new 5zigen wheel

[proimport17]

Does anyone have any information on when the new fno1r-c wheel will be available? I saw pictures of it from SEMA and i would like to get a set.

[Nismo_Freak]

There is no release date at this moment.

[Pumaking]

Ooo I wouldn;t mind seeing some pics please.

[Nismo_Freak]

Take a look on our website.

http://www.splparts.com

[Dano]

i like the full polish, i dont like the center of the black ones not being black...ugh..

-Dan

[Nismo_Freak]

i like the full polish, i dont like the center of the black ones not being black...ugh..

-Dan

They will be black in the center... partially in thanks to me.

[BaliLover]

So the new FNs are going to have a polished lip? If so then they finally made the wheel fit what I'm looking for perfectly.

Now if they'd make it in killer offsets and widths and 4 LUG. I'd love a 17x10 in 4 lug for the rear of an S13.

[Nismo_Freak]

http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=91631

Update on the 17x9 in 4-lug.

[InsanityInc]

why in the world would you need a 10 inch wide wheel? Are you making 500+ ft/lbs or something?

[Nismo_Freak]

why in the world would you need a 10 inch wide wheel? Are you making 500+ ft/lbs or something?

Why does the amount of power being produced have any bearing on the width of wheel that is acceptable for his application? Do you think a wider wheel will hinder his vehicles performance? Perhaps you'd like to back up these aligations with fact? Perhaps a little more information with your opinion will give it enough weight to sink.

[InsanityInc]

Why does the amount of power being produced have any bearing on the width of wheel that is acceptable for his application? Do you think a wider wheel will hinder his vehicles performance? Perhaps you'd like to back up these aligations with fact? Perhaps a little more information with your opinion will give it enough weight to sink.

Because generally a wider wheel means you're running a wider tire. Or is he sticking 205/40/17's on his 10" wide wheel? Somehow I doubt it. Also, a 10" wide wheel is heavier than a thinner wheel by a fair amount, so that in and of itself will also hinder performance. In addition, if you're running tires that are too wide for your power output (in rear) and vehicle weight (in front), you're wasting accelerative energy on the increased force of friction generated by the overly wide tires.

[BaliLover]

I'm at 315 rwhp right now, and I'm working on upgrading to more with a new turbo, cams, and intake. I expect to see 400hp or damn near close to it.

But no, traction isn't my issue, I just love the way a wide wheel looks, and the 10" wide 5Zigens have a really deep look that the 9"ers don't have. The centers are sunken in.

[Nismo_Freak]

Because generally a wider wheel means you're running a wider tire. Or is he sticking 205/40/17's on his 10" wide wheel? Somehow I doubt it. Also, a 10" wide wheel is heavier than a thinner wheel by a fair amount, so that in and of itself will also hinder performance. In addition, if you're running tires that are too wide for your power output (in rear) and vehicle weight (in front), you're wasting accelerative energy on the increased force of friction generated by the overly wide tires.

I seem to have forgotten that acceleration is the only measured form of performance any more. Nevermind braking, nevermind road handling capability.

A 17x10 wheel is only 1 lb. heavier than the 17x9 wheel generally. The tire difference in load rating and overall contact patch geometry is more than enough to quantify running a wider tire.

Friction from the tire is relative to the speed you are traveling, you are talking about a minor tenth of a difference between a 245 and a 275. Hell you could gain that by opting for less weight, but that's always something people aren't willing to do. They all want A/c, they all want a stereo, etc. Performance is about sacrifice, you have to give up something to gain something. It's all about whos willing to do what.

[nisYHralli]

couldn't you just get the regular fn01rc and get the rim polished the same way people polish valve covers and such? sounds cheaper.

[InsanityInc]

I seem to have forgotten that acceleration is the only measured form of performance any more. Nevermind braking, nevermind road handling capability.

So, you think I should throw a 400/20/17 tire on a 2700lb car? After a certain point, your tires aren't going to be the limiting factor for braking or handling. That's why FR sports cars tend to have far smaller tires on the front than the rear.

Quote »A 17x10 wheel is only 1 lb. heavier than the 17x9 wheel generally. The tire difference in load rating and overall contact patch geometry is more than enough to quantify running a wider tire.[/quote]Not really. As I said, the extra 5-10mm of contact patch isn't helping you at all in a car that light, unless it's on the rear and you're making an inordinate amount of torque.

Quote »Friction from the tire is relative to the speed you are traveling, you are talking about a minor tenth of a difference between a 245 and a 275. Hell you could gain that by opting for less weight, but that's always something people aren't willing to do. They all want A/c, they all want a stereo, etc. Performance is about sacrifice, you have to give up something to gain something. It's all about whos willing to do what. [/quote]Minor tenth of a difference? Tenth of a what? Tenth of a Newton? It's far more than .1N difference to your force of friction (unless they're really bad tires). In case you weren't aware, friction = traction, it's the same thing. If you're not breaking traction, there's no reason to add more friction, and doing so will actually hinder the performance of your car. There's a reason why race cars don't run absolutley massive tires on front and rear (well, some run really big ones on the rear, but that's because they're making a TON of torque).

