Need some help with an '06 M45 that blew its engine

[ntwrkguy1]

Hi All,

I've been lurking on this site for a few years, and was going to pull the trigger a couple of years back on an M45, but my kids' college expenses somehow took priority...

However, my father-in-law DID pull the trigger on an '06 M45 back in early 2008. At the time, it was a one-owner that had 48k on the clock. He lives in FL, and the original owner was from FL, so the car was extremely clean, and seemed to be very well cared for. He actually took the car to his local Infiniti dealer for an initial service (50k, I'm guessing), and they did the requisite service on it.

Fast forward to Thanksgiving of 2009, with the car still under the 70k drivetrain warranty (68k on the odometer) The car began making a spectacular noise under the hood. He pulled over immediately, at which point the car was towed to the dealership. The dealership expressed shock, saying that "these V8's never have any problems".

The oil was at the change interval, but had not been changed. They asked my FIL for the maintenance records. The only thing he could not produce were the two oil changes that the previous owner had done in late 2007, just before he sold the car. Despite the fact that the drivetrain was under warranty, the dealership balked at the repair, saying they would have to get approval first. The dealership passed this case on to Infiniti Customer Service, who in turn asked the dealership to "take a picture of the engine". Here's where it gets weird: The Infiniti CS people said the pictures that the dealership sent showed the the engine was "dirty", and therefore they denied the claim. My gut instinct says that the inside of the engine -- since that's where the oil is -- might be a little dirty after 70k.

The whole thing sounds rather suspicious, especially after I read this recent post:

zer...-hood

My questions to the group are:

1. Is the oil-burning referenced in the link above a known issue with the '06+ M45's, and what is the root of it?

2. If the CS people deny the claim, is there any recourse (short of a lawsuit)?

3. Is there a history of Infiniti denying warranty claims within a warranty period?

I appreciate any and all help on this one!

-David

[dvan]

WOW MAN...Dejavu!!!!

Did the noise sound like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDQeCOJZcDM

Your problem sounds EXACTLY like mine. This noise ONLY came on after I had already been driving, and its loud as hell and just gets louder the higher the RPM's get. Mine came and went a few times, and luckly it came back a few weeks ago and i hurried up and drove to the dealer as soon as possible that way they would actually hear it them selves. It turned out to be a failed piston.

The funny thing with me is that I have only had the car since August this year, so I was able to get it approved with just one oil change receipt. I had a lot more receipts at home, but the only one I had on hand was the one in my car and the claim was accepted.

Here is what I suggest, have your dad goto every place he had his car serviced and ask them to print him a receipt of prior service visits. If he can document he changed the oil/took care of the car then I cant see how the claim could be denied.

He should really fight for this, because getting a new long block installed at an Infiniti dealership is like 15-16K dollars.

My dealership also told me something similar to "these V8's never have any problems".

[1scott]

ntwrkguy1-This is a design flaw in the V8 engine. It is such a shame on such a nice luxury car built by Nissan that they have not done anything about it. I had consulted a lawyer for my car but after much frunstration they covered the car. The lawyer wanted $3000 and said he would get a buy back since I purchased from a dealer. Also pull a Carfax as the service records could be shown on their if the previous owner did it a dealership. But even without this I would present facts as to the poor design as even wakopedia warns against this car engine vk45de. I think Infiniti should be pushed with a class action law suit. This posting site is mostly people who are in love with the M, so I found when I bash the car people get really affended. This problem even after its fixed will have an effect on the used car market. I would at least talk to Customer Service and write a letter pertaining to breach of warranty coverage.

[qship96]

My guess is the engine burned oil as many of them seem to do and owner did not check it often enough allowing it to operate on very little oil- causing high oil temps and coke/sludge to form...why it is filthy inside.

[ntwrkguy1]

dvan -- unfortunately, I wasn't there to hear the noise, but I bet it DID sound a lot like the clip you sent me. The good news is that my father-in-law has all of the receipts for the maintenance he did, but the dealership was breaking it off on him that he did not have all of the receipts from the previous owner. The interesting part is that the engine seized the first time it made the noise. Hopefully, they see things his way, since they can tell that the car has been well maintained -- and it is still under warranty!

1scott -- thanks for the good advice -- I will definitely pass it along to my father-in-law

qship -- any idea on WHY these engines are burning oil, or what the possible fix is? What you said makes sense, especially about the sludge buildup. But I'd like to think that an '06 Infiniti would be at least as durable as my '86 Maxima that I sold in 1996 with 245,000 on it. And it still ran like a champ!

[jazzy m45]

Hi All,

I've been lurking on this site for a few years, and was going to pull the trigger a couple of years back on an M45, but my kids' college expenses somehow took priority...

