Need HELP with dealer!!!

[EZcheese15]

Ok, let me start by pasting what I sent to other lists:------------------Yeah, you read the subject right. I blew my headgasket….on my QR25!



About a month ago, my radiator blew up. Some of you may have heard the story. Anyway, the car overheated, I had it towed to the dealer. Radiator was replaced under warrenty. I asked how the headgasket was and they told me “the head gasket is fine, I really don’t think it will cause any problems. We didn’t see any leaks.”



I took their word, and drove off, but had a feeling my headgasket was now weaker. Anyway, this past weekend, I went to Deal’s Gap, NC with some friends to do some mountain driving. After the first run through Deal’s Gap, I shut the car off at a lookout. When I tried to restart it about 20 mins later, it did not want to start. It would turn over, but not catch. Finally, it caught, and I drove off (didn’t think much about it, maybe it was heat soaked?). I drove back through Deal’s Gap, and when I pulled back into the parking lot, my car was popping and smoking. Our first though was a blown motor. The motor was shaking very badly like it was running on 2 cylinders (which, turns out, it was). We pulled the fuel pump fuse, and cranked it. It had compression on all 4 cylinders, you could hear it. Good sign J



So after running the car at idle and revving it a few times, it cleared up, and sounded normal again. I drove back to Helen, GA, keeping an eye on the temp gauge. I let the car sit overnight at the hotel, and pulled the spark plugs this morning. Cylinders 3 and 4 had standing water in them. Rather than turning it over and spitting the coolant out, I decided to have it towed back to Atlanta to the dealer who did the radiator. Right now, the car is at the dealer awaiting service.



I just pray they cover it under warrenty. I have headers, intake, exhaust, removed balance shafts….and the scary thing….removed knock sensor. I wanted to put it back in but we didn’t have the bolt with us. That, and it was pouring rain all day and had very limited tools. I know the reason it blew was because it was weakened from the radiator blowing up and overheating. But getting the dealer to replace it under warrenty is another story. Got my fingers crossed!--------------

Ok, now an update from today:

I went to the dealer to check the status. They "can't reproduce the problem." They told me they pressure tested the coolant system and the block and found no leaks. They said there was no coolant in the cylinders. They said the spark plugs looked fine. They said it did not smoke, and drove fine. They said "well, you were running a little rich, but you had stuff tapped into the O2 sensor harness." The ONLY thing I did to the O2 sensor harness was lengthen the wires for my headers. They are NOT tapped into. And what does this have to do with my headgasket anyway???

So right now my car is still there, and they claim it's completely fine. I didn't pay $165 to get my car towed to the dealer when it is "completely fine." If I wanted to, I would have cranked it without the plugs in until the coolant was out of the cylinders, and I would have drove it back home.

What I want to know is what I can do to get them to cover it. I have 4 eye witnesses to my head gasket going. One of them is going with me in a few minutes to the dealer to help complain. We are planning on pulling the plugs in the parking lot to show them. But if there is no coolant in them (which there may not be since they started it and ran the car), we plan on driving it hard until it starts smoking again. That should prove it, right?? I almost wish it wasn't under warrenty so I could just fix it and not deal with dealers, but I'm not gonna let FREE work slip by.

Anyway, this is mostly just a vent, but if anybody that works at a dealer would like to chime in, I am anxiously awaiting comments/suggestions.

[EZcheese15]

Just another update:

Me and a friend went back to the dealer to check the plugs and cylinders for coolant. We pulled the two plugs that had coolant in them the first time. We did this in the parking lot. They were dry So we decided to take the car for a test drive to see if *we* could reproduce the problem, since the dealer couldn't.

So we came back to the dealer 30 mins later, stumbling in on 2 cylinders. Smoke was pouring out the back of the car, and it was idling at about 400 rpm. I revved it a few times coming in (to keep it from dying) and blew smoke all over the service drive. All the service writers were gagging. I got out of the car and about 10 seconds later, the car died. The service writer said "well, I'll call you tomorrow morning about it. We'll take a look at it." Me and my friend walked away with a smile because we had reproduced the problem with ease, however still somewhat worried because I am still not sure if they will cover it under warranty. I'll find out tommorrow and post the latest.