[aither]

What is going on here? Wider wheels= wider track and wider tires, which equals wider contact patch = better lateral acceleration numbers. If your class does not restrict tire/wheel width, then wider= better, with a nod to maintaining desired handling balence. Also, wider tires allow you to better control heat problems. Better heat capacity and wider track are things that any competitive car should desire, no matter the weight or power level. There is such a thing as too much weight, or too much tire, but 10" is not unreasonable.

So, what about having wide wheels, with super stretched tires and rim lips that extend beyond the fender of the car (if only slightly?). I am guessing that the extra width outside of the tire and fender is functioning as a longer lever arm, thus providing for less body roll and better lateral acceleration.

In my example, I have a problem with skinny 205 width tires chunking and falling apart on me while drifting in the texas sun. Too much heat, IMO, is the number one tire killer when drifting (compare tire wear when babying tires vs. trashing on them all out without rest lap after lap. Even if the number of laps stays constant, tires taken beyond what they can handle temp wise don't last long). So, my solution is going to be wider tires (235/45 R, 215/40 F) in the rear, with a super thick rear sway bar (usdm SPL). In order to run wider tires and maintain the feel I wanted for the sidewall, I decided to get wider wheels to run them on (9" minimum). This is on a stock KA powered S13, btw.

wide = good

[crzycav86]

As far as braking and lateral acceleration goes, the tires are most definitely the limiting factor. This is just common sense.

What keeps you from handling better? ..your tires' ability to maintain friction with the road.

What keeps you from stopping sooner? ..your tires' ability to maintain friction with the road. If you think it's your tiny stock 240sx brakes thats limiting you, you're wrong. If your leg is strong enough(and your brake components can handle the pressure), you can theoretically stop your car faster by getting stickier(bigger) rubber. Just push down on the pedal harder.

As far as contact patches is concerned, you may have forgotten that in handling(braking as well) the size of the contact patch changes. Remember that the contact patch is mainly a function of the weight applied to the tire. The profile and width of the tire play a role as well: they are the limiting factors in a tire's dynamic contact patch.

Here's how it breaks down:The length of the contact patch is constant for the most part. It is determined by the width of the tire.

The width of the contact patch is determined by the profile(length of the sidewall) of the tire. If you have a higher sidewall, you have a greater capacity to increase the width of the contact patch. The diameter of the wheel also plays a role in this as well. If you have trouble seeing this, I can make a picture illustrating it, but I think you're smart enough to picture it in your mind. EDIT: Note that I never said having a higher sidewall would give you better handling. According to what I'm saying, it would simply increase the dynamic contact patch.

Of course, the area of the contact patch is determined by the weight applied to it, but it's limited by those factors.

If any of what I'm saying is wrong(it frequently is), let me know and I'll stand corrected.

[veilside180sx]

All i know if switching to my wider rubber certainly helped my road feel and amount of lateral traction. Although i have 215/45 up front, and wish i had 235/40 up front like i do in the rear. I don't think you can have to much rubber, well within reason. I'd go about as wide as you can fit under your fenders without looking retarded.

[InsanityInc]

As far as braking and lateral acceleration goes, the tires are most definitely the limiting factor. This is just common sense.

What keeps you from handling better? ..your tires' ability to maintain friction with the road.

Force of Friction in the acceleration equation is an inverse additive relationship. Force of Inertia increases multiplicitively with speed. While a wider and wider tire will technically improve your handling, you quickly reach a point where the difference to your handling is completely negligable, but the difference to your acceleration becomes very tangible. There are many, many more things that factor into your handling than your tire size, as well. Maybe your tires can handle 2Gs, but if the rest of your car can't, then it's not very useful.

Quote »What keeps you from stopping sooner? ..your tires' ability to maintain friction with the road. If you think it's your tiny stock 240sx brakes thats limiting you, you're wrong. If your leg is strong enough(and your brake components can handle the pressure), you can theoretically stop your car faster by getting stickier(bigger) rubber. Just push down on the pedal harder.[/quote]Not really. If I press down as hard as I can on my brakes, all they'll do is lock up. No amount of contact patch is going to change that. Once again, after a certain point your tires stop being a limiting factor.

I'm not saying that you can run a racecar on 100/70/14 tires, I'm saying that there is such a thing as tires that are too wide.
Modified by InsanityInc at 2:08 AM 11/29/2004

[Exar-Kun]

Holly misinformation and crappy speculation by the uninformed batman!

I prescribe reading or all of you! Stat!

Seriously guys. I can't even being to correct the miss-information going on here. It's like some of you have read just enough to get yourselves in trouble by bickering.

Yes, it sounds like I'm picking a fight with all of you, I'm not. I'm being honest. This forum has degenerated since my own, Dori^2, C-kwik and SmithSR's life problems/duties interfering with our jobs of keeping this kind of crap to a minimum.

There have been some truths in here, even good advice-but it's just been too conjecture and baseless assumptions being thrown out for me to sit by and watch this happen over and over...

So I'll make my statements, and its obvious looking over this debate that most people partaking in it shouldn’t be, and HAVEN'T read the FAQ.

Here we go anyways!

