Need some assistance: SAFC / decel / A/F ratios

[AZhitman]

Well, I've FINALLY made a bit of progress on Project Vert.

It's been a panful 4 months,and I've come *this* close to parking it in storage for a year JUST so I don't have to look at it up on jackstands.

Here's where I'm at:

Was having problems with too much fuel, which we narrowed down to bad o-rings. Bought new o-rings. Nissan gave me (what appear to be) the wrong ones, as they're not quite as thick as the ones I removed. So, in the interest of eliminating one problem at a time, I returned to the 270's, cleared all correction from the SAFC-II and moved on.

New problem: With the AEM wideband installed in place of the stock O2 sensor (wired up correctly), car idles great in open-loop (cold) but bogs, hunts and sputters once it switches into closed-loop operation. We switch to the factory O2 and hook it up and it's great.

So I weld in a 2nd O2 bung so I can use the AEM for monitoring and the factory O2 sensor will simply keep thr ECU happy - Problem SEEMS to be solved.

Fire it up, allow it to warm up, and it's running lean. Real lean. Off the meter lean. So, I dial in some fuel correction (about +8% at 800-1400 rpm's) and it seems happy (idling between 14-15:1). Good deal - Seeems safe to install some NEW 370's I have acquired, which will come later - once it's running RIGHT.

Now, on to the problem that has been plaguing this setup since DAY ONE: It stalls on deceleration. BOV is recirculated, and set to "hard". (Settings don't seem to matter, as I've had it set both hard and soft). Simply taking the rpms up to 2000 and letting it drop results in a stall.

Can I dial this OUT with the SAFC somehow? Or is this a mechanical (non-electronic) issue?

Does anyone see any OTHER problems with anything about my setup thus far?

I hate this damn car. I really do.

[wild_maxx]

Are you using a safc II? If so you can try the decel air function ( i read that your had the BOV recirc.) but its worth a try.

[AZhitman]

So what would I dial in there?

[side waz]

Hey man.

Well these are my numbers, using SR 370's, in the Decel settings.

THR% - 5.0%NE1 - 1.9NE2 - 3.5

There's others here in this thread I started,

zer...age=1

Anyway I hope this helps out.

Good luck.

[wild_maxx]

set the THR. to about 1.5 then Ne1 at 1.00 and Ne2 at 1.5

to get it properly working you need to do this when you start your car up cold. slowly lower the Ne1 point until the car stalls out then bring it back up one point and the car should run. try that out and see if it work for ya.

[Jookmasta]

hey greg, sorry to hear of ur issues but my help to u will come in the form of helpin u with the decel settings:

http://forums.freshalloy.com/u...73668

the only other thing i can see that could b causing it is the actual safc II.............i dont remember where i read it but apparantly the SAFC I seemed to do decel functions alot better than the SAFC II. but with ur bov recircd' i dont see how ur still stalling as the engine shouldnt be seeing a rich condition since there is no air being lost. um when it does stall, ur a/f's are heading to the rich side of things right?

[nissanfanatic]

Sounds more like just a dirty IACV to me. I had a similar problem back in the day. I went to town and problem started. Pulled over and disconnected my BOV. Still stalled. Got home and dumped some Seafoam in my IACV hose while holding the car at 2500rpm-ish. Re-adusted idle and voila!

[huguetpj]

It might be that... or it might be something else. I dunno cause in my 93 I tried everything to get my idle back after installing the turbo... using stock injection and stock spark and stock everything... just the turbo. I completely tore the intake mani and assembled it back together checking and cleaning each solenoid and sensor I found. Never could figure it out. Maybe the ECU just does not like the added intake volume or something.

Installed my SAFC II.. and voila... no more feathering the accelerator at each and every stop sing to catch my idle back. I followed the SAFC instructions to set up the decel but I can not give you my settings cause I don't remember them and I'm already using an Emanage.

[AZhitman]

Cory, I'm gonna try that and then try what Jook posted up...

Please see my other thread here, possibly related?

[nissanfanatic]

huguetpj, you may have something going there... I think the stock ECU is very weird with boost. I had a problem with 2000-3000rpm with my setup. It would stumble very badly there on the first time I accelerated. No matter what operating temp. It happened only in third gear too... WTF... Stock ECU isn't a big fan of FI thats for sure.

For Dec air setting NE1, just find out what airflow% is on inital startup. Use that to get yoru car running. Then after it is warm, look at Airflow%. Set it to like .1-.2% higher and use that for your warm setting. For NE2 use approx 1% higher than NE1 when its warm.

