damn this section of the forums is slow.
ok getting back to the point
i found a 72 240Z for sale today.
the body is in great shape.
the 2.4L engine was swapped out for a 280Z engine (im guessing L28)
this engine has been cammed, has a header, and is running a holley 4bbl.
Does the L series engine have the intake and exhaust ports on the same side of the head?
basicly the engine barely idles (VERY LOPEY) but is ferocious when you get on the gas(revs VERY fast and is very loud).
is this car worth the $3995 asking price? if not what do you think its worth.
the body and interior are in good shape and the engine appears to be in great shape, it doesn't have power steering (did the 240s ever have it?)
need opinion on a Z
OK. You may need to take notes.
"damn this section of the forums is slow."
Yes, not much happening here. Try http://www.240Z.org for much more.
"i found a 72 240Z for sale today. the body is in great shape. the 2.4L engine was swapped out for a 280Z engine (im guessing L28). this engine has been cammed, has a header, and is running a holley 4bbl. Does the L series engine have the intake and exhaust ports on the same side of the head?"
Yes, the intake and exhaust are on the same side of the head. Just one of those things you learn to live with.
"basicly the engine barely idles (VERY LOPEY) but is ferocious when you get on the gas(revs VERY fast and is very loud)."
Sometimes very loud makes "reasonably quick" feel like "very fast." The lopey idle can be due to a large cam (possible) or a poorly tuned carb (likely). The Holley conversion was a typical after market item. Normally, it gives strong high end performance but not so good low end performace. Couple that with a big cam and the effect would be very noticable.
"is this car worth the $3995 asking price? if not what do you think its worth."
Price for the car depends on two things. Disreguard everything else. These cars are a bit cheaper on the west coast and south west than elsewhere. For that price, the car should be close to rust free. Check floor boards, frame rails, under the battery tray, rear corners of the rocker pannels, upper rear wheel wells, and windshield frame. If the car has significant rust, you will get a year out of it before it collapses into a pile of brown powder. Don't be afraid to poke and prod. Some people are good a hiding rust.
Disreguard ALL mechanical work. All of the mechanics on this car are cheap, cheap, cheap. You can buy good running engines for $150. People will give you the 4 speed transmission for free. A good engine rebuild costs less than doing the injectors on a Q45 (I know, I've done both) Spend your money on a good body. Rust repair is EXPENSIVE!!!!!
"the body and interior are in good shape and the engine appears to be in great shape, it doesn't have power steering (did the 240s ever have it?)"
No PS. It shouldn't need it. If the steering feels stiff it either has wide tires, a failing steering rack, or a dead steering shaft connector.
"damn this section of the forums is slow."
Yes, not much happening here. Try http://www.240Z.org for much more.
"i found a 72 240Z for sale today. the body is in great shape. the 2.4L engine was swapped out for a 280Z engine (im guessing L28). this engine has been cammed, has a header, and is running a holley 4bbl. Does the L series engine have the intake and exhaust ports on the same side of the head?"
Yes, the intake and exhaust are on the same side of the head. Just one of those things you learn to live with.
"basicly the engine barely idles (VERY LOPEY) but is ferocious when you get on the gas(revs VERY fast and is very loud)."
Sometimes very loud makes "reasonably quick" feel like "very fast." The lopey idle can be due to a large cam (possible) or a poorly tuned carb (likely). The Holley conversion was a typical after market item. Normally, it gives strong high end performance but not so good low end performace. Couple that with a big cam and the effect would be very noticable.
"is this car worth the $3995 asking price? if not what do you think its worth."
Price for the car depends on two things. Disreguard everything else. These cars are a bit cheaper on the west coast and south west than elsewhere. For that price, the car should be close to rust free. Check floor boards, frame rails, under the battery tray, rear corners of the rocker pannels, upper rear wheel wells, and windshield frame. If the car has significant rust, you will get a year out of it before it collapses into a pile of brown powder. Don't be afraid to poke and prod. Some people are good a hiding rust.
Disreguard ALL mechanical work. All of the mechanics on this car are cheap, cheap, cheap. You can buy good running engines for $150. People will give you the 4 speed transmission for free. A good engine rebuild costs less than doing the injectors on a Q45 (I know, I've done both) Spend your money on a good body. Rust repair is EXPENSIVE!!!!!
"the body and interior are in good shape and the engine appears to be in great shape, it doesn't have power steering (did the 240s ever have it?)"
No PS. It shouldn't need it. If the steering feels stiff it either has wide tires, a failing steering rack, or a dead steering shaft connector.