However, my father-in-law DID pull the trigger on an '06 M45 back in early 2008. At the time, it was a one-owner that had 48k on the clock. He lives in FL, and the original owner was from FL, so the car was extremely clean, and seemed to be very well cared for. He actually took the car to his local Infiniti dealer for an initial service (50k, I'm guessing), and they did the requisite service on it.

Fast forward to Thanksgiving of 2009, with the car still under the 70k drivetrain warranty (68k on the odometer) The car began making a spectacular noise under the hood. He pulled over immediately, at which point the car was towed to the dealership. The dealership expressed shock, saying that "these V8's never have any problems".

The oil was at the change interval, but had not been changed. They asked my FIL for the maintenance records. The only thing he could not produce were the two oil changes that the previous owner had done in late 2007, just before he sold the car. Despite the fact that the drivetrain was under warranty, the dealership balked at the repair, saying they would have to get approval first. The dealership passed this case on to Infiniti Customer Service, who in turn asked the dealership to "take a picture of the engine". Here's where it gets weird: The Infiniti CS people said the pictures that the dealership sent showed the the engine was "dirty", and therefore they denied the claim. My gut instinct says that the inside of the engine -- since that's where the oil is -- might be a little dirty after 70k.

The whole thing sounds rather suspicious, especially after I read this recent post:

zer...-hood

My questions to the group are:

1. Is the oil-burning referenced in the link above a known issue with the '06+ M45's, and what is the root of it?

2. If the CS people deny the claim, is there any recourse (short of a lawsuit)?

3. Is there a history of Infiniti denying warranty claims within a warranty period?

I appreciate any and all help on this one!

-David

Umm...That's my post...

Officially pooping pants now...

How long was the process between taking it in and denial of warranty coverage? Also, did the dealership or anybody you have talked to give you any recourse?
Modified by jazzy m45 at 7:19 PM 12/9/2009

[ntwrkguy1]

Hey jazzy m45,

It was exactly one week from when the dealer saw it until the CS people denied the warranty claim. According to my father-in-law, the dealership said if it were up to them, they would repair it under warranty, but they have to abide by the ruling of the CS group.

Nobody has really offered my father-in-law any recourse at this point. I sent him the links to the "oil consumption test" postings that have been discussed on this forum, and told him to take the matter to an attorney.

Any other thoughts or advice?

[dvan]

Hey jazzy m45,

It was exactly one week from when the dealer saw it until the CS people denied the warranty claim. According to my father-in-law, the dealership said if it were up to them, they would repair it under warranty, but they have to abide by the ruling of the CS group.

Nobody has really offered my father-in-law any recourse at this point. I sent him the links to the "oil consumption test" postings that have been discussed on this forum, and told him to take the matter to an attorney.

Any other thoughts or advice?

It just doesn't make sense...i had my engine replaced at 68K miles and apparently the service history of the previous owner didn't matter at all. You need to find out the fine print in the warranty to see if you really do need service history from the time it was new, that would seem ridiculous. Theres gotta be some wiggle room when it comes to that, if you can find the actual documentation about the factory warranty you may find a loophole.

[jazzy m45]

Hey jazzy m45,

It was exactly one week from when the dealer saw it until the CS people denied the warranty claim. According to my father-in-law, the dealership said if it were up to them, they would repair it under warranty, but they have to abide by the ruling of the CS group.

Nobody has really offered my father-in-law any recourse at this point. I sent him the links to the "oil consumption test" postings that have been discussed on this forum, and told him to take the matter to an attorney.

Any other thoughts or advice?

I talked to my service advisor today about your post (basically telling him that someone that I know has had this sort of claim and it got denied) and asked him what recourse there is for this sort of thing. He told me that after a denial it would be up to me or my insurance to pay for it (which didn't sound like a good answer to me). I'm already starting to research a failsafe in case they deny my claim.

The first thing I would do is call Infiniti CS at 1-800-662-6660. I found a copy of the manual booklet online and that's what it suggests...

