motor
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bentvalves
- Posts: 1435
- Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:58 am
- Car: 89 Silvia K's
Re: (DALAZ_68)
its a rather tall cylinder of oil, with the feed going to the pump being located on the bottom of that cylinder. And yes no matter what the force, oil will always be supplied to the inside of the motor.
the oil pan is also no longer a pan/sump, but rather a crank cover....no big bulge at one end.
the oil pan is also no longer a pan/sump, but rather a crank cover....no big bulge at one end.
Re: (ks13)
This is just a first stage of testing sort of thing right now, I have to mount up the pump to the block still and get my new pan finished up before anything else dry sump gets worked on. But the plan for now is to integrate the feed into an adapter that also redirects the filter to a remote location. I have seen a couple of ford 2.3t's with this sort of setup.ks13 wrote:where will you be plumbing the oil feed to the block?
I am having the machinist leave all the plugs and **** out of the block until tuesday so I can get up there and play around with this idea and some others. I have already "deactivated" my stock oil pump; the housing is actually still going to serve as an oil passage for the motor, it just won't have any pieces turning or a sump attached to it. That leaves us with another good place to play with getting the oil feed right. The best thing about it all is that I can now push as much oil pressure into the motor as I want, and the motor really needs it for the head so long as i can get it to evacuate just as well.
We have been doing some projections based on charts of 350 sbc's with this same pump to try and get an idea of the vacuum I could possibly pull on the block with just two pan pickups, and it may be able to keep the bottom end at neutral pressure at least. If I can get a manifold or something that lets me get more than two scavenge lines on there, I will be set.
I have proven through some math that the stock setup ca18det can't even flow the max amount of oil this pump will pump at max pressure without staying nearly too cool to run, with ten quarts of oil in the system and my oil cooler. So, if those two extra scavenge lines become reality, they will be going to the back of the head, one on the exhaust and one on the intake side. If not, I will set up the drain back mod to the pan right beside one of my main scavenges, and that will at least pull more fluid off the top during acceleration, witch should eliminate most of the oil escaping the head out the breathers.
Re: (DALAZ_68)
heh, wouldn't you like to know! JK, I bought it used on ebay for around 500 dollars. I still have to fab a mount for it and get the gear drive kit for the front.
Re: (ks13)
The dry sump doesn't do away with the sump all together, you still need a thin sump (I refer to it as the scavenger sump).
The reason you need this is oil will still accumulate at the bottom of the crankcase and will need returning to the resivour. So it falls into the sump and is returned by the scavenger pump/s (which will likely be the two grey bits with the blue fittings on this particular pump).
Here is an example:
http://www.moroso.com/articles/images/drysump.gif
There are disadvantages to using a dry sump, the greatest risk I see is increased points of failure. This is something you would do when you have no choice in the matter, such as this project.
Another method is by using an oil accumulator, you still have the original sump, but there is a resivour tank that feeds extra oil when pressure falls.
This site has a lot of information about it:
http://www.stockcarracing.com/....html
This system, although not as risky, is not as superior as the dry sump, however it is more cost effective and easier to install.
The reason you need this is oil will still accumulate at the bottom of the crankcase and will need returning to the resivour. So it falls into the sump and is returned by the scavenger pump/s (which will likely be the two grey bits with the blue fittings on this particular pump).
Here is an example:
http://www.moroso.com/articles/images/drysump.gif
There are disadvantages to using a dry sump, the greatest risk I see is increased points of failure. This is something you would do when you have no choice in the matter, such as this project.
Another method is by using an oil accumulator, you still have the original sump, but there is a resivour tank that feeds extra oil when pressure falls.
This site has a lot of information about it:
http://www.stockcarracing.com/....html
This system, although not as risky, is not as superior as the dry sump, however it is more cost effective and easier to install.
