need your guys' opinion on large turbos+CA's

[ch187]

right now im running a gt28r tuned for about 280whp. for next year i want to do something totally custom. i will be making my own intake and exhaust manifolds, and v band exhaust to suit. i want to see what i can get out of 1.8l of displacement. no real goals but i want to see over 400hp. i know TMS is using a t04e but im wanting something different. say a gt3076r? something along those lines.

ive been doing a lot of research and i will be doing a lot more thats why im setting this up for next season. im just looking for some opinions on turbo selection and engine management. for EM i will probably go SDS or Haltech but am not familiar with either. give me your opinions guys. sure big motors are more capable. but whats the fun in that? not sure what i want to do yet. forged rods, new hardware, hg, crank scraper, cam regrinds, a nice clutch. im just looking to build the meanest CA on the continent.

[themadscientist]

I hope to be done with my new engine by December and I really think I am going Haltech because I can migrate the system to any engine if I want, the SDS is locked in as a 4 or 6 cylinder. The maps look easier to tune because I can see them as they relate to each other where with the SDS the programmer only shows a few cells at a time. The Haltech can recognize just about any trigger pattern so I can retain the CAS and not have to go crank sensor as with the SDS. I'm still looking critically at the systems but at the moment the Haltech is in the lead. I like the E8 but the E6X honestly is all I need.Regarding the big turbos I have seen at least 1 CA18 1.9liter spinning a T8834D;thats a big mutha. My T04E is a perfect turbine but it ain't gettin me to the 400hp mark. I am going to likely sell the kit, turbo, manifold and wastegate to finance a T04S, T04R, or perhaps a T04Z. I have another manifold and wastegate so I'm ok. Check the link in my sig, that turbo was on a CA making big power, not sure exactly how much but it's an S compressor that will support over 400. I have the matching manifold for that too. I would like a T04Z or T04R mostly just so I could drop the name but a T04S would be fine.The CA18 can spin a big turbo but you will need to pick the right A/R and the right compressor for your power goals or you will be surging really bad.

[ch187]

sweet. thanks man. looks like i will see how yours turns out. Haltech seems pretty badass. i noticed last night that the SDS used a crank trigger and thats what shyed me away from MS awhile back. i found a CA manifold like the one your sell on zilvia and it came with a turbo and wastegate for like 400bucks. sounded to goo to be true. but i would love a cast manifold like that. if not im making a stainless piece. i'll definately look in the T04 turbos, that S is badass. so your saying a .64 exhaust, 70 compressor be good? i never really understood those much, just that the bigger the more lag. thanks for your input man. have you seen the 200sx on youtube that hit 497whp?

[The_Chosen_One]

Well MS is made to work with 95% of all OEM ignition. You dont HAVE to use the crank trigger that some of us use. Only reason why some of us went EDIS is because its more reliable. You've seen the threads where the CAS always caused issues and that stupid key breaks and your screwed.

Theirs a few peeps that have used the stock CAS with MS.

[r34 gtr]

the td06-25g is right down that alley of "still spools reasonably quickly" but its good to a lot of power (450). trust makes the proper manifold for the ca18 and you could probably modify one to fit a lhd relatively easy. sometime down the line i would like to replace my gt28 with a 18 or 20g and shoot for upper 300s, but for now ill be fine.

cas or not, you should see the spark my ford ignition system puts out. daaaamn!! its like a beating stick of current.

side note, my car is now fully functional. tach, coolant temp gauge, wideband correction, and everything! it also books it quite well for a mere 7psi of engine break-in pressure. now if only i could make it just a wee bit leaner across the board. i wont push my luck for today though.

tms, how bout that dr30?

[themadscientist]

I got a DR30 for you. In another month it will have rusted to the point I can ship it to you in about 1500 business-sized envelopes.

The TD06-20 through 25G is a very popular turbo for CAs. Most of the fast ones run them or an IHI RX6. There are a few T04R cars but they are in the minority.

Regarding the Trust manifold, it's a bottom-mount and the wastegate pipe trails down and back. I would be very concerned that it would fit with a steering shaft in the way even with heavy modification. Top mount is the way to go IMO, you only have to worry about the wastegate then.

[r34 gtr]

i remember on here someone saying they got the manifold to fit with a 14 or 15g. its probably incredibly close even if it does, but i HAVE heard it fits..

and you can take your skyline and cram it up your cram hole. send me a non-rusted one in 1500 business-sized envelopes.

[ch187]

a 25g could be an idea but i would have to look at it. those t04 series look promising though. manifold wise. the **** will be top mount. a one-off piece fabricated by me. along with the downpipe/dumptube to go with it. turbo and enigine management are my only concerns.

so how much power can a ca hold with the stock internals and with upgraded?

[themadscientist]

I would say 300hp unopened 700hp with prep. I say 700 because there are many stock block CAs in the 600s with seemingly no trouble.