-
jmillheiser
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:45 pm
ok.
as for the steering. the car does have wide tires on it.
i saw no rust underneth the car or in the fenders.
it could be a bad tuning job on the carb since it appears to be a dual feed holley as there is a second line coming off of the back float bowl that has been plugged. if this is a dual feed that means that the secondaries are getting no fuel.
what i would probably do on that if that were the case would be to buy and install a single feed holley (how much airflow does the L28 need?) and sell the dual feed to a muscle car guy. that would be a lot cheaper than a triple DCOE setup and work well enough once jetted properly.
im suprised that a 4bbl would suffer that much on the bottom end since the delay in opening the secondaries usually helps low end torque on pushrod v8s.
as for the steering. the car does have wide tires on it.
i saw no rust underneth the car or in the fenders.
it could be a bad tuning job on the carb since it appears to be a dual feed holley as there is a second line coming off of the back float bowl that has been plugged. if this is a dual feed that means that the secondaries are getting no fuel.
what i would probably do on that if that were the case would be to buy and install a single feed holley (how much airflow does the L28 need?) and sell the dual feed to a muscle car guy. that would be a lot cheaper than a triple DCOE setup and work well enough once jetted properly.
im suprised that a 4bbl would suffer that much on the bottom end since the delay in opening the secondaries usually helps low end torque on pushrod v8s.
Much of what you say is true. Normally I would expect to see a Holly 400 on that setup. Just be aware that at low engine speeds, the fuel starts to come out of suspension for cylinders 1 and 6 due to the length of the runners. At high RPMs this isn't a problem.
If you are a dedicated carb guy and power is your goal, this setup is as good as any for the money invested. For daily drivability, not so good. Don't expect much over 200hp without MAJOR engine work.
I really prefer the original fuel injection. With a well set up engine with a cam (I like the Bull Frog cam), the stock FI will give you 200 hp, great drivability, and outstanding reliability.
As far as rust goes. Don't just "look." Poke and prod! A cheap rust fix and a fresh coat of undercoating will fool some experienced car guys. The rust is there, go find it.
If you are a dedicated carb guy and power is your goal, this setup is as good as any for the money invested. For daily drivability, not so good. Don't expect much over 200hp without MAJOR engine work.
I really prefer the original fuel injection. With a well set up engine with a cam (I like the Bull Frog cam), the stock FI will give you 200 hp, great drivability, and outstanding reliability.
As far as rust goes. Don't just "look." Poke and prod! A cheap rust fix and a fresh coat of undercoating will fool some experienced car guys. The rust is there, go find it.
-
McAdam
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:33 pm
- Car: I like cars and my motorcycle. boats are fun too
- Contact:
you want to go to http://www.Zcar.com thats one of the most active first gen Z boards on the web. http://www.hybridz.org is another good one. I dont know about $4000, sounds a little steep. unless the car is really rust free. Also, what is the suspension set up like? IF you bought it, DITCH THE 4 BARREL! that is the worst carb for an L series motor. It causes a lean condition on cylinders 1 and 6 and a rich condition on cyls 3 & 4. You really want a Mikuni set-up for that motor, or even go back to the stock SU carbs. those suckers can really perform. there is a guy on zcar.com that is running in the 12's with dual SU's. and they are very fuel effecient. anyway, hope this helps!
good luck
McAdam
good luck
McAdam
-
jmillheiser
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:45 pm
that one that i posted about sold the next day. but i found another one that is in even better shape and appears to be more stock.
its a 71 body looks immaculate(didn't get a chance to really poke and prod. it still has the L24 and the dual SUs. only mods i saw were a crane ignition and a header (was that header a stock piece or something?). this car runs nice and quiet though still has a bit of a lopey idle (the car was cold didn't get a chance to warm it up as it was sitting indoors).
ive noticed that L series engines dont like to start in cold weather (at least not without the choke).
looks like the SUs would be pretty efficient since they are single barrels. the manual choke is a nice touch(never seen DCOEs with chokes).
this 71 i found has an asking price of 5900. this car looks like it has been completely restored (ignition upgrade might suggest that this car was intended to be a daily driver).
i also know of a 260Z and a 280Z that are for sale in town as well. the 260 is in good shape looks to be all stock dont know the price. the 280 looks like an unfinished project will probably sell for cheap.
how did the 260 and 280 compare to the 240. im guessing they were heavier and that the 280 might have been less powerful due to smog equipment
its a 71 body looks immaculate(didn't get a chance to really poke and prod. it still has the L24 and the dual SUs. only mods i saw were a crane ignition and a header (was that header a stock piece or something?). this car runs nice and quiet though still has a bit of a lopey idle (the car was cold didn't get a chance to warm it up as it was sitting indoors).
ive noticed that L series engines dont like to start in cold weather (at least not without the choke).
looks like the SUs would be pretty efficient since they are single barrels. the manual choke is a nice touch(never seen DCOEs with chokes).
this 71 i found has an asking price of 5900. this car looks like it has been completely restored (ignition upgrade might suggest that this car was intended to be a daily driver).
i also know of a 260Z and a 280Z that are for sale in town as well. the 260 is in good shape looks to be all stock dont know the price. the 280 looks like an unfinished project will probably sell for cheap.
how did the 260 and 280 compare to the 240. im guessing they were heavier and that the 280 might have been less powerful due to smog equipment
"that one that i posted about sold the next day. but i found another one that is in even better shape and appears to be more stock."