[sultan]

you may want to find another dealer/mechanic. i wouldn't trust those guys with anything.

[UncleBen]

that sucks Torry. i hope they cover everything at no cost to you. they should. lol, thats funny about you reproducing the problem for them. did you just drive it real hard? i guess those dealers didn't drive it hard enough or sumthing.

[EZcheese15]

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, I drove the piss out of the car for 30 mins. However, I never over revved it, and only hit the rev limiter like twice. Heh, that's what they're there for anyway, right? I was determined to reproduce the problem, which I did

[EZcheese15]

you may want to find another dealer/mechanic. i wouldn't trust those guys with anything.

That's already in the plans, if they refuse to cover it. I took it there because they are the ones who replaced my radiator under warranty, which is a direct relation to the headgasket.

[EZcheese15]

Another update:

They called me today and told me there is NO headgasket leak. That the reason it was running on two cylinders was because it was running so rich that two of them were misfiring. The standing liquid in the cylinders is supposedly fuel, not coolant. They said I threw two codes: knock sensor and O2 sensor. They said it was because my knock sensor is not hooked up (which, admittingly is unbolted, but it's still connected so that I DON'T get a check engine light). Which, btw, is the other odd thing, I never had a check engine light.

They say it is either my MAF sensor or my O2 sensor, and that neither would be under warranty because my intake voids the MAF warranty and my exhaust voids the O2 sensor warranty (which I don't disagree with). But he said he will stop where he is and I won't be charged, but to go further it will cost me. So I agreed to get the car as is, walk away for nothing, and diagnose it further myself.

I can't wait to find out what it is and show them it IS burning coolant. I mean it's so obvious, the exhaust smells like coolant! And I am loosing coolant! And my reservoir tank keeps FILLING up. Is this NOT a sign of a bad headgasket??? Anyway, I can't wait to find the problem. If it my MAF then I will put my stock intake back on and take it to a different dealer, but I seriously still think it's a headgasket.

Anyway, I'll keep this thread updated with my findings.

[eric96ser]

Torry, have you tried a compression check? I hate when dealers try to get out of warranty work. I had a local dealer tell me I voided my warranty because I modified my ECU. By modifing my ECU, he was talking about me checking my CES codes. I did a compression check once, and it threw a code. Good luck with all this.

[EZcheese15]

No I haven't. I had the car towed from Helen, GA, where I had VERY limited tools. However, tommorrow I plan on picking the car up and I will be doing compression, leakdown, and using Consult to determine what's wrong. I've got some backup ideas. I think the problem right now is the dealer, not my car.

[QuinGarcia]

You'd better hook up that damn knock sensor, if I was a dealer and had a customer disconnect the knock sensor (which saves the engine from detonating to death) I would be hesitant to warranty it. Why did you disconnect the knock sensor in the first place?

[EZcheese15]

The knock sensor IS hooked up. It's just not bolted to the block. And believe me, I will bolt it back on as soon as I get my car back. The reason I had detached the knock sensor was because with the exhaust and headers, the resonance in the exhaust system was causing the knock sensor to pick up extra vibrations. This was causing the ECU to pull significant amounts of timing out of the car, in turn causing me to loose major HP. I was making less HP to the ground with a ton of bolt-ons than I was when the car was stock. It was pathetic. Anyway, I have more of an update of this story, and it's some what of good news, but I'll post about it more tommorrow.