[dash]

failing CAS and worn exhaust cam drive splines is certainly one drawback to consider.20G and the ever popular 50trim t3/t4 both made well over 400whp.

[ch187]

hmm i like the sound of that tms. i had just planned on using forged rods, good bearings, arp hardware, and a stock headgasket. any other suggestions. pistons really necessary? i hear the stocks are just as good as forged ones.

**** a t3/t4, that turbo is so played out. no fun in that. besides i would love to tell people i stuck a t4 on a 1.8l.

[kapower06]

The thing to remember is that with a big turbo, which covers pretty much all turbos when refering to the ca18, besides the t25 series, will not spool up soon or early in the power band. But the fact of the matter is that the ca18det is not known for its low end torque,but for its top-end, high-revving, and its ability to cope with major abuse as long as its tuned correctly.

Iam going to be running a gt3076r (.63 a/r) here shortly, im shooting for no less than 450whp.

The trick set-up would be a divided manifold, gt35r divided turbine housing, and a custom 3 inch downpipe. that would see well into the 600whp range with decent spool. (full boost around 4600-5000 rpm,maybe sooner )

[bentvalves]

dude all you need is pistons, thats the weak point if your going into the motor.

stock rods are fine.

nissan engineers knew a thing or two when this motor was designed.

your motor will be more reliable with stock rods/stock matched bearings (numbers on crank, numbers on block) and some forged pistons.

measuring clearances is extremely critical, and alot of the time even though you may have paid for it, doesnt mean the machine shop did it.

double triple check all lower end clearances.

[r34 gtr]

for big power, the gt35r is a real winner, but do you really think it would spool that quickly? i was thinking over 5, but at mid 4's it wouldnt even be that much slower spooling than my gt28. it would come on a little different though, with the gt28 feeling like stubbing your toe, and the gt35r feeling like butterbean sucker punching you in the back of your head.

[mbmbmb23]

I'd make sure to run an oil cooler also.

[ch187]

some interesting ideas. whats the whole thing with the divided manifold? i could easily do it but what advantages does it give? gt35r would be a possiblity also, i looked into it but i just thought it was too big and lag horribly. im looking for the 4000-4500 range.

[dash]

so because a t3/t4 or 20g is "so played out", you think they can'tperform with the best of 'em ? Guess again.They're 'small' enough to net you decent response but still get wildwhen "set on kill"... with a hella strong torque curve.Theres ALOT more to a street car than a "peak hp number" from a bigger turbo.

Prime example;http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=22430650trim on 1.8L miata 493hp atw on pump gas, stock cams! 400+ ft-lbs tqfrom 4500-6500rpm, 300+ @~4100 is superb. Doesn't get any better. quote; "guys at agp turbo told me it would..they sell the 3076 andbb50 trim and they prefer the 50".Don't mind the hype

BTW same miata now @538whp (gained 40+ hp) switching to a performanceintake cam... exactly what I've been saying/planning for my ca18

Big Tone old td06/20g perhaps my favorite 400+ street ca18 setup.

the 497hp ca18 video in this thread runs a gt35 with a nice custommanifold. Check the link. See that tq curve ? Is that what you're after ?

[kapower06]

the divided housing are really sweet on any turbo. They allow the exhaust pulses to hit the turbine in pairs, 1-3, 2-4. instead of all together. It stops reversion, makes more power, reduces back pressure, improves spool and increases efficiency. If you can afford it go divided housing turbo and custom divided mani.

[themadscientist]

dude all you need is pistons, thats the weak point if your going into the motor.

stock rods are fine.

nissan engineers knew a thing or two when this motor was designed.

your motor will be more reliable with stock rods/stock matched bearings (numbers on crank, numbers on block) and some forged pistons.

measuring clearances is extremely critical, and alot of the time even though you may have paid for it, doesnt mean the machine shop did it.

double triple check all lower end clearances.

I disagree.What fails on the CA? Rod bolts. CA18 rod bolts are small and they stretch. Even if you get upgraded bolts they are still the same size just a better material. For someone going for 400s I would ditch them completely. For pistons, they both melt. Any piston will fail if abused even forged ones. You will need to replace pistons on a rebuild anyway. The only CA piston failures I have seen personally is destroyed piston lands from detonation at the quench pads.I am not confident I could build a 500+hp engine and tune it perfect. I can't afford a $10,000.00 "whoops" so I am shooting for 400hp. This is what I will be doing.First I am going 2.0 liter with a tall deck block so I will have an advantage over the 18 builders; bigger piston crown area, longer stroke and improved rod angles. I will also enjoy larger rod journals and piston pins.

For the machine work I will have the head and block decked to ensure they are perfectly square for optimum sealing. I will have the valve guides replaced with bronze ones and check that all the valves are straight and riding in their seats correctly. I will be cutting out the quench pads for high boost work to combat detonation.

