"need help" s13 Hicas to non hicas subframe swap

[rwlesher]

i have found a few links discussing this matter and to be honest they've thrown me for a loop. obviously i know i need the non hicas subframe. someone said the subframe wont fit the vlsd, but another said it would. alot of back an forth between people about what is an is not necessary. basically i just need to know my basic parts absolutely needed to go non hicas. i dont wanna modify my hicas tie rods. so from my list i have

non hicas subframe
non hicas toe rods
non hicas rear knuckles
non hicas spindles

can the bushings be interchanged?

btw i plan on modifying my ps pump by looping the hicas lines together.

an respectfully saying i would like to hear from guys who have done this or personally seen this done, i dont want advice from some guy talking out his a**. i have an opportunity to get this subframe an if i get it i want it to be done right the first time. so if anyone could provide a list maybe a few pointers and some advice id greatly appreciate it. thanks in advance

[rwlesher]

Ok so hopefully this will help someone else out in the future. I was able to locate a non hicas parts car locally for $350, so I scooped it up and brought it home. The frame/body was s*** so after I pulled everything off of it I cut it down and scrapped it. After parting out what I didn't need or want an scrapping the car I basically got paid a few hundred for taking it off the guys hands. So my non hiCas subframe, ps pump and associated parts cost me $0. I purchased the energy suspension master kit and found the inserts were what I consider junk, so I ordered the s14 poly subframe bushings from es. I burned out my old bushings and used a wire wheel to clean the sleeves. After that I painted them and installed the bushings into the subframe. They fit perfect, nice and snug. I pushed them in by hand then used a c clamp to push in the sleeve. Smooth as butter and they look a hell of a lot better than the original bushings. Remember to use the bushing grease supplied or they will squeak. S14 subframe bushings DO work on S13 subframe w/o any modifications, but you must leave in the sleeves. On a S14 you remove the sleeves. I have all my arms cleaned out and I'm waiting to remove the sleeves so I can install the bushing kit. After that's done ill swap in my VLSD and HICAS rear sway bar then the HICAS subframe will be coming out from under and the non HICAS will be taking it's place. It's that simple. Anything I didn't learn first hand came right here from NICO.

[rwlesher]

[rwlesher]

Ok so I finished installing my bushing kit in the rear. JABBERWOCKY confirmed that all the outer sleeves need to be removed prior to installing the bushings. These things were a pain in the a**, but I kept my eye on the end result and they came out great. I used a press for most and a bench vise for the RLCAs. They tend to wanna shift on you while pressing in, just keep at it and eventually they will work themselves in. Working the edges in while keeping them centered helps, also an extra hand. Today I'm pressing in B12 (89 Sentra) Front Ball Joints into my RLCAs. My car currently still has the HICAS Subframe in it so needless to say I'm excited to finish up with the subframe swap. My car had really poor handing. a** end shifting over bumps, experienced a lot of wheel hop, tension rod bushings were literally falling out, this was a good investment for my 22 year old car. When I get the subframes side by side I will note the differences so the next guy will know what parts are different and necessary to do it. Through my research I found a lot of contradicting information so I feel it's time to set it straight. Although I suggest getting the complete subframe, can't go wrong there. This isn't a step by step guide but I feel if you have the skills to jump in the basic info should be enough to get you through it.

[rwlesher]

[rwlesher]

I finished my subframe swap yesterday. It took me the whole day to take out all the hicas lines drop the frame and install the non hicas subframe. I used my vlsd and hicas sway bar. Everything bolted up with no problems.









I used this picture as a guide to locating the HICAS components for removal although it's pretty simple just by looking under the car.



Now the differences in rear suspension.....

The HICAS Frame, lacks the mounting bracket





The HICAS spindle has a bushing with a stud where tie rod mounts, the Non HICAS has a regular bushing.

So I would say at least you need:
Spindle
Toe arms
Non HICAS Subframe

The upper control arm, lower control arm and traction rod all seem to be the same between the two. The only difference being toe arms (non HICAS) and tie rods (HICAS) and they way they are connected to the spindles and subframes.

[rwlesher]

I haven't swapped out my front bushings (waiting to buy ball joints) so the front still rides a little rough but the rear handles amazing. When I get down on her the a** end sinks down a little but gets going with no wheel hop or vibration. I'm very happy with my purchase from DIVERSE SUSPENSION. They were very helpful when it came to questions. I was missing the 15mm sway bushings initially when I purchased the kit, they sent a set immediately. The kit sat around 6-7 months before I had time to install it and one rear upper control arm bushing was missing. I was told because of the timeframe it might make it hard to replace, but a day or two later it was shipped out and I received it within a week. I'm very happy with the quality of the product and the service that I received. Highly recommended! The only thing I can say is the instructions where a little hard to understand when it came to removing the shells, but I found a fellow NICO User who had performed this task and he was generous enough to point me in the right direction.

[rwlesher]

I've been busy with work lately but I finally got around to getting my balljoints and tie rods + ends. I also picked up a set of used JIC coilovers I bought from eBay.

[thirty.two]

thank you for this thread. super helpful!

Before:

non hicas subframe
non hicas toe rods
non hicas rear knuckles
non hicas spindles

After:

So I would say at least you need:
Spindle
Toe arms
Non HICAS Subframe

didn't realize the spindle would need to be replaced as well!
safe to assume toe rods (mentioned in original post) and toe arms are the same thing?
didn't end up needing rear knuckles after all?

you say "at least you need", are there other parts beyond the minimum that you think would be good to do?

The upper control arm, lower control arm and traction rod all seem to be the same between the two. The only difference being toe arms (non HICAS) and tie rods (HICAS) and they way they are connected to the spindles and subframes.

this is probably a dumb question but do you mean to say that between HICAS vs non-HICAS, the non-HICAS uses toe arms not tie rods and the HICAS uses tie rods but no toe arms? i don't have my car yet so i can't check, but im still also trying to sort out all the various suspension components on these.

thank you again!

[rwlesher]

yeah that's what I meant. It's hard to keep track posting from my phone. It's not in depth but if your familiar with the car then you should get the idea of where I'm going.

When I said at least basically the minimum parts required to successfully swap subframes and those are
Non hicas
subframe
Toe arms
Spindle

For clean power steering setup I used
Non hicas ps cooling line, pump and got a stainless line to replace that leaky cluster f***. Rides amazing compared to before.
I would also consider that a necessity in this swap. But there's ways to make due.