Re: (meminto)
Just a reminder, the original reason for the dry sump system was to get the motor to fit with out massively re-engineering the car's firewall and subframe (it is being put into an rx-7); my goal was to get the car running first and show that it is operable without engineering a new vehicle out of an old one just to fit a motor. My personal forte' that makes me feel competent enough to accomplish the build is my ability to get parts and systems to work together well in any situation or space. My second goal, conceived since starting this build, is to create the most efficient motor I can to get a good blend of gas mileage and performance with relatively little displacement, and long term high performance reliability.
Now, delusions aside, I have been fully convinced of this technology since my first research into dry sump oiling. There are SO many benefits to this, and believe it or not, I have heard of no real reliability issues with dry sump setup motors that were not caused by poor design or installation of either the oiling parts or the motor itself. Some chevy LS v8's have low oil pressure no matter what with higher oil temps, and it has been shown that this was actually attributable to loose clearances in the rod and crank bearings and the lack of extra oil moving about in the crankcase and higher crank case air pressure to accomodate it. So on and so forth.... But here are the most important benefits to them I have found:-as long as motor is tight and well maintained with no parts nearing failure anyway, dry sump systems pull more pressure from the crankcase which in turn keeps the differential pressures acting on the oil seals more even, which increases the sealing ability of the seals;- reduces overall engine wear by providing more consistent and reliable oil delivery with no possibility of cavitation;-increases efficiency of the motor by reducing windage on crank which results in a net increase in horsepower output.-you can see and visually inspect, with ease, any part of the oiling system at any time and know more about your motor;-system runs cleaner over time and won't gunk up nearly as quickly as the stock system with standard crank case pressures and the regular filter system;-motor runs cooler because it has so much more oil capacity that it acts like a secondary radiator if you have an oil cooler on it.
Where is it unreliable?
Now, delusions aside, I have been fully convinced of this technology since my first research into dry sump oiling. There are SO many benefits to this, and believe it or not, I have heard of no real reliability issues with dry sump setup motors that were not caused by poor design or installation of either the oiling parts or the motor itself. Some chevy LS v8's have low oil pressure no matter what with higher oil temps, and it has been shown that this was actually attributable to loose clearances in the rod and crank bearings and the lack of extra oil moving about in the crankcase and higher crank case air pressure to accomodate it. So on and so forth.... But here are the most important benefits to them I have found:-as long as motor is tight and well maintained with no parts nearing failure anyway, dry sump systems pull more pressure from the crankcase which in turn keeps the differential pressures acting on the oil seals more even, which increases the sealing ability of the seals;- reduces overall engine wear by providing more consistent and reliable oil delivery with no possibility of cavitation;-increases efficiency of the motor by reducing windage on crank which results in a net increase in horsepower output.-you can see and visually inspect, with ease, any part of the oiling system at any time and know more about your motor;-system runs cleaner over time and won't gunk up nearly as quickly as the stock system with standard crank case pressures and the regular filter system;-motor runs cooler because it has so much more oil capacity that it acts like a secondary radiator if you have an oil cooler on it.
Where is it unreliable?
Re: (zmannz)
I don't understand why people cannot read posts correctly nowdays. I also don't understand why people become defensive and think they have to justify to the world why they are doing something.
Dude you don't have to justify your reasons, you already expalined why you need to use it.
I never questioned the reliability of the system, the system is quite reliable if setup correctly, I mentioned that there is greater risk.
I didn't go into detail on benefits or detriments, people can research on there own. I also understand why you are using the system, as I said you have no choice in this project...
I already know the advantages of these systems, I was merely trying to provide other alternatives to consider if other people are looking at this modification.
Dude you don't have to justify your reasons, you already expalined why you need to use it.
I never questioned the reliability of the system, the system is quite reliable if setup correctly, I mentioned that there is greater risk.
I didn't go into detail on benefits or detriments, people can research on there own. I also understand why you are using the system, as I said you have no choice in this project...
I already know the advantages of these systems, I was merely trying to provide other alternatives to consider if other people are looking at this modification.