I will use heavy duty valve springs and titanium retainers for higher RPM stability. Notice I say "higher" not "high". I do not subscribe to the opinion that a CA18 is particularly "revable". The valves are small and the ports are not very big. I don't think it will flow much better in the super high RPMs so to me it would be needless to beat the **** out of the bottom end running the motor up to 9k if the head can't flow it anyway. Just my opinion based upon what I am looking at, I have no data, use your own judgement. I will be using a 4-port head which should help; it has more port area.

For the bottom end were I using a CA18 crank I would definately have it dynamic balanced, preferrably with the bobweights to simulate the piston and rod weights but at the minimum balanced to itself and bring the rod and piston combos as close to each other in weight as I could. I will be using pauter rods and wiseco pistons.

400hp is over twice the power the CA18 had from the factory, this is nothing to take lightly. We are working with a 1.8 liter here gents, it has to work harder than other engines to make the same power and that takes prep. Go to your fridge and take out that big plastic bottle of Coke. That's 2 liters! That is more than displacement than these engines have and we are asking it to contain and transmit 400hp! Show some love and give your engine the tools to do the job. I would trust a stock CA18 long block to 300hp, it can take it. Past that, the amount of beating and your margin for error start ramping up very steeply and it's not a matter of if but when something falls short. A voltage dip hiccups your fuel pump, an actuator hose pops off, thermostat jams and temps shoot up etc, silly $6 **** and BOOM!

I am going to build my motor to make power below 8k on large volumes of boost. I am selecting parts and methods as if I was going for 600hp. I like to overengineer, I drive like an *** and I need redundancy in my mill for those moments when I am not using good judgement. Stock parts were not designed with big power in mind. They were designed to just barely exceed expectations withing budgetary limits, not the breeding ground for overengineering.

I could see trying to do it on stock gear myself just for ****s and giggles, to see if I could, but I could not in good concience advise another to do the same.

[boost_boy]

Very deep "mad", but I seriously think the stock CA can take much more than 300whp, however, most people here struggle to get to that point. Folks, 300whp is nothing to sneeze at and you don't need a massive turbo to do it. The ideal turbo for a street CA18DET should be one that doesn't come on to full boost before 3500rpm. For all the turbos that do, they are just "Cute" in my opinion.

As I've stated before, the GT35R seems to like the CA very well, but I'm basing this off a car that I've tuned with a standalone engine management system, a seriously custom snake-like turbo manifold, huge injectors, a huge intercooler and massive piping, to conclude with a 3inch down pipe and 40mm hks wastegate. The transisition between gears is amazing and gives my car with T3/T4 60-1 a run for it money.

My objective is to take that stock CA in the B13 sentra and churn out 500+whp on an internally stock CA18DET. I think it can be done and since I'm doing the tuning, I'm taking full responsibilty for the engine if it lets go, so the owner has nothing to lose.

I will be changing the T3/T4 on my sentra for something sweet and will be shooting for a little bit more than 500whp. I've changed some plans on my built engine which is now semi-disassembled in hopes of seeing somewhere near the 700whp, but as for now, it is just a thought.

Bottom line is to find a horsepower goal and pick the most efficient turbo that'll get you there. No need to rev the engine to 1,000,000rpm if it's not equipped as you're only going to mash up your bottom end. A decent turbo manifold, intercooler, engine management, and injectors are some of the most important ingredients. But none of that stuff mean jack if your tuner or your tuner skills are not up to par. Good luck .

Dee

[ch187]

the GT35R seems to like the CA very well, but I'm basing this off a car that I've tuned with a standalone engine management system, a seriously custom snake-like turbo manifold, huge injectors, a huge intercooler and massive piping, to conclude with a 3inch down pipe and 40mm hks wastegate

eh..sounds about right.

well the plans so far. forged pistons and rodscams of some sortknife-edged crank/crankscraper(maybe, havent done extensive research on it yet)my own intake manifoldq45 throttle"snake like exhaust manifold"either a gt35r, t04x, gt3076rhaltech or MS

rev no more than 8k, i dont do 8k now but if theres power there then sure. im just throwing my ideas out right now. im getting my turbo back from precision tomorrow, but the way ive been thinking, im going to get bored of the gt28r quick.

i appreciate your guys' posts. you have enlightened me beyond belief. TMS, i admire you overengineering attitude, and your knowledge. i was wondering how long it would take boost boy to get on here.

and this week will be crunch time for my car as i havent driven it in 2 weeks. its getting dynoed with the gt28r setup, we'll see how close to 300hp i can get it. welded diff and maybe start on my roll cage.

whats your idea of max boost in my case? im using 450cc injectors and a z32 maf and the tune is good for 20psi. how will i know if my injectors max? will my afr's reflect?