[UncleBen]

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, I drove the piss out of the car for 30 mins. However, I never over revved it, and only hit the rev limiter like twice. Heh, that's what they're there for anyway, right? I was determined to reproduce the problem, which I did

lmao, good job man. dealers are so stupid. u need to start it up and tell them to get their noses down by the exhaust pipe and inhale one big breath, and then see if they tell you its not your headgasket. if your exhaust even smells like coolant, then u know thats what it has to be. if you can SEE coolant on the cylinders, then, well i mean what is there not to do other than replace your headgasket? i think they are trying to cover for their stupidity, thinking you don't kno what you are talking about, so they tell you a bunch of BS. good luck tho man

[UncleBen]

Torry, have you tried a compression check? I hate when dealers try to get out of warranty work. I had a local dealer tell me I voided my warranty because I modified my ECU. By modifing my ECU, he was talking about me checking my CES codes. I did a compression check once, and it threw a code. Good luck with all this.

hey man i see you are in nashville. what are you doin this saturday, the 16th? we're having a very large NICO meet here in Bowling Green, an hour north of you. you should try and make it up here man. if you are interester, there are directions to where we are meeting under the NICO Meets section. its at the corvette museum, then heading to race at beech bend on the 1/4

[EZcheese15]

I was going to wait untill tommorrow for an update to post, but I'll go ahead right now since I am trying to avoid working.

I called Tom Bollenbaugh today. He is one of the training instructors at the Nissan Atlanta Training Center. My dad used to be one of them, that is how I know Tom. Anyway, this is what he told me to do:

Get my car back tomorrow and look it over myself. Right now I'm 99% confident it is a blown head gasket, but I want to be 100% confident. I will perform all the tests and monitor the amount of coolant I use over the next few days. When I'm 100% confident that it is a blown head gasket, I will take it back to the dealer and have them look at it again. Tom told me to not be afraid to throw out my name, emphasizing my last name (so people recognize me as Dan Skurski's son). He told me the name of one of the better techs there, and said I should request him as well.

If they still claim that it is not a headgasket problem, then I'm going to call Tom back and he will contact corporate. So I'll have corporate on my side if they still refuse to fix it.

Anyway, that is my update, my car is still not fixed, I'm still ticked at the dealer, but I know I have corporate on my side if it comes down to it (which I'm hoping it won't).

[UncleBen]

i hope it doesn't have to come to that, but if it does, at least you have the more powerful of them on your side. stupid dealers......

[eric96ser]

hey man i see you are in nashville. what are you doin this saturday, the 16th? we're having a very large NICO meet here in Bowling Green, an hour north of you. you should try and make it up here man. if you are interester, there are directions to where we are meeting under the NICO Meets section. its at the corvette museum, then heading to race at beech bend on the 1/4

I was at Beech Bend 2 weeks ago. I have some house stuff going on this weekend. Thanks for the heads up. I keep checking that section for other meets.

[EZcheese15]

By the way Eric, I'd be up there if I had a running car (besides my datsun). I came up there for a meet before, it was fun. You should go if you can. If my car miraculously gets fixed by saturday, I'll be there as well (don't count on it though).

[UncleBen]

Torry that would be so awesome if you got to come again. hopefully you won't get any more BS from the dealer and get your friggin car runnin. whats the latest update?

[EZcheese15]

Latest update is I got my car back, still not fixed. Tonight, I ran it hard again so that it started smoking, and I pulled all the plugs to do a compression test. Well, #3 and #4 cylinders were wet, but #1 and #2 had standing coolant in them. It was obviously green. We took tons of pictures. The pictures can be found at http://www.rx7t2.com/torry/coolant_in_cylinders

I have a copy of all the pics on CD, and I am burning a copy for the dealer. I also have a few of the better ones printed out. I am going back to the dealer tommorrow, parking in front, and walking in and talking with the service manager. I'm going to avoid the service drive tommorrow so that I don't get approached by any service writers.

Oh, and to top it off....here is what both invoices so far read:

The first one reads:"customer states that exhaust smells like coolant, and found coolant on spark plugs...check and advise...performed pressure test and block test no coolant leaking inside or outside engine...customer to monitor"

Then, after running the car hard, and bringing it back less than an hour later...the invoice I received the next day read:"customer states that car runs rough and smells rich [which by the way, i did NOT say]...no coolant found on spark plugs....car running very rich...possibly caused by air flow meter or O2 sensor...customer declined further diagnosis"

Now, after reading that, look at the pictures we took tonight. Look at #77 and #94 if nothing else. 77 shows clearly green coolant in the cylinder. 94 clearly shows the steam rising from the cylinders as I cranked the car with the plugs removed. I did a compression check, and compression was good in all 4 cylinders.

