Need some help on report for school, hot topic.

[Toahk]

I need 10 arguments from each side about having the phrase "under god" in the pledge of allegiance. By each side I mean those for keeping it and those opposing it. Ive searced online, but cant really come up with any solid arguments; so anyone thats not busy or would just like to toss one in I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again

[aaronsnocker1]

i think it is okay to have in there because although the phrase under god was only added in the 1950s the country really was founded for religous reasons(puritans running from the anglican church in England for religous freedom). Why the hell not. thats my 2 cents.

[Altiman94]

the usa is predominately protestant with most people believing in god. I approve keeping the phrase because of this. on the other hand, the seperation of church and state would make it non-valid to be saying. But, when I say it, I just say it. I never thought about the meaning when I was in elementary school. we learn about religions in high school, so why wouldnt we be abel to say the phrase. If you don't like it, just dont say the line.

[SeVa-S13]

While I'm personally not religious, the people that founded this country were. The world's laws are based on religion. The majority of people on the planet believe in a "God." It is an indiscriminate reference so it can be Allah, Yaweh, Vishnu, whoever you want it to be. Don't like it? You don't have to say it but don't disrespect where our country came from and what it stands for today. Don't like that? Copy and paste this... http://www.ileet.net/images/getout.jpg

[aaronsnocker1]

seperation of church and state is way misinterpreted and overplayed. It is something that was used to keep the USA from being like Rome because the church ran the damn country let alone most of the world. It was really meant to keep the state from running the church like in england which is the whole reason the puritans came to this country in the first place. That is what I think so please dont bash me. Im sorry if I offended any of you. I love Nissans though. Ha ha hah ah a

[SeVa-S13]

Don't apologize for your beliefs...intolerant people are ignorant people so if they bash you, it only shows their own shortcomings in the mental department.

[90Q45blue]

seperation of church and state is way misinterpreted and overplayed. It is something that was used to keep the USA from being like Rome because the church ran the damn country let alone most of the world. It was really meant to keep the state from running the church like in england which is the whole reason the puritans came to this country in the first place. That is what I think so please dont bash me. Im sorry if I offended any of you. I love Nissans though. Ha ha hah ah a

I completely agree. Very few people understand what they meant by separation of church and state and it has been blown out of proportion.

Nick

[Rockenreno]

I don't mind the "under God" phrase in the pledge of allegiance because that's just the way it is. It didn't hurt me to say it as a kid despite being aethiest. Just as long as I'm not forced to pray or believe in those nutty religious beliefs I'm good

[Nebraska240sx]

under god is perfectly fine with me and im atheist... but dont force me to go to church or to mass or whatever u belive in and i dont have a problem with it its when we impose our belifes on those who may not want it (little kids at school ect) that it becomes a problem in my mind... hell our country was founded on god so then we need to still keep it...

[Nismo_Freak]

1. Tradition - there are some that wish to keep it because it's just the way it has been since the birth of the nation.

2. Historical - there are people who believe the nation was founded by religious sects, hence the US was created as one nation under god.

3. Contra to Historical/Tradition - there are people who believe the US is a modern day Rome, and thus shouldn't rely on tradition or religion to bias it's structure, one of the many downfalls of Rome and England. Hence the strip down of anything and everything religion in the "state".

4. Religious - people are religious, the majority are christians, hence it makes sense to them to have it as "one nation, under god".

5. Contra to Religious - some people are not religious and thus do not believe in a god, or the estabolishment of religion as a whole. By allowing the "state" to continue such a phrase is an attempt to invalidate their beliefs, and thus... unconstitutional. Then again the degree of unconstitutionalism is solely based on the Supreme Court's constatutionalistic tendency. Meaning they can base their decision on the exact wording of the text or they can revert to using a modern day best translation and application of the meaning withen the article.

6. Multi-god Religion - Like the one followed by native americans, Hindu's, Taoism, and other relatively small factions withen the US have multiple gods. Each with their own special abilities to some extent. The phrase "under god" while satisfactory for monotheistic american's... it leaves the polytheistic population to choose a single god to be under.

[Onizuka]

6. Multi-god Religion - Like the one followed by native americans, Hindu's, Taoism, and other relatively small factions withen the US have multiple gods. Each with their own special abilities to some extent. The phrase "under god" while satisfactory for monotheistic american's... it leaves the polytheistic population to choose a single god to be under.

It can still apply, many polytheistic religions have a "Great" god, or in the case of hinduism, many chose to celebrate one god over the rest. Many asian-indian religions have belief in a cosmic order, or being, which can be interpreted as a singular "god".

go religious studies 001! :pface

[Nismo_Freak]

It can still apply, many polytheistic religions have a "Great" god, or in the case of hinduism, many chose to celebrate one god over the rest. Many asian-indian religions have belief in a cosmic order, or being, which can be interpreted as a singular "god".

go religious studies 001! :pface

Right, but while 1 god is uber-god, that still leaves the fact you're omitting the help and offerings of the others.

[James @ ID-M]

Who said car guys arent smart? hehe

[SeVa-S13]

"...one nation, under God(s)..."

[elwesso]

I think if our founding fathers looked at us right now and the situations, they would be SICK.....