From its text...Both Infiniti and your Infiniti dealer are dedicated to serving all your automotive needs. Your complete satisfaction is our primary concern. YourInfiniti dealer is available to assist you with all your automobile sales, parts and service requirements.If, however, a situation arises that you believe has not been addressed to your satisfaction, we ask that you take the following steps.STEP 1:Discuss the situation with the dealership management. If a problem still exists, contact the dealership’s owner. Your Infiniti dealer is best equippedto resolve the matter for you.STEP 2:If the concern has still not been addressed to your satisfaction, please contact our Infiniti Consumer Affairs Department using our toll free number:1-800-662-6200The Consumer Affairs Department will ask for the following information:• Your name, address, and telephone number• Vehicle identification number (on dashboardand permanent Infiniti Total Ownership programcard)• Date of purchase• Current odometer reading• Your Infiniti dealership’s name• Details of the concernOr you can write to Infiniti with the above information at:INFINITI DIVISIONNissan North America, Inc.Consumer Affairs DepartmentP.O. Box 47038Gardena, CA 90247-6838STEP 3:In the event that you believe Infiniti has been unable to satisfactorily address the problem, a special automotive complaint resolution program called AUTO LINE is available to you. The AUTO LINE program is independently operated by the Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc. (BBB). For information about the BBB AUTO LINE in your area, please call us (Infiniti) at the same toll free number (1-800-662-6200). We will be happy to provide you with the address and phone number of your local BBB office or any other information about AUTO LINE.Or you may contact the BBB at:AUTO LINECouncil of Better Business Bureaus, Inc.4200 Wilson Blvd.Arlington, Virginia 222031 (800) 955-5100If you call, the BBB staff will record the details of your complaint by telephone. They will ask for the same information as in Step 2.

From http://www.infinitiusa.com/pdf....pdf

[dvan]

This is exact what is stated as far as YOUR(in this case, your dad) obligation to Nissan when it comes to showing service history:

MAINTENANCE AND RECORDSAs a condition of this warranty, you are responsiblefor properly using, maintaining and caring for yourvehicle as outlined in your Owner’s Manual, and ofmaintaining copies of all maintenance records &receipts for review by Nissan. Failure to do so islikely to result in the denial of warranty.Evidence of the performance of the required maintenanceshould be kept and may need to be presentedas proof of such maintenance in connectionwith related warranty repairs. To assist you in maintainingappropriate records, the Maintenance Loglocated in your Owner’s Literature Kit can be usedalong with supporting repair invoices, receipts andother such records.

So what does that mean? To me it simply states that you are responsible for doing the proper maintenance on your vehicle. However, when the previous owner owned it, it wasn't 'your' vehicle and therefore you are not responsible for that owners maintenance habits.

It doesn't state that all second handowners must obtain proof of service history from the original owner, otherwise it will be used against you.

Since your dad apparently has performed proper maintenance since the beginning of 2008, that is MORE than enough history needed for any warranty work.

[jazzy m45]

This is exact what is stated as far as YOUR(in this case, your dad) obligation to Nissan when it comes to showing service history:

MAINTENANCE AND RECORDSAs a condition of this warranty, you are responsiblefor properly using, maintaining and caring for yourvehicle as outlined in your Owner’s Manual, and ofmaintaining copies of all maintenance records &receipts for review by Nissan. Failure to do so islikely to result in the denial of warranty.Evidence of the performance of the required maintenanceshould be kept and may need to be presentedas proof of such maintenance in connectionwith related warranty repairs. To assist you in maintainingappropriate records, the Maintenance Loglocated in your Owner’s Literature Kit can be usedalong with supporting repair invoices, receipts andother such records.

So what does that mean? To me it simply states that you are responsible for doing the proper maintenance on your vehicle. However, when the previous owner owned it, it wasn't 'your' vehicle and therefore you are not responsible for that owners maintenance habits.

It doesn't state that all second handowners must obtain proof of service history from the original owner, otherwise it will be used against you.

Since your dad apparently has performed proper maintenance since the beginning of 2008, that is MORE than enough history needed for any warranty work.

I'll try this if my claim gets denied, but I doubt they'll take that as "sufficient." I mean, it's not my fault that I don't have the records, but it's also not theirs, so I can respect their side of it. At the same time though, it's their warranty, and they didn't specify those things, so it shouldn't be held against us.

[1scott]

Infiniti had a class action lawsuit on faulty brakes on the 2003-4 G35. The law firm was http://[email protected]. I honestly think Infiniti should own up to this problem and make a resolution for owners such as Lexus did with the V6 sludge issues in the late 90's. I think all lexus owners got an unlimited mileage 10 year power train warranty. I think its time to get some action from Infiniti M45 owners to make Infiniti move on this issue. When my EOC started I saw some posts show owners of 07s with as little as 20kmi already suffering from EOC. Time to drop them an email.

[jazzy m45]

Infiniti had a class action lawsuit on faulty brakes on the 2003-4 G35. The law firm was http://[email protected]. I honestly think Infiniti should own up to this problem and make a resolution for owners such as Lexus did with the V6 sludge issues in the late 90's. I think all lexus owners got an unlimited mileage 10 year power train warranty. I think its time to get some action from Infiniti M45 owners to make Infiniti move on this issue. When my EOC started I saw some posts show owners of 07s with as little as 20kmi already suffering from EOC. Time to drop them an email.

Call it tired, but what's EOC?

[1scott]

No actually looks like my bad, I am tired, putting the kids down to bed now. Excessive Oil Consumption EOC, thought I put it in the text before abbreviation. Sorry.