You have to be ready to move. Study and reasearch first, then buy.
"its a 71 body looks immaculate(didn't get a chance to really poke and prod. it still has the L24 and the dual SUs. only mods i saw were a crane ignition and a header (was that header a stock piece or something?). this car runs nice and quiet though still has a bit of a lopey idle (the car was cold didn't get a chance to warm it up as it was sitting indoors)."
Standard modifications
"ive noticed that L series engines dont like to start in cold weather (at least not without the choke)."
Let me guess. You have never had a car without fuel injection. Yes, you need the choke. Welcome to the good old days.
"looks like the SUs would be pretty efficient since they are single barrels. the manual choke is a nice touch(never seen DCOEs with chokes)."
The chokes on DCOEs is an add on that had to be ordered. If the carbs were to be used for racing, then no chokes. Not very good for daily service. DCOEs with chokes can be great carbs for the street. Unfortunately, setting them up requires extensive experience with the car and the carbs. That experience is dieing off fast.
"this 71 i found has an asking price of 5900. this car looks like it has been completely restored (ignition upgrade might suggest that this car was intended to be a daily driver)."
NO RUST. Have you heard this before?
"i also know of a 260Z and a 280Z that are for sale in town as well. the 260 is in good shape looks to be all stock dont know the price. the 280 looks like an unfinished project will probably sell for cheap."
Early 260 is the same body as the 240, the late 260 has a 280 body.
"how did the 260 and 280 compare to the 240. im guessing they were heavier and that the 280 might have been less powerful due to smog equipment"
The early 240 and the 280 had comparable hp but the 280 had more tourque and the 240s had more revs. The FI works.
You have to be ready to move. Study and reasearch first, then buy.
"its a 71 body looks immaculate(didn't get a chance to really poke and prod. it still has the L24 and the dual SUs. only mods i saw were a crane ignition and a header (was that header a stock piece or something?). this car runs nice and quiet though still has a bit of a lopey idle (the car was cold didn't get a chance to warm it up as it was sitting indoors)."
Standard modifications
"ive noticed that L series engines dont like to start in cold weather (at least not without the choke)."
Let me guess. You have never had a car without fuel injection. Yes, you need the choke. Welcome to the good old days.
"looks like the SUs would be pretty efficient since they are single barrels. the manual choke is a nice touch(never seen DCOEs with chokes)."
The chokes on DCOEs is an add on that had to be ordered. If the carbs were to be used for racing, then no chokes. Not very good for daily service. DCOEs with chokes can be great carbs for the street. Unfortunately, setting them up requires extensive experience with the car and the carbs. That experience is dieing off fast.
"this 71 i found has an asking price of 5900. this car looks like it has been completely restored (ignition upgrade might suggest that this car was intended to be a daily driver)."
NO RUST. Have you heard this before?
"i also know of a 260Z and a 280Z that are for sale in town as well. the 260 is in good shape looks to be all stock dont know the price. the 280 looks like an unfinished project will probably sell for cheap."
Early 260 is the same body as the 240, the late 260 has a 280 body.
"how did the 260 and 280 compare to the 240. im guessing they were heavier and that the 280 might have been less powerful due to smog equipment"
The early 240 and the 280 had comparable hp but the 280 had more tourque and the 240s had more revs. The FI works.
-
jmillheiser
- Posts: 255
- Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:45 pm
your right ive never owned a carbed vehicle but ive driven plenty of em. most of my carbed experience is aircooled VWs and 70s cars. ACVWs are pretty rare in the carbed world as they start up almost as easy as an FI car in the cold. a lot of 70s american cars start pretty easy as well (good automatic chokes and small carbs).
help with multiple 2bbl setups shouldn't be too hard for me to find as i also spend a lot of time with the aircooled VW community and there are lots of people who have experience with webers (dual weber IDFs are almost a standard mod on a beetle anymore).
strangley the 240Zs seem to have not been bitten by the collector cult bug that has made so many old cars hideously expensive (even the VW bugs have gotten hideously expensive as of late - even the 70s cars which are a dime a dozen).