1. Wider is not always better. Get this out of your head. Race teams with heavy cars run wide, under inflated(relative to any tire YOU or 99% of the driving population will touch) tires, because when you have a wide tire, and under inflate it, you get a large, nearly square contact patch that is quite large. Increasing your traction.1a. this is not to say this same theory applies to street cars. Street tires have a diminishing rate of return with pressure. you can increase overall contact patch by reducing pressure, but you also create other problems including sidewall deformation under load, high speed load and stability and steering response....race tires are made with that in mind...you're tires aren't1b. Just because you see a wide wheel on a car doesn't mean it's a correct setup. I've seen more M3's and other track ready cars run the narrower tires with sticker compounds than vice versa. Unless you have both the tools, knowledge, and money to utilize tire, wheel and suspension measurements and setups....you probably shouldn't be beyond certain know results. This means that if you don't understand scrub radius, kingpin inclination, alignment measurements, void ratio and a host of other things, you shouldn't even begin to debate about why running a wide wheel may or may not be beneficial.1c. Wide wheels work on heavy cars because the additional poundage created the aforementioned squarer contact patch. There are only a few ways to increase traction/handling realistically:-Make the suspension keep the tire in better contact with the road under all conditions (IE flat with the road)..This usually isn't possible, but it is possible to optimize your suspension for your own purposes, increasing lateral grip by decreasing contact patch deformation by the suspension.-Get a larger contact patch. Contrary to popular belief (again! covered in the FAQ!) wide wheels don't "make more contact patch", all they do is widen it. This may or may not help your handling (and can hinder it substantially) , so choose carefully. You COULD get some tires that are made to run a lower air pressure, increasing contact patch area. But this is expensive (race tires cost money folks)-Get a larger contact area of the tread. This means getting a tire with larger tread blocks, or a lower void ratio. Putting more friction compound in contact with the road for the given contact patch. This is why tires like the BFgoodrich G-force KD and Falken Azenis RS do so well...they have low void ratios. There’s no 'magic compound', just a sticky compound and lots of it. Unfortunately this also means less area for water and noise to move, so these tires are noisy and have worse wet weather traction.-Get a sticker tire. The friction coefficient of a tire for a given heat range is what really makes a high performance tire what it is, some of them have more expensive, stickier, more heat stable compounds. These aren’t cheap. If you don't want to ante up for a good sticky tire, I don't want to hear about how you run a 'wide wheel for better handling' when running a stickier tire would have been a much better investment. Anyways, the stickier the compound, the quicker it wears, and sometimes depending on how 'good' the compound is ($$$$ related), it may result in heat tolerance ranges of stickiness and greasiness (silica does this, FYI)

Onto part 2:

2a. If you don't understand your cars suspension, DON'T mess with it. Leave it to people who DO. Read up, read books, READ THE FAQ, chat with racers at SOLO events, shops, etc if they let you. You’ll learn tons, and don't make stupid statements, learn to respectfully ask questions about things you don't know. 2b. Quit spreading misinformation. This is my biggest pet peeve, and I will be cracking down on it. If you don’t KNOW, Don’t say anything! FIND OUT! What the hell ever happened to just going 'you know, I don't know the answer to that" and trying to FIND IT? Lately it's all about what "you've heard" or "I read somewhere" screw that. Look it up and come back, or wait for someone who does know to answer the question. Wrong information (even if meant to be helpful) just leads to more confusion and the spread of miss-information as fact....baka.

ON performance:

THE TIRES GRIP ON THE ROAD IS YOUR PERFORMANCE LIMIT. PERIOD. CORNERING ACCELRATION, BRAKING, WHATEVER. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS.

This means, if you can increase your suspensions ability to keep the tire in proper alignment to the road, you'll perform better, if you have a sticker (heat tolerant) tire, you'll perform better, a lower void ratio tire will perform better because more compounds is on the road...

See where this goes? It's really that simple. Lower your car excessively, limiting load transfer/body roll, and other things all help TO A POINT, and then it hurts...ever head of "ideal frame height", and how that affects your suspensions reactions to the road?

Also, if you can lock your brakes, you need better tires. Once you experience heat fade from hard stopping with a sticky tire, then come crying to me about brakes being inadequate. Larger brakes won't stop you faster unless heat is what’s causing your brakes to not function properly.

I'm sick of typing, and this topic is closed. From now on, I see this kind of miss-information thrown around masquerading as a debate, I'm deleting it.

No go read up.

If you were offended-GOOD! Go read! Teach ME something!If you were offended, but not enough to look anything up, or learn something- GO TO ANOTHER BOARD YOU FREAKING LEECH.

-Chet

Pissed, frustrated, and tired of this crap.ASlo, dida nyone notice that that last debate didnt apply to this topic AT ALL! stay on topic people.

[AZhitman]

Good info from a man who nows his stuff.

BTW, the whole "contact patch size" issue took FOREVER to make sense to me. But with vehicle weight, air pressure, and tire diameter as a constant, the contact patch is NOT larger. It's wider, but it's shorter (front to back). Area remains constant.

Easier just to say, "I want wide tires because they look cool." You'll hear no argument from anyone on that logic.