Tomorrow I will hopefully have a further update.

[UncleBen]

holy crap. those pics are horrible (for the car i mean). wonder what the dealer will say about those? "uhh yea, we have reason to believe you used a different car in these pics, so uhhh, we can't do anything about it ....."

[EZcheese15]

Well, another update:

I took the car to the dealer again today. I showed a few of the better pictures (printed on paper) to the Service writer. He basically glanced at them and was like "ok." However, one of the techs that was working on the car was standing by us drinking some coffee. He is like "that's the car that is supposed to be burning coolant?" I said yes, and we engaged in conversation. He told me that he, along with a few other master techs, were trying to find the problem but can't. He told me he thinks I have a hairline fracture in the head (which is EXACTLY what I've been thinking lately). I'm glad he didn't say it was my MAF LOL.

But anyway, I told him the conditions under which it happens, and he admitted to have not had the car driven hard when they worked on it. And he agreed with me, that a hairline fracture will NOT be found by doing a compression check. He said they will most likely be pulling the head off this time and magnafluxing it (which I didn't know you could do on an alluminum head, but anyway...). And I also gave him a copy of all the previously mentioned photos I took. I gave him the CD and he said he's gonna look at them.

So anyway, as of right now, I'm happy. Because it sounds like they are seriously gonna take a REAL good inspection on it this time. So I'll post more info when I get it!

[redrocket]

hey thats great Torry I'm glad the techs see it now and not just ****ing with ya.

[eric96ser]

Well, another update:

I took the car to the dealer again today. I showed a few of the better pictures (printed on paper) to the Service writer. He basically glanced at them and was like "ok." However, one of the techs that was working on the car was standing by us drinking some coffee. He is like "that's the car that is supposed to be burning coolant?" I said yes, and we engaged in conversation. He told me that he, along with a few other master techs, were trying to find the problem but can't. He told me he thinks I have a hairline fracture in the head (which is EXACTLY what I've been thinking lately). I'm glad he didn't say it was my MAF LOL.

But anyway, I told him the conditions under which it happens, and he admitted to have not had the car driven hard when they worked on it. And he agreed with me, that a hairline fracture will NOT be found by doing a compression check. He said they will most likely be pulling the head off this time and magnafluxing it (which I didn't know you could do on an alluminum head, but anyway...). And I also gave him a copy of all the previously mentioned photos I took. I gave him the CD and he said he's gonna look at them.

So anyway, as of right now, I'm happy. Because it sounds like they are seriously gonna take a REAL good inspection on it this time. So I'll post more info when I get it!

I was thinking it might be a cracked head. It was strange how compression is fine, but it leaks coolant. I hope they get it fixed soon.

[UncleBen]

i'm glad they are for real gonna check stuff this time also. its about time they got their a.sses in gear and did something about it. i sure wish they would have done it alot sooner so you might coulda made it up to the meet last saturday!

[EZcheese15]

Just to clarify...I don't want to give this dealer a bad name. I believe the techs (because I was told there were a few of them all working on this problem) really did do their job. However, I think they were uninformed of the exact problem by the service writer. The service writer insists it's a fuel problem, but after talking with the tech right in front of him, he seems to have shut his mouth.

So anyway, they are all good guys except for the service writer whom I just do not agree with nor get along with.

[EZcheese15]

Alright, here is the update so far on my car:

The previous dealer could not find the problem. I was advised to take it to a different dealer. So I took it to Mall of Georgia Nissan, where I know most the techs. They had it all last week, and could not find a problem with it. I got it back today, and was told to bring it back tommorrow and bring it in stumbling like it does when it's really hot.

So I'm going to bring it back tommorrow, drive it hard getting there, and I'm supposed to call about 15 mins before I get there. That way Allan Smith (shop foreman) can be on standby, ready to pull the plugs when I come driving in.

So it's still not fixed, still trying to get a dealer to notice the problem, and still frustrated. However, I think I may be making progress.