[jazzy m45]

No actually looks like my bad, I am tired, putting the kids down to bed now. Excessive Oil Consumption EOC, thought I put it in the text before abbreviation. Sorry.

It's ok. At least now I understand. I didn't know that the issues start as low as 20k! That's not a good thing at all. They have to know about it. I asked someone in my other post for my car if the new longblock included any new or upgraded features that resolve the issue and was told that as far as they knew, it was the exact same thing. I'm really interested to find out if that's the case.

Infiniti has replaced lots of engines over this issue just on this forum, so I know it's something they have to know is an issue... Nissan has always made great engines (the VQ was a perennial favorite), so I don't understand why they can't resolve these issues.

[ntwrkguy1]

That's the part that blows my mind -- you would think Infiniti would go to great lengths to keep the people that buy their upscale offerings happy, especially if it isn't a suspicious/fraudulent claim. After all, happy owners are the best PR agents a company can buy.

The EOC issue is something the company MUST be aware of, even if it is a relatively small number of cases so far. Either way, I'll let you know how this turns out.

[jazzy m45]

That's the part that blows my mind -- you would think Infiniti would go to great lengths to keep the people that buy their upscale offerings happy, especially if it isn't a suspicious/fraudulent claim. After all, happy owners are the best PR agents a company can buy.

The EOC issue is something the company MUST be aware of, even if it is a relatively small number of cases so far. Either way, I'll let you know how this turns out.

I got my callback today with an answer (finally!) and my claim was approved. I'm extremely happy about it. Right after I calmed down though, I immediately thought about your situation.

I really think that you should start by calling Infiniti CS. There's gotta be something they're willing to do. Like we both agree...they MUST know about the problem.

[fiveliterbeater]

But even without this I would present facts as to the poor design as even wakopedia warns against this car engine vk45de. I think Infiniti should be pushed with a class action law suit. This posting site is mostly people who are in love with the M, so I found when I bash the car people get really affended. This problem even after its fixed will have an effect on the used car market.

it's not about being offended and i apologize if my response to your thread last month came off like that;

i was just trying to highlight the fact that, YES our engines do have a design flaw; but i just feel that putting down the M as the sole luxury car with problems is simply ridiculous as i provided links proving so.

and as far as wakopedia states; they only mention the fact that the VK's can consume oil from time to time and now actually give instructions on how to perform the oil catch can mod. pretty cool

[1scott]

FLB this is a pretty major deal, not a minor issue that other makes suffer from. Didn't your car get a new engine? Yes the warranty covered it, but what if u were a few miles or months out of warranty. This would have cost u at least $10,000, thats a lot of money in anyones book. It puts people under a lot of stress when the company gives customers like ntwkguy and jazzy the run-a-round. I have never ever sued anyone, but the law exists when big companys put out bad wigets. Infiniti knows the issue exists but instead of owning it and fixing it, they are throwing motors in cars that will potenially have the same issues. Fix the PCV system with a mod, if it means a catch can, then build one for the M as too fix the problem. This is text book how government motors (GM) was in the 1980's and they handed their customers over to Japanese and European car makers.

[mgarzaiii]

can someone post the URL to the referenced wiki? and the proposed modification?
thanks

[The00Dustin]

mgarzaii: search for catch can in this forum and you should find instructions with pictures for the mod (I don't know about wakopedia, but it'd probably be simple there too, find the site, search for vk45de, voila).

ntwrkguy1: I assume your dad is older, at least to the point where an SA in FL might assume he wouldn't check the Internet, it sounds like the dealership might be trying to pull a fast one. Consider how long it took jazzym45 to get a response, and then consider how quickly your dad's claim was allegedly denied 'by the Infiniti CS people." I'd go over jazzym45's claim and be ready to do everything he did, as they are likely to change their tune if they are pulling a fast one and they realize your dad knows it (what would consumer affairs say if you told them that the dealership told you there was a case and there wasn't). Good luck to you.

[FNAWSM]

ntwrkguy1: I assume your dad is older, at least to the point where an SA in FL might assume he wouldn't check the Internet, it sounds like the dealership might be trying to pull a fast one. Consider how long it took jazzym45 to get a response, and then consider how quickly your dad's claim was allegedly denied 'by the Infiniti CS people." I'd go over jazzym45's claim and be ready to do everything he did, as they are likely to change their tune if they are pulling a fast one and they realize your dad knows it (what would consumer affairs say if you told them that the dealership told you there was a case and there wasn't). Good luck to you.

If ntwrkguy1 is still fighting this claim 2 years later then I dont think he's gonna be approved.

[The00Dustin]

One of these days I'll start looking at the dates on posts. Maybe...

[cjrdriven]

Has this issue died down with the 08 plus models? Haven't seen it come up much over the past year. I might have missed something though...