The only people the people want "under God' outta here are people that want more or want something to argue about.. I dont think that the overall population really cares if "under God" is in there..... There are people that want it, and the people that dont care... Thats probably about 95%.....

Minority rules, i guess

[BoyWonder]

I've heard one arguement against the phrase "Under God" being that it pushes the belief of God onto children of parents who otherwise don't believe in God. I find that almost laughable. If that simply implying there is a God is enough to sway everything that parents teach their children, maybe they aren't really teaching them anything. I suppose at the same time since they are kids they can be influenced.. but if thats the counterarguement, then we have many other things we need to worry about IE TV, magazine adds, movies, etc. Maybe we should just change the phrase to "One nation which may or may not reside under an all powerful being and/or beings who shall at this time remain nameless.."And next, we'll have people complaining that "Purple mountains" has some sort of implication of homosexuality.. John Q must be rather bored.

[Toahk]

:ylsuper Thanks guys, this is helping me out a ton.

[Bubba1]

I believe the words "under God" didn't get added to the Pledge of Allegience until the Eisenhower administration. It wasn't originally written with those two words in it. That said, it's amazing how much those two words suddenly became overblown with politics/grandstanding lawsuits 4 decades after it was added. It seems as if no one in our esteemed policital or legal arenas ever considered the alternative of simply not reciting the parts they find offensive.

[Jesda]

As the resident forum Buddhist I'll chime in....

I don't care!

You can plaster "under God" on your forehead if you want and walk around flaunting it. Its like great... enjoy it... whatever. It doesnt hurt me, so I wont actively seek to remove it. Its mostly an emotional battle waged by weird people who freak out when you say the G-word in front of them.

-Jesda

[C-Kwik]

As aaronsnocker said, the phrase, under god, was not added until sometime in the 1900's. From one source, I've heard it was propaganda during WWII. Kind of to try and make the war seem like it had a religious reason. For that reason, I disagree that the phrase should be used. And frankly, as a Christian, I think it's wrong to use God or his name in that manner. I look beyond the words and look at the intent. To non-christians, it's about as meaningless as a prayer.

[Nismo_Freak]

As aaronsnocker said, the phrase, under god, was not added until sometime in the 1900's. From one source, I've heard it was propaganda during WWII. Kind of to try and make the war seem like it had a religious reason. For that reason, I disagree that the phrase should be used. And frankly, as a Christian, I think it's wrong to use God or his name in that manner. I look beyond the words and look at the intent. To non-christians, it's about as meaningless as a prayer.

Propaganda was used to say the Germans and Japanese were sinners and thus we had god on our side. Ironically the german belt buckles had "Gott mit uns" stamped on them... meaning "God is with us". It was used to appeal to the Bible Belt of America, drawing unwavering support for the war by devout christians.

[nametakennow]

For:1. It was written that way for a reason, stop complaining.2. Most religions have an "almighty" or at least mightier than most god.3. Those who say Allah is discriminated against are full of it too, Allah is another word for God.4. The vast majority of people even today are religious, and in keeping with the populace, on which Democracy was founded on (although we're actually a Democratic Republic... but that's another point for another day), we must keep the phrase.5. The authors of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence were all religious, and those were the 3 documents most important to the development of our country.6. Pulling "under God" out is like pulling Evolution and the Big Bang out of public schools in GA (gahh... this state is so retarded), it's retarded. It's just another attempt to impose views upon people (see my Against list to see the turn on this sucker).7. The phrase "under God" does not actually necessarily refer to a higher power, people just take it that way. It simply refers to the idea of being humble, in that it is saying that the US realizes it can't push people around.8. Any time the pledge is said, including school and sports events, for instance, it is optional, you don't have to say it if you don't like it, stop whining.9. What's wrong with God, honestly? What do people have against God? God is a peaceful, helpful, and understanding entity.10. Not only is this country generally religious, but our allies are too, therefore in an effort to keep them happy we continue to allow such a phrase in our pledge.

Note: The entire idea of these is just to be a set of reasons. They can all be attacked quite easily, and the next list should exemplify that. No reason is bulletproof.

Against:1. It was written incorrectly, and indeed, this phrase was actually an addition after the pledge was already written, that addition was just another Jesus-freak attempt at imposing Christian views on this nation.2. Polytheistic religions have so many different gods that a universal God is illogical.3. Allah is indeed a specific reference to a supreme entity, but the difference between Christian and Islamic religions is so great that using the word "God" indeed offends Muslims.4. More and more people are turning to Atheism and other progressive schools of thought, religion is an archaic attempt at explaining the world.5. The authors of the Constition, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence intended fully to avoid a Theocratic government.6. Having "under God" is like pulling Evolution and the Big Bang out of public schools in GA (gahh... this state is so laughable), it's retarded. It's just another attempt to impose views upon people.7. Of course the phrase refers to a specific higher power, what the hell else could "under God" mean? Shut up Bible-boy!8. Even if saying the pledge is optional, even just hearing this offensive phrase is a detriment and indeed an attack upon people of no faith.9. God is an archaic explanation for the world, that's what's wrong with God.10. Who cares about our allies? Bush certainly didn't going into Iraq! This is about what is right in the separation of church and state!

Enjoy!