Mine with Z32MAFS, Enthalpy is:

NE1(cold)-1.4%NE1(warm)-.8%NE2-1.9%Thr-1.0%

Some people say that you have to use cold NE1 only, but my car dips after letting off the throttle by doing that. Its no biggie to me to just add a couple points when starting and take them away when the car is warm.

[Jookmasta]

hey cory, i thought that with the enthalpy ecu, u wouldnt need to worry about the decel settings as u can run an open bov with it. or at least thats what i heard.

and i will admit that the stock ecu even with decel settings setup properly still will stall pending on what gear ur in and at what rpm u throw the thing into neutral.

[nissanfanatic]

Eh.... mine doesn't work that way. I may have forgotten to tell him that I am open atmosphere tho... Either way, it works as is.lol

[AZhitman]

OK, I ran my IACV to my coldpipe, and not much has changed.

Still stalls on decel, and feels "strained" on acceleration (like it's not getting enough air or something)...

Gah, I hate this effing car.

[Jookmasta]

so u did set ur decel setings and still no dice after puttin on the AIVC?

[Florida240sx]

I had severe problems with my car;I still don't have bov recirculated.about 3 days before I spun my bearing though. I did pretty well with IIRC 1.4 2.4 3.2. At idle my plugs are gapped so much it's off a little. But I run with my fan on and it solved the problem. With close to that settign runnign 5lbs of boost and FAN on I only stalled once out of abotu 40 times. Probably was greatly fixed after I got exhaust.

[AZhitman]

Well, after ANOTHER day of testing, to no avail, the vert is still running crappy.

Swapped injectors, ECU's, bypassed the SAFC, adjusted idle and timing, tried everything... Several local guys gave it their best, but no progress.

Idles great (but kinda rich), and goes WAY lean on acceleration, then stalls on decel. Makes the car pretty undriveable, and it's bogging and choking under load (acceleration).

Pulling 20 lbs of vacuum at idle, and can't find any leaks, so we're thinking maybe just start over with an unmolested manifold.

Any thoughts would be welcomed, as I'm about to go find a storage facility and get this thing out of my sight for a while...

[steve s14]

have you tried swapping the maf? i would also check the coolant temp sensor reading at the ecu, it can cause fuel mixture problems too, usually it causes rich conditions from too much resistance but it can cause lean conditions too if the opposite was to happen.

[AZhitman]

Will try both of those.

We're pretty certain the MAF is good, and have swapped in 3 different coolant temp sensors, but it can't hurt to check again.

[AZhitman]

Well, we tried everything - all sensors checked out OK, no real reason for the car not to run right.

Put a Consult on it, and all the readings were identical to a good-running KA.

Compression is way outta whack (137 / 105 / 155 / 170) across all 4 cylinders, so apparently I got f***** by a machine shop as well. $400 down the crapper.

I'll build my own damn engine I guess.

On a side note, we partially disassembled the original engine. Bearing failure in #2. Engine in good shape otherwise, so it's a good candidate for rebuild.

Thanks Adam, Adam, Champa and Jason for the help. You guys rule.

I'm gonna get drunk and have a good hard cry over this bullcrap.

Freaking cars...

[95_240sx]

Is this what you were referring to this morning Greg?

Get in touch with my about a motor before you do too much.

Rick

[nissanfanatic]

Damn man, that sucks...

Should just pull a good running KA out of a junker car and then mess with the spare blown block.

[WDRacing]

Did you ever instal a friggin O2 sensor??

[AZhitman]

Yes.

Wideband AND oem O2.

[WDRacing]

Quit letting those morons from PHoenix near your car...I think they are sabotaging it so you'll have them over and feed them!!!

[steve s14]

damn, sorry to hear that . definately build it yourself next time, that way you'll get some good experience, save some money and if nothing else you'll only have only yourself to blame if it doesn't turn out well. so goes the hobby when it comes to cars, just like most things in life, for great rewards, there are potentially big headaches.

[DammitBobby]

I'm gonna get drunk and have a good hard cry over this bullcrap.

Freaking cars...

LOL, Yeah I feel your pain. I still haven`t gotten my car boosted yet and it has been down since September this year. I am on my 3rd Turbo! Turbo number 2 never boosted. Turbo number one was a ZY POS! Turbo number 3 is sitting in a box in my trunk waiting for warm weather:(

[s13drft89]

Sorry to hear that man, ive been through it as well, two ka motors no boost, leaking oil between the head and block, had a rebuilt motor and same thing. It all started from a simple headgasket into 7 months of hold back and around 5g's just to try to get it to run NA, still nothing yet