im gonna guess that the 260s and 280s both have smog equipment? what carbs did the 260s use? how tuneable is the 280s FI?
help with multiple 2bbl setups shouldn't be too hard for me to find as i also spend a lot of time with the aircooled VW community and there are lots of people who have experience with webers (dual weber IDFs are almost a standard mod on a beetle anymore).
strangley the 240Zs seem to have not been bitten by the collector cult bug that has made so many old cars hideously expensive (even the VW bugs have gotten hideously expensive as of late - even the 70s cars which are a dime a dozen).
im gonna guess that the 260s and 280s both have smog equipment? what carbs did the 260s use? how tuneable is the 280s FI?
-
McAdam
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:33 pm
- Car: I like cars and my motorcycle. boats are fun too
- Contact:
the little L24's rev so good because they are short stroke and they have a 1.8 to 1 rod to stroke ratio. Pitty no one makes an aftermarket crossflow head for the L motors. I would stay away from webers, not from personal experience, but just from what I have heard aboutthat brand name in particular. Solex's are sposed to excellent if you can find any. best features of the webers and mikuni carbs rolled into one.
As far as the 240z's being effected by the collector bug, they have. I was 17 when I first got into Z's and they were cheap. I am only 23 now and I would say the price of a good condition runnig 240Z has doubled. at least from what I have seen.
The 260Z carbs were absolute garbage. vapor lock, witha vengance. a hot and easy mod is to get a set of '72 SU's and just bolt em on. there is a lot of smog equip on those carbs and they do not handle it well. The 280Z's have smog, but the fuel injection makes it more manageable. never too many problems with that. Had a few 280z, they are a bit heavier than the earlier 240Z/260z's. mostly due to the HUGE federal bumpers and they were stiffer as well, longer frame rails. if you take the bumpers off, and put on a decent body kit, teh difference in weight becomes negleigable.
Bottom line, If you want a collectors car, get the 240, if you want something to mod, get the 280 for a turbo swap, or get teh 260 for a nice tripple mikuni/cam/header build.
sorry for the rambling.McAdam
As far as the 240z's being effected by the collector bug, they have. I was 17 when I first got into Z's and they were cheap. I am only 23 now and I would say the price of a good condition runnig 240Z has doubled. at least from what I have seen.
The 260Z carbs were absolute garbage. vapor lock, witha vengance. a hot and easy mod is to get a set of '72 SU's and just bolt em on. there is a lot of smog equip on those carbs and they do not handle it well. The 280Z's have smog, but the fuel injection makes it more manageable. never too many problems with that. Had a few 280z, they are a bit heavier than the earlier 240Z/260z's. mostly due to the HUGE federal bumpers and they were stiffer as well, longer frame rails. if you take the bumpers off, and put on a decent body kit, teh difference in weight becomes negleigable.
Bottom line, If you want a collectors car, get the 240, if you want something to mod, get the 280 for a turbo swap, or get teh 260 for a nice tripple mikuni/cam/header build.
sorry for the rambling.McAdam
-
AkaiRPS13
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 2:28 am
- Car: 91 Nissan 240SX
76 Datsun 280Z
92 Nissan 240SX
about the aftermaket crossflow head, I hear the 240SX KA24DE engine dimentions are similar exept its a 4 cyl. maybe someone could built a custom KA24DE 6 cyl head that maches the bore centers and head bolt pattern of the L24. That would be cool. MMMmmm, oversquare (*drool*).
ps i know its more complicated than that but its a cool thought
ps i know its more complicated than that but its a cool thought
-
McAdam
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:33 pm
- Car: I like cars and my motorcycle. boats are fun too
- Contact:
actually, I had thought about that. Its the Ka24E head thats similar. infact the E head will bolt on to a L series 4 cylinder block. Or so I am told. I have two E series heads from blown blocks, cut cyl 1 off of one, and 4 off of another, then weld em together. the cam would be tricky tho, hrmmmm we shall see.. we shall see.... then boost the bastard!
I've seen a couple of attempts to merge two E type heads into one L type head. Both attempts died from lack of money and skills.
The last of the Solex carbs are gone. Only used ones from now on.
I've seen some triple SU setups that run like stink.
But when push come to shove, I like the FI for a daily driver. Its Nissans version of the Bosch L-Jetronic injection. Its well understood and responds well to some mild tuning.
The last of the Solex carbs are gone. Only used ones from now on.
I've seen some triple SU setups that run like stink.
But when push come to shove, I like the FI for a daily driver. Its Nissans version of the Bosch L-Jetronic injection. Its well understood and responds well